XMPP Council - 2023-04-05

does the mailing list work again?

and/or did the agenda for last week make it through eventually?

The mailing list does not.

While talking about the Mailinglist: it would be good to make it dmarc conforming like the ietf mailinglist (among others). I frequently get mails from the list that get sorted out as spam because the owner of the sender domain declared a dmarc rule that instructs the receiver to throw away mails with broken dkim AND spf...

It's time

1) roll call

o/

👋️

tmolitor, you probably need ARC, not just DMARC

but that's a topic for iteam@

sorry there has not really been an agenda. not just because I didn’t send one but also because it wouldn’t have made it through

the spreadsheet of doom is up to date though

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zp5FWJI0aubAL29LhrXkhc-MrZauJ1mtkVnm5TrtwLo/edit?usp=sharing

(just as a general hint while we are in the current situation)

thanks

Ge0rG, larma? ✏

Ge0rG, moparisthebest ✏

+1 on the three pending

larma, thanks

ok looks like we are missing Ge0rG and moparisthebest

skipping right to pending votes

Oops here

i'm still on list for pubsub#full

larma just voted

Ge0rG is pending on all three

I'm sorry, I'm still pending and also mostly AFK right now

Same on list, except I'll actually do it this time, hopefully

on-list is a bit difficult with the lists being down.

Ge0rG ok no worries

will be back properly next week and will try to vote until then

Oh right re: lists :(

> on-list is a bit difficult with the lists being down. fair. feel free to ping me in here at any time. or i'll ask again during the next meeting

note that those three will expire at the end of next weeks meeting

Maybe should extend the expiration period since lists down?

Exceptional circumstances and all that

I'd like to request an AOB slot in that context

don't have strong opinions on the voting period, as we can vote in this venue during meetings easily

we've already collected a good number of votes; let's see where we are after the next meeting

(wrt extending)

6) Date of next

+1w wfm

+1w wfm

Vote yes, but not discuss, either way I'm fine with waiting :)

(though I may have to skip spontaneously, we have a maintenance window which ends an hour before that, but we all know how maintenances are)

+2w wfm, I may or may not make it next week

moparisthebest, do you need discussion for the things?

+1w wfm

7) AOB

hands the mic to jonas’

once the lists are up, are we making sure that the agenda announcements are resent?

if so, I'd appreciate if we could include a note which mentions: - that this is a late resend because of the list outage and - reminds people that they can get in touch with council if they have objections about decisions - invites people to discuss the decisions made while the lists were off-line

what about the things for the agenda, kev listed earlier? > For the agenda: > https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1277 > https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1275 > https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1273 >https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1271 h ttps://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1270 inbox/xep-scram-upgrade has been updated https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1215 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1124/files

I think we should publish the agenda in this venue next time if the list is still down.

tmolitor, the first the are the ones we talked about

wrt JC’s xeps I need to double check that they are ready actually

okay, what about the inbox one?

jonas’, I'll try to remember that. please remind me if I don’t

tmolitor, is this the latest version? https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xep-scram-upgrade.html

yes it is

daniel, I'll try, thanks

EO-AOB

any other AOB?

I also had something related to Jingle Message Initiation

go ahead larma

As you may remember, at some point we concluded to rollback 0353 to mostly what es effectively being used in the wild (with a few improvements) with the intent for it to go into stable like that soonish

yes

This raises two questions for me. First: Do we want to LC?

is 353 currently published with a wrong date?

Second: I was previously working on a thing called call invites (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/call-invites.html) mostly intended to support usecases not currently covered by 0353 (multi-party calls, calls using external services, etc). Back then we decided to reject that proposal and instead work on adding the missing features to 0353.

daniel, yes, 0.6.0 revision was actually same date but 2023 ✏

in general yes I think that's the plan

with editor becoming active right when the list went down it was (is) a bit difficult to keep track of what's published and whats not

so I hadn’t put it on the agenda yet

Sorry about the inactivity until that point.

oh yes, apparently I missed the upgrade from 2022 to 2023 :D

Given that we now we decided to mostly keep 0353 as it is, so that it can resemble what is de-facto used in practice and move that to stable, I was wondering what council thinks about the future of the features of call invites that are not part of 0353 today.

OK I’m not reading any objections to that plan so I guess we start voting on that soon~ish

try to pass call invites again?

do you know who voted it? maybe we should ask them who they feel about it

Ge0rG, was -1 according to the old spreadsheet

But I guess as he's AFK right now, maybe we move that to another date

Sounds like I was -1 because I wanted it added into the existing XEP, so if that gets promoted, I'm out of veto reasons?

ok. I’ll try to put a proper agenda together with dedicated items for last calling 353 and an item for call invites ✏

*and the sasl inbox item ;)

yes

and #1215

I'd still prefer them merged, but I guess that's not strong enough if 353 is already widely rolled out. But I'll have to reread both to decide

ok sounds good. I guess that's all we can do right now as part of an AOB

I don't like processual things ("merged" vs "non-merged") blocking work on standards

assuming no other AOB? we are technically over time

it's ultimately a minor detail

sorry, let's close ✏

oh yes, #1215 fell completely off my radar

8) Close

no other AOB from me

thanks

jonas’, what do you mean?

too tired to explain beyond what I did, sorry

I find it easier to work with rendered and published XEPs

making decisions based on "assuming those two things are merged" and keeping that in your head is hard imho

if / once we get proper renderings for PRs it might become easier