XMPP Council - 2022-01-12

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  142. moparisthebest hello ! apologies about last week, just the stupid alarm didn't go off, dumbest excuse possible
  143. daniel Hi
  144. jonas’ well, better for a council meeting than, say, for your mother's 50th birthday
  145. daniel It's time again
  146. Wojtek has joined
  147. jonas’ (completely made up example about calendar alerts not working. ha. ha.)
  148. daniel 1) Roll call
  149. jonas’ is here
  150. larma 👋️
  151. Ge0rG Good morning!
  152. daniel i'll give you some time while i very quickly grab a coffee
  153. jonas’ good luck
  154. moparisthebest let's time him to see what he calls quick
  155. jonas’ there must be some pun in there with quicksy, daniel, and calling, but I can't find it
  156. moparisthebest also something about coffee and java...
  157. jonas’ so many possibilities should be there
  158. daniel i see you've been able to entertain yourself without me
  159. daniel 2) agenda bashing
  160. daniel there is a late addition via pep and jonas’
  161. daniel 3) editors update
  162. daniel a) An Update to XEP-0353 (Jingle Message Initiation) has been released. (https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0353.html)
  163. daniel cool update btw thanks to thilo for writing that up
  164. daniel 4) items for voting
  165. daniel a) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1140
  166. daniel there is a normative change in there technically
  167. jonas’ yes
  168. jonas’ hence it goes by us :)
  169. larma lgtm +1
  170. jonas’ I am +1, any other behaviour than the one described doesn't make sense
  171. daniel i personally thing it's fine. because what else would you do with those headers
  172. daniel i'd consider every implementation that doesn’t include the headers buggy
  173. jonas’ it also tightens down the corner case of multiple values for a single header being present
  174. daniel so +1 from me
  175. Ge0rG do we have a rendered delta? ;)
  176. moparisthebest I think some HTTP libs don't allow you to specify header order
  177. jonas’ Ge0rG, I find the github diff reasonably well readable
  178. jonas’ moparisthebest, order of values, not order of headers
  179. moparisthebest but that's a them-problem I reckon, so also +1 from me
  180. jonas’ oh
  181. jonas’ moparisthebest, that's a very good point
  182. jonas’ -1
  183. daniel > I think some HTTP libs don't allow you to specify header order that crossed my mind too
  184. Ge0rG I have a small nitpick about "These headers MUST be included in the HTTP PUT request" - it's not clear whether it relates to the headers that are in the XML or to the three allowed header names.
  185. jonas’ -1: The wording has a bug which can easily be misread as "the headers' order must be preserved", while the intent was to preserve the order of values of a given header, if multiple values are given
  186. jonas’ Ge0rG, yep, that was another bit
  187. jonas’ I'll propose an updated wording in a minute
  188. jonas’ pep., I'll hijack your PR if I may
  189. moparisthebest oh, well yea it would be best if header order wasn't required, especially if it wasn't intended
