XMPP Council - 2022-01-12

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  142. moparisthebest

    hello ! apologies about last week, just the stupid alarm didn't go off, dumbest excuse possible

  143. daniel


  144. jonas’

    well, better for a council meeting than, say, for your mother's 50th birthday

  145. daniel

    It's time again

  146. Wojtek has joined

  147. jonas’

    (completely made up example about calendar alerts not working. ha. ha.)

  148. daniel

    1) Roll call

  149. jonas’ is here

  150. larma


  151. Ge0rG

    Good morning!

  152. daniel

    i'll give you some time while i very quickly grab a coffee

  153. jonas’

    good luck

  154. moparisthebest

    let's time him to see what he calls quick

  155. jonas’

    there must be some pun in there with quicksy, daniel, and calling, but I can't find it

  156. moparisthebest

    also something about coffee and java...

  157. jonas’

    so many possibilities should be there

  158. daniel

    i see you've been able to entertain yourself without me

  159. daniel

    2) agenda bashing

  160. daniel

    there is a late addition via pep and jonas’

  161. daniel

    3) editors update

  162. daniel

    a) An Update to XEP-0353 (Jingle Message Initiation) has been released. (https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0353.html)

  163. daniel

    cool update btw thanks to thilo for writing that up

  164. daniel

    4) items for voting

  165. daniel

    a) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1140

  166. daniel

    there is a normative change in there technically

  167. jonas’


  168. jonas’

    hence it goes by us :)

  169. larma

    lgtm +1

  170. jonas’

    I am +1, any other behaviour than the one described doesn't make sense

  171. daniel

    i personally thing it's fine. because what else would you do with those headers

  172. daniel

    i'd consider every implementation that doesn’t include the headers buggy

  173. jonas’

    it also tightens down the corner case of multiple values for a single header being present

  174. daniel

    so +1 from me

  175. Ge0rG

    do we have a rendered delta? ;)

  176. moparisthebest

    I think some HTTP libs don't allow you to specify header order

  177. jonas’

    Ge0rG, I find the github diff reasonably well readable

  178. jonas’

    moparisthebest, order of values, not order of headers

  179. moparisthebest

    but that's a them-problem I reckon, so also +1 from me

  180. jonas’


  181. jonas’

    moparisthebest, that's a very good point

  182. jonas’


  183. daniel

    > I think some HTTP libs don't allow you to specify header order that crossed my mind too

  184. Ge0rG

    I have a small nitpick about "These headers MUST be included in the HTTP PUT request" - it's not clear whether it relates to the headers that are in the XML or to the three allowed header names.

  185. jonas’

    -1: The wording has a bug which can easily be misread as "the headers' order must be preserved", while the intent was to preserve the order of values of a given header, if multiple values are given

  186. jonas’

    Ge0rG, yep, that was another bit

  187. jonas’

    I'll propose an updated wording in a minute

  188. jonas’

    pep., I'll hijack your PR if I may

  189. moparisthebest

    oh, well yea it would be best if header order wasn't required, especially if it wasn't intended

  190. Ge0rG

    also how do you sign a HTTP header?

  191. moparisthebest

    presumably you sign the header's value, but again, some wording

  192. Ge0rG

    there are schemes where signatures are sent out-of-band, and that wouldn't be compatible

  193. jonas’

    proposed fix for the wording: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1140/commits/85ff424a9e2aab8a4aab56fcd490c341ae50b3a5

  194. jonas’

    Ge0rG, there are standards for that, let's not go into that ;)

  195. larma

    thanks jonas’ for the hotfix 🙂

  196. jonas’

    Ge0rG, I'm sure HTTP header signing schemes are compatible with header reordering, as relative header order is AFAIK not guaranteed

  197. Ge0rG

    jonas’: there be dragons

  198. jonas’

    HTTP's dragons, not ours :)

  199. moparisthebest

    ok now I'm no-hesitation +1 :D

  200. jonas’

    I'll be +1 with my patch

  201. daniel

    ok. i'll restart voting *with* jonas' fix

  202. jonas’

