XMPP Council - 2021-11-03

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  125. jonas’

    projection indicates I'm not going to be here at meeting time, but you've got an agenda to work with I think :)

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  128. Zash


  129. daniel

    it's time

  130. Zash

    1) Roll Call

  131. daniel

    i'm here

  132. Zash

    I'm ... chairing?

  133. daniel


  134. Zash

    dwd, ?

  135. Ge0rG

    I'm semi there

  136. jonas’


  137. Zash

    2 and a half?

  138. jonas’

    I'm actually here

  139. Zash

    wanna take over?

  140. jonas’

    so I can also take the chair if you like

  141. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  142. dwd

    I've a meeting overrun but I'm vaguely here.

  143. jonas’

    please note any amendments to the agenda inline

  144. jonas’

    3) Editor's Update

  145. jonas’

    I see that we have XEP-0313 stable

  146. jonas’

    congrats again to MattJ and Kev and everyone involved in this :)

  147. dwd

    (I am now fully here)

  148. jonas’


  149. jonas’

    4) Items for Voting

  150. jonas’

    4a) Decide on advancement of XEP-0459 (Compliance Suites 2022) URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0459.html

  151. jonas’

    there was an update

  152. Ge0rG

    This has been an awesome year for the XSF

  153. Zash

    I was just looking at the update

  154. Ge0rG

    +1. I don't like the removal of "Core" very much, but not going to die on that hill

  155. daniel


  156. Zash

    Was that all that came out of what discussions there were?

  157. jonas’

    +1, not going to die on any CS-2022 hill :)

  158. Ge0rG

    Zash: it was all that was not contested

  159. Zash


  160. dwd

    +1, why not.

  161. jonas’

    best rationale ever

  162. jonas’


  163. jonas’

    thanks everyone :)

  164. jonas’

    5) Date of Next

  165. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  166. Zash

    +1w wfm

  167. dwd


  168. daniel

    +1w wfm

  169. jonas’

    did we lose Ge0rG ?

  170. jonas’

    6) AOB

  171. jonas’

    we've got a fresh application for council

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  173. jonas’

    which is nice

  174. dwd


  175. jonas’

    (6a) Election Season)

  176. Zash

    to council, or not to council, that is the question

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  178. dwd

    I'd feel happier if we had more candidates with server experience.

  179. jonas’


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  181. daniel

    > I'd feel happier if we had more candidates

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  183. dwd

    I wonder if we can persuade Holger or Guus to throw their hat in the ring?

  184. jonas’


  185. dwd

    daniel, That, too.

  186. jonas’

    Holger for council

  187. jonas’

    dwd, I'm not sure actually

  188. jonas’

    abotu the "more candidates"

  189. dwd

    jonas’, More than 4 would be very useful.

  190. jonas’

    well, yes

  191. jonas’

    but not more than five necessarily

  192. dwd

    jonas’, Well, elections are better when contested, I feel.

  193. jonas’

    I think that makes it less likely for newcomers to join the Council

  194. jonas’

    Marvin would be well-suited, but he's not managed to get in twice

  195. jonas’

    Marvin would be well-suited in my opinion, but he's not managed to get in twice

  196. Zash

    More of a board question, but have we considered election preparation committees?

  197. jonas’

    and I'm not sure how much of that is because some of us get the bonus of "have done the job before"

  198. Zash

    Or whatever it's called

  199. dwd

    Zash, What are those?

  200. Zash

    Group responsible for putting forward a proposal for boards and the like.

  201. dwd

    Zash, Like the IETF's NomCom? Or something else?

  202. jonas’


  203. Zash

    With consideration beyond individual popularity, like having a group that would work together, be representative of the membership or whatever.

  204. jonas’


  205. Zash

    Common in all sorts of organizations here

  206. daniel

    in a perfect world: yes. in the reality of the situation the xsf is in: maybe not

  207. dwd

    Zash, Yes, but then you need to decide who the NomCom are. The IETF does it randomly based on a pool of eligible people, who turn out to also be the people able to attend most meetings (which cost quite a bit).

  208. daniel

    i think we have a problem motivating people. and then you'd have to motivate a group of people to motivate another group of people

  209. dwd

    I think the major problem of the XSF is simply that there are not that many people active these days.

  210. Zash

    We're Stable™

  211. dwd

    (Or, what daniel said)

  212. daniel

    and not because our organization is bad. but because life is hard. and work and stuff

  213. Zash

    But yeah, that's not a solution to the motivation or lack of candidates problem

  214. jonas’

    motivation may be increased if people feel they can actually participate where it matters more

  215. jonas’

    (e.g. council)

  216. Zash

    But it might help, if their job is to hunt down candidates 🙂

  217. dwd

    Zash, And FWIW, I do think it'd be better sometimes to vote for a council in entirety, rather than candidates individually.

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  219. dwd

    Zash, And to your original point, yes, this is largely a Board problem, but motivation and energy there is even lower.

  220. jonas’


  221. jonas’

    let's wrap this up I guess

  222. jonas’

    any other AOB?

  223. daniel

    but yes someone ask Holger and Guus

  224. jonas’

    assuming no

  225. jonas’

    7) Ite Meeting Est

  226. jonas’

    Thanks everyone, Thanks Tedd!

  227. Zash

    Thanks jonas’, all

  228. dwd

    Thanks, jonas’.

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  239. Kev

    FWIW, I feel guilty every year that I don't stand for Council, I just simply don't have the cycles I could devote to doing a decent job.

  240. jonas’

    wow, Kev

  241. jonas’

    don't feel guilty

  242. jonas’

    please :)

  243. Kev

    I feel like I've mostly abandoned the XSF $dayjob has gotten more and more stressful, and that doesn't feel fair on the people still putting in the hours to keep stuff running.

  244. dwd

    Unless that'll make you stand. In which case, bring on the guilt.

  245. Kev

    I feel like I've mostly abandoned the XSF since $dayjob has gotten more and more stressful, and that doesn't feel fair on the people still putting in the hours to keep stuff running.

  246. jonas’

    Kev: you have no obligation to serve the XSF for lifetime, from my perspective

  247. jonas’

    I've seen you contribute a lot of stuff and there is nothing wrong or unfair with moving on one way or another

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  262. Sam

    Council this year has been really good, I've been very impressed. Thanks all!

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  281. Ge0rG

    I've been struggling with keeping up at least with the most important council tasks, and I think I mostly managed, but I still have a bad conscience and I can't afford to do more, like chairing

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