  190. Ge0rG also how do you sign a HTTP header?
  191. moparisthebest presumably you sign the header's value, but again, some wording
  192. Ge0rG there are schemes where signatures are sent out-of-band, and that wouldn't be compatible
  193. jonas’ proposed fix for the wording: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1140/commits/85ff424a9e2aab8a4aab56fcd490c341ae50b3a5
  194. jonas’ Ge0rG, there are standards for that, let's not go into that ;)
  195. larma thanks jonas’ for the hotfix 🙂
  196. jonas’ Ge0rG, I'm sure HTTP header signing schemes are compatible with header reordering, as relative header order is AFAIK not guaranteed
  197. Ge0rG jonas’: there be dragons
  198. jonas’ HTTP's dragons, not ours :)
  199. moparisthebest ok now I'm no-hesitation +1 :D
  200. jonas’ I'll be +1 with my patch
  201. daniel ok. i'll restart voting *with* jonas' fix
  202. jonas’ Ge0rG, we already tighten down the available headers, which restricts what can be done anyway
  203. larma +1
  204. Ge0rG jonas’: I'm +1 with your patch
  205. jonas’ Ge0rG, tell that to daniel, I'm not chair anymore :)
  206. Ge0rG jonas’: I'm pretty sure that most http libraries won't honor the order of equally named headers
  207. daniel +1 here as well
  208. Ge0rG daniel: +1 ;)
  209. daniel i recorded your vote Ge0rG
  210. moparisthebest +1 again
  211. jonas’ Ge0rG, let's not get into that here
  212. daniel ok great. moving on
  213. daniel b) XEP-0030: remove security considerations preventing requests on a bare JID (https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1145)
  214. daniel i'm on list for that
  215. jonas’ note that there's already a thread on list
  216. jonas’ but I, too, am on-list
  217. jonas’ haven't gotten around to read it yet
  218. moparisthebest also on-list, worries me a bit
  219. jonas’ (the thread has the subject [XEP-0030] we can't get basic information on a bare JID without presence subscription, it's also linked from the PR)
  220. jonas’ ack, -1 is my first inclination, too
  221. Ge0rG on-list
  222. jonas’ but I'll read the rationale first, so please don't record that yet
  223. larma on-list
  224. daniel ok thank you
  225. daniel 5) Pending votes
  226. daniel Ge0rG and moparisthebest are pending on the four xeps proposed last week
  227. Ge0rG Yup.
  228. daniel note the pubsub namespace one has technically already been vetoed
  229. moparisthebest I'm +1 on all of them except Proposed XMPP Extension: PubSub Namespaces where I'm -1
  230. jonas’ I'm not sure what I voted on PubSub Namespaces, but the discussion has confirmed my perception that it should be -1 until fixed up as discussed on list
  231. Ge0rG I'm still on-list
  232. larma I'm 0 on pubsub-ns, I feel there is need for clarification, but this is not how it should be
  233. daniel jonas’, i did record a -1 for you
  234. jonas’ excellent
  235. jonas’ speaking of, can I get a link to the current spreadsheet of doom? I lost it somehow :)
  236. jonas’ it's useful for editor work
  237. moparisthebest for logs sake I'm +1 on: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/compatibility-fallback.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/call-invites.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/replies.html
  238. moparisthebest https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aA6tQJ8XJ_UjCKrcJ6CyG-l3L5xETSlBrPRR-37Z_1E/edit#gid=0
  239. jonas’ moparisthebest, thanks :)
  240. daniel moparisthebest, yes thank you i recorded that
  241. moparisthebest also I swear I voted -1 on https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1126 but it was rejected already so meh :)
  242. daniel 6) Date of next
  243. daniel +1w wfm
  244. jonas’ +1w wfm most likely
  245. moparisthebest good for me
  246. larma wfm as well
  247. Ge0rG +1W WFM, but I'll be on vacation the following two weeks
  248. daniel 7) AOB
  249. jonas’ covid19: "well, we'll see about that"
  250. jonas’ no AOB from me
  251. moparisthebest no AOB
  252. larma same here
  253. daniel 8) Close
  254. daniel Thank you everyone
  255. larma Thanks daniel 🙂
  256. jonas’ Thanks daniel :)
  257. moparisthebest thanks!
  258. moparisthebest as an aside, the http header thing was fresh in my mind, because curl preserves both header order and case, and they recently added a backend using hyper (rust http lib) which preserves neither, which curl considered a bug :)
  259. larma What else would I use to craft special http requests than curl. I would consider this a bug as well if they lost those features...
  260. jonas’ larma, openssl s_client ;)
  261. moparisthebest I just use curl for virtually everything http based
  262. larma jonas’: that's already my XMPP client of choice :)
  263. jonas’ larma, see, it's a multi-protocol client ;)
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  269. moparisthebest larma, great job on all these XEPs by the way, seeing XEPs created with actual public code behind them is infinitely better than "in theory" XEPs
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  271. pep. “jonas’> pep., I'll hijack your PR if I may” < Sure.
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