    Ge0rG, we already tighten down the available headers, which restricts what can be done anyway

  203. larma


  204. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm +1 with your patch

  205. jonas’

    Ge0rG, tell that to daniel, I'm not chair anymore :)

  206. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm pretty sure that most http libraries won't honor the order of equally named headers

  207. daniel

    +1 here as well

  208. Ge0rG

    daniel: +1 ;)

  209. daniel

    i recorded your vote Ge0rG

  210. moparisthebest

    +1 again

  211. jonas’

    Ge0rG, let's not get into that here

  212. daniel

    ok great. moving on

  213. daniel

    b) XEP-0030: remove security considerations preventing requests on a bare JID (https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1145)

  214. daniel

    i'm on list for that

  215. jonas’

    note that there's already a thread on list

  216. jonas’

    but I, too, am on-list

  217. jonas’

    haven't gotten around to read it yet

  218. moparisthebest

    also on-list, worries me a bit

  219. jonas’

    (the thread has the subject [XEP-0030] we can't get basic information on a bare JID without presence subscription, it's also linked from the PR)

  220. jonas’

    ack, -1 is my first inclination, too

  221. Ge0rG


  222. jonas’

    but I'll read the rationale first, so please don't record that yet

  223. larma


  224. daniel

    ok thank you

  225. daniel

    5) Pending votes

  226. daniel

    Ge0rG and moparisthebest are pending on the four xeps proposed last week

  227. Ge0rG


  228. daniel

    note the pubsub namespace one has technically already been vetoed

  229. moparisthebest

    I'm +1 on all of them except Proposed XMPP Extension: PubSub Namespaces where I'm -1

  230. jonas’

    I'm not sure what I voted on PubSub Namespaces, but the discussion has confirmed my perception that it should be -1 until fixed up as discussed on list

  231. Ge0rG

    I'm still on-list

  232. larma

    I'm 0 on pubsub-ns, I feel there is need for clarification, but this is not how it should be

  233. daniel

    jonas’, i did record a -1 for you

  234. jonas’


  235. jonas’

    speaking of, can I get a link to the current spreadsheet of doom? I lost it somehow :)

  236. jonas’

    it's useful for editor work

  237. moparisthebest

    for logs sake I'm +1 on: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/compatibility-fallback.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/call-invites.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/replies.html

  238. moparisthebest


  239. jonas’

    moparisthebest, thanks :)

  240. daniel

    moparisthebest, yes thank you i recorded that

  241. moparisthebest

    also I swear I voted -1 on https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1126 but it was rejected already so meh :)

  242. daniel

    6) Date of next

  243. daniel

    +1w wfm

  244. jonas’

    +1w wfm most likely

  245. moparisthebest

    good for me

  246. larma

    wfm as well

  247. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM, but I'll be on vacation the following two weeks

  248. daniel

    7) AOB

  249. jonas’

    covid19: "well, we'll see about that"

  250. jonas’

    no AOB from me

  251. moparisthebest

    no AOB

  252. larma

    same here

  253. daniel

    8) Close

  254. daniel

    Thank you everyone

  255. larma

    Thanks daniel 🙂

  256. jonas’

    Thanks daniel :)

  257. moparisthebest


  258. moparisthebest

    as an aside, the http header thing was fresh in my mind, because curl preserves both header order and case, and they recently added a backend using hyper (rust http lib) which preserves neither, which curl considered a bug :)

  259. larma

    What else would I use to craft special http requests than curl. I would consider this a bug as well if they lost those features...

  260. jonas’

    larma, openssl s_client ;)

  261. moparisthebest

    I just use curl for virtually everything http based

  262. larma

    jonas’: that's already my XMPP client of choice :)

  263. jonas’

    larma, see, it's a multi-protocol client ;)

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  269. moparisthebest

    larma, great job on all these XEPs by the way, seeing XEPs created with actual public code behind them is infinitely better than "in theory" XEPs

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  271. pep.

    “jonas’> pep., I'll hijack your PR if I may” < Sure.

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