XMPP Council - 2022-06-22

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  145. daniel

    30 minute warning

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  147. moparisthebest

    I'll still be here

  148. jonas’

    I probably will

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  150. Ge0rG

    good evening!

  151. jonas’


  152. moparisthebest


  153. moparisthebest

    jonas’, gesundheit

  154. daniel

    It’s time

  155. daniel

    1) Roll call

  156. Ge0rG ,o/

  157. daniel

    do we have larma?

  158. larma

    Not really

  159. daniel

    i guess not?

  160. daniel

    2) Agenda bashing

  161. daniel

    i didn’t send out an explicit agenda for today; but we are going to use last weeks agenda

  162. daniel

    3) Editors update

  163. daniel

    a) Proposed XMPP Extension: WebSocket S2S (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html)

  164. daniel

    b) Proposed XMPP Extension: XMPP over QUIC (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xmpp-over-quic.html)

  165. larma

    Had no time to read but love the initiative :)

  166. daniel

    quick reminder to the editor (no rush I know you are on holiday) that we wanted to start a last call

  167. daniel

    for 215

  168. daniel

    4) Items for voting

  169. daniel

    b) Proposed XMPP Extension: XMPP over QUIC (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xmpp-over-quic.html)

  170. jonas’

    daniel, thanks, I noted it in the spreadsheet of doom and will hopefully remember to look at it next week

  171. moparisthebest

    +1 (obviously)

  172. Ge0rG


  173. jonas’

    why do we start with 4b?

  174. daniel

    as a developer I understand the "just do everything rfc xyz is doing except" but I'm not sure this is correct form

  175. daniel

    copy paste error. sorry

  176. jonas’

    I like the idea, +1.

  177. daniel

    ignore the above feedback because that's for 4a

  178. daniel

    i’m +1 on xmpp over quic

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  180. moparisthebest

    the risk of copy+pasting from the other RFC is that something is missed or wrong, I guess

  181. daniel

    i'm assuming larma is on list too

  182. daniel

    a) Proposed XMPP Extension: WebSocket S2S (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html)

  183. moparisthebest


  184. daniel

    now my feedback applies: as a developer I understand the "just do everything rfc xyz is doing except" but I'm not sure this is correct form

  185. jonas’

    I... I have ethical issues with this and I'll need to ponder on-list.

  186. jonas’

    A proper section on "motivation" may convince me, but I note that this is missing completely.

  187. moparisthebest

    I think I put that https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html#usecases

  188. Ge0rG


  189. jonas’

    I don't scroll that far to find motivation :-).

  190. daniel

    does anyone else feel that this should rather go into a new version of rfc 7395?

  191. jonas’

    ah that too, yes

  192. daniel

    and/or be an informational xep?

  193. daniel

    plus it creates ietfs namespaces?

  194. moparisthebest

    eventually they should probably both be RFCs, I'm completly unfamiliar with that process though

  195. daniel

    which i think we are not allowed to do?

  196. jonas’

    we're most certainly not

  197. daniel

    moparisthebest, i understand that that's why I was offering "informational" xep as a cheap alternative

  198. moparisthebest

    it's that or live with a tmp namespace forever :)

  199. daniel

    with a different namespace

  200. jonas’

    moparisthebest, could also use urn:xmpp:...?

  201. jonas’

    (which we own)

  202. daniel

    I think in it's current form I have to be -1

  203. moparisthebest

    could also just use jabber:server ? :P

  204. moparisthebest

    re: "just do what RFC X says" I think there is prior art there, ie https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7858 which says "just do TLS like RFC X and then just do DNS like RFC Y"

  205. moparisthebest

    daniel, just based on the namespace or what else?

  206. daniel

    a combination of the namespace thing (which would be an easy) fix. and it just not feeling right. I'm not familiar with the "prior art" you mentioned. I guess i should read into that

  207. daniel

    maybe "on list" until i checked that out

  208. moparisthebest

    re: namespace any objections to jabber:server ?

  209. daniel

    but fwiw I don’t think creating an RFC (with your name not a number. is there a term for experimental rfc?) is super hard

  210. moparisthebest

    yea I gotta look into that one day...

  211. daniel

    that just feels like a more proper way to handle that. or as I said make it informational to get around the hacky nature

  212. daniel

    but i also don’t want to be the only one blocking this. so let's see how the other votes turn out

  213. jonas’

    I'm happy to be a second blocker if you need one ;)

  214. moparisthebest

    just making it informational so we can ignore things seems like a hack

  215. jonas’

    yeah, I agree on that moparisthebest

  216. jonas’

    I don't think making it informational solves anything here

  217. daniel

    ok; but let's move on. i'll read up on the other rfcs moparisthebest mentioned and vote on list

  218. daniel

    5) Pending votes none

  219. daniel

    6) Date of next

  220. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  221. daniel

    +1w wfm

  222. moparisthebest

    +1w wfm

  223. daniel

    7) AOB

  224. jonas’

    none from me

  225. daniel

    8) Close thank you all

  226. jonas’

    thanks daniel

  227. moparisthebest

    thanks all !

  228. Kev

    Various things have migrated from XEP to RFC, or back again, in the past, FWIW.

  229. Kev

    So to my mind unless Council/XSF lacks the ability to review it sensibly (which is sometimes the case with security things), I don't think something starting as a XEP and migrating over would be the end of the world.

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  232. moparisthebest

    thanks Kev that's how I'd prefer to do it anyway :)

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  314. moparisthebest

    re: s2s websocket namespace, I do include the contact of who to register namespaces with on there, unsure if it works like ALPN where the editor just rings them up and they register it or not though

  315. Zash

    The starting point to look for who's responsible for some urn:* would be https://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-namespaces/urn-namespaces.xhtml

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  329. moparisthebest

    So it's just expert review and look who the team leader is: > Peter Saint-Andre

  330. moparisthebest

    We can probably contact that guy!!!! :)

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  333. moparisthebest

    Turns out jabber: isn't registered, we are all breaking the law!

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  335. Zash

    Yeah, it's from before anyone knew about needing to register these things.

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  337. Zash

    I feel like I've seen mention of it somewhere as a thing that was used without being registered, hysterical raisins etc.

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  339. moparisthebest

    > To date, the XML > namespaces defined within the Jabber/XMPP community have used names > of the form "jabber:*" (deprecated since early 2002) https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4854.html

  340. moparisthebest


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