XMPP Council - 2022-06-22

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  145. daniel 30 minute warning
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  147. moparisthebest I'll still be here
  148. jonas’ I probably will
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  150. Ge0rG good evening!
  151. jonas’ bagfuiaredufigaesduifgae
  152. moparisthebest o/
  153. moparisthebest jonas’, gesundheit
  154. daniel It’s time
  155. daniel 1) Roll call
  156. Ge0rG ,o/
  157. daniel do we have larma?
  158. larma Not really
  159. daniel i guess not?
  160. daniel 2) Agenda bashing
  161. daniel i didn’t send out an explicit agenda for today; but we are going to use last weeks agenda
  162. daniel 3) Editors update
  163. daniel a) Proposed XMPP Extension: WebSocket S2S (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html)
  164. daniel b) Proposed XMPP Extension: XMPP over QUIC (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xmpp-over-quic.html)
  165. larma Had no time to read but love the initiative :)
  166. daniel quick reminder to the editor (no rush I know you are on holiday) that we wanted to start a last call
  167. daniel for 215
  168. daniel 4) Items for voting
  169. daniel b) Proposed XMPP Extension: XMPP over QUIC (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xmpp-over-quic.html)
  170. jonas’ daniel, thanks, I noted it in the spreadsheet of doom and will hopefully remember to look at it next week
  171. moparisthebest +1 (obviously)
  172. Ge0rG on-list
  173. jonas’ why do we start with 4b?
  174. daniel as a developer I understand the "just do everything rfc xyz is doing except" but I'm not sure this is correct form
  175. daniel copy paste error. sorry
  176. jonas’ I like the idea, +1.
  177. daniel ignore the above feedback because that's for 4a
  178. daniel i’m +1 on xmpp over quic
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  180. moparisthebest the risk of copy+pasting from the other RFC is that something is missed or wrong, I guess
  181. daniel i'm assuming larma is on list too
  182. daniel a) Proposed XMPP Extension: WebSocket S2S (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html)
  183. moparisthebest +1
  184. daniel now my feedback applies: as a developer I understand the "just do everything rfc xyz is doing except" but I'm not sure this is correct form
  185. jonas’ I... I have ethical issues with this and I'll need to ponder on-list.
  186. jonas’ A proper section on "motivation" may convince me, but I note that this is missing completely.
  187. moparisthebest I think I put that https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html#usecases
  188. Ge0rG on-list
  189. jonas’ I don't scroll that far to find motivation :-).
  190. daniel does anyone else feel that this should rather go into a new version of rfc 7395?
  191. jonas’ ah that too, yes
  192. daniel and/or be an informational xep?
  193. daniel plus it creates ietfs namespaces?
  194. moparisthebest eventually they should probably both be RFCs, I'm completly unfamiliar with that process though
  195. daniel which i think we are not allowed to do?
  196. jonas’ we're most certainly not
  197. daniel moparisthebest, i understand that that's why I was offering "informational" xep as a cheap alternative
  198. moparisthebest it's that or live with a tmp namespace forever :)
  199. daniel with a different namespace
  200. jonas’ moparisthebest, could also use urn:xmpp:...?
  201. jonas’ (which we own)
  202. daniel I think in it's current form I have to be -1
  203. moparisthebest could also just use jabber:server ? :P
  204. moparisthebest re: "just do what RFC X says" I think there is prior art there, ie https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7858 which says "just do TLS like RFC X and then just do DNS like RFC Y"
  205. moparisthebest daniel, just based on the namespace or what else?
  206. daniel a combination of the namespace thing (which would be an easy) fix. and it just not feeling right. I'm not familiar with the "prior art" you mentioned. I guess i should read into that
  207. daniel maybe "on list" until i checked that out
  208. moparisthebest re: namespace any objections to jabber:server ?
  209. daniel but fwiw I don’t think creating an RFC (with your name not a number. is there a term for experimental rfc?) is super hard
  210. moparisthebest yea I gotta look into that one day...
  211. daniel that just feels like a more proper way to handle that. or as I said make it informational to get around the hacky nature
  212. daniel but i also don’t want to be the only one blocking this. so let's see how the other votes turn out
  213. jonas’ I'm happy to be a second blocker if you need one ;)
  214. moparisthebest just making it informational so we can ignore things seems like a hack
  215. jonas’ yeah, I agree on that moparisthebest
  216. jonas’ I don't think making it informational solves anything here
  217. daniel ok; but let's move on. i'll read up on the other rfcs moparisthebest mentioned and vote on list
  218. daniel 5) Pending votes none
  219. daniel 6) Date of next
  220. jonas’ +1w wfm
  221. daniel +1w wfm
  222. moparisthebest +1w wfm
  223. daniel 7) AOB
  224. jonas’ none from me
  225. daniel 8) Close thank you all
  226. jonas’ thanks daniel
  227. moparisthebest thanks all !
  228. Kev Various things have migrated from XEP to RFC, or back again, in the past, FWIW.
  229. Kev So to my mind unless Council/XSF lacks the ability to review it sensibly (which is sometimes the case with security things), I don't think something starting as a XEP and migrating over would be the end of the world.
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  232. moparisthebest thanks Kev that's how I'd prefer to do it anyway :)
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  314. moparisthebest re: s2s websocket namespace, I do include the contact of who to register namespaces with on there, unsure if it works like ALPN where the editor just rings them up and they register it or not though
  315. Zash The starting point to look for who's responsible for some urn:* would be https://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-namespaces/urn-namespaces.xhtml
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  329. moparisthebest So it's just expert review and look who the team leader is: > Peter Saint-Andre
  330. moparisthebest We can probably contact that guy!!!! :)
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  333. moparisthebest Turns out jabber: isn't registered, we are all breaking the law!
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  335. Zash Yeah, it's from before anyone knew about needing to register these things.
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  337. Zash I feel like I've seen mention of it somewhere as a thing that was used without being registered, hysterical raisins etc.
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  339. moparisthebest > To date, the XML > namespaces defined within the Jabber/XMPP community have used names > of the form "jabber:*" (deprecated since early 2002) https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4854.html
  340. moparisthebest Oopsies
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