XMPP Council - 2023-04-05

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  44. daniel

    does the mailing list work again?

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  46. daniel

    and/or did the agenda for last week make it through eventually?

  47. Kev

    The mailing list does not.

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  49. tmolitor

    While talking about the Mailinglist: it would be good to make it dmarc conforming like the ietf mailinglist (among others). I frequently get mails from the list that get sorted out as spam because the owner of the sender domain declared a dmarc rule that instructs the receiver to throw away mails with broken dkim AND spf...

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  52. daniel

    It's time

  53. daniel

    1) roll call

  54. jonas’


  55. larma


  56. jonas’

    tmolitor, you probably need ARC, not just DMARC

  57. jonas’

    but that's a topic for iteam@

  58. daniel

    sorry there has not really been an agenda. not just because I didn’t send one but also because it wouldn’t have made it through

  59. daniel

    the spreadsheet of doom is up to date though

  60. daniel


  61. daniel

    (just as a general hint while we are in the current situation)

  62. jonas’


  63. daniel

    Ge0rG, larma

  64. daniel

    Ge0rG, larma?

  65. daniel

    Ge0rG, moparisthebest

  66. larma

    +1 on the three pending

  67. daniel

    larma, thanks

  68. daniel

    ok looks like we are missing Ge0rG and moparisthebest

  69. daniel

    skipping right to pending votes

  70. moparisthebest

    Oops here

  71. daniel

    i'm still on list for pubsub#full

  72. daniel

    larma just voted

  73. daniel

    Ge0rG is pending on all three

  74. Ge0rG

    I'm sorry, I'm still pending and also mostly AFK right now

  75. moparisthebest

    Same on list, except I'll actually do it this time, hopefully

  76. jonas’

    on-list is a bit difficult with the lists being down.

  77. daniel

    Ge0rG ok no worries

  78. Ge0rG

    will be back properly next week and will try to vote until then

  79. moparisthebest

    Oh right re: lists :(

  80. daniel

    > on-list is a bit difficult with the lists being down. fair. feel free to ping me in here at any time. or i'll ask again during the next meeting

  81. daniel

    note that those three will expire at the end of next weeks meeting

  82. moparisthebest

    Maybe should extend the expiration period since lists down?

  83. moparisthebest

    Exceptional circumstances and all that

  84. jonas’

    I'd like to request an AOB slot in that context

  85. jonas’

    don't have strong opinions on the voting period, as we can vote in this venue during meetings easily

  86. daniel

    we've already collected a good number of votes; let's see where we are after the next meeting

  87. daniel

    (wrt extending)

  88. daniel

    6) Date of next

  89. daniel

    +1w wfm

  90. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  91. moparisthebest

    Vote yes, but not discuss, either way I'm fine with waiting :)

  92. jonas’

    (though I may have to skip spontaneously, we have a maintenance window which ends an hour before that, but we all know how maintenances are)

  93. moparisthebest

    +2w wfm, I may or may not make it next week

  94. jonas’

    moparisthebest, do you need discussion for the things?

  95. larma

    +1w wfm

  96. daniel

    7) AOB

  97. daniel

    hands the mic to jonas’

  98. jonas’

    once the lists are up, are we making sure that the agenda announcements are resent?

  99. jonas’

    if so, I'd appreciate if we could include a note which mentions: - that this is a late resend because of the list outage and - reminds people that they can get in touch with council if they have objections about decisions - invites people to discuss the decisions made while the lists were off-line

  100. tmolitor

    what about the things for the agenda, kev listed earlier? > For the agenda: > https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1277 > https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1275 > https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1273 >https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1271 h ttps://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1270 inbox/xep-scram-upgrade has been updated https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1215 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1124/files

  101. tmolitor

    I think we should publish the agenda in this venue next time if the list is still down.

  102. daniel

    tmolitor, the first the are the ones we talked about

  103. daniel

    wrt JC’s xeps I need to double check that they are ready actually

  104. tmolitor

    okay, what about the inbox one?

  105. daniel

    jonas’, I'll try to remember that. please remind me if I don’t

  106. daniel

    tmolitor, is this the latest version? https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xep-scram-upgrade.html

  107. tmolitor

    yes it is

  108. jonas’

    daniel, I'll try, thanks

  109. jonas’


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  111. daniel

    any other AOB?

  112. larma

    I also had something related to Jingle Message Initiation

  113. daniel

    go ahead larma

  114. larma

    As you may remember, at some point we concluded to rollback 0353 to mostly what es effectively being used in the wild (with a few improvements) with the intent for it to go into stable like that soonish

  115. daniel


  116. larma

    This raises two questions for me. First: Do we want to LC?

  117. daniel

    is 353 currently published with a wrong date?

  118. larma

    Second: I was previously working on a thing called call invites (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/call-invites.html) mostly intended to support usecases not currently covered by 0353 (multi-party calls, calls using external services, etc). Back then we decided to reject that proposal and instead work on adding the missing features to 0353.

  119. larma

    daniel, yes, 0.6.0 revision was actually 2023

  120. larma

    daniel, yes, 0.6.0 revision was actually same date but 2023

  121. daniel

    in general yes I think that's the plan

  122. daniel

    with editor becoming active right when the list went down it was (is) a bit difficult to keep track of what's published and whats not

  123. daniel

    so I hadn’t put it on the agenda yet

  124. Kev

    Sorry about the inactivity until that point.

  125. tmolitor

    oh yes, apparently I missed the upgrade from 2022 to 2023 :D

  126. larma

    Given that we now we decided to mostly keep 0353 as it is, so that it can resemble what is de-facto used in practice and move that to stable, I was wondering what council thinks about the future of the features of call invites that are not part of 0353 today.

  127. daniel

    OK I’m not reading any objections to that plan so I guess we start voting on that soon~ish

  128. daniel

    try to pass call invites again?

  129. daniel

    do you know who voted it? maybe we should ask them who they feel about it

  130. larma

    Ge0rG, was -1 according to the old spreadsheet

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  132. larma

    But I guess as he's AFK right now, maybe we move that to another date

  133. Ge0rG

    Sounds like I was -1 because I wanted it added into the existing XEP, so if that gets promoted, I'm out of veto reasons?

  134. daniel

    ok. I’ll try to put a proper agenda together was dedicated items for last calling 353 and an item for call invites

  135. daniel

    ok. I’ll try to put a proper agenda together with dedicated items for last calling 353 and an item for call invites

  136. tmolitor

    *and the sasl inbox item ;)

  137. daniel


  138. daniel

    and #1215

  139. Ge0rG

    I'd still prefer them merged, but I guess that's not strong enough if 353 is already widely rolled out. But I'll have to reread both to decide

  140. daniel

    ok sounds good. I guess that's all we can do right now as part of an AOB

  141. jonas’

    I don't like processual things ("merged" vs "non-merged") blocking work on standards

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  143. daniel

    assuming no other AOB? we are technically over time

  144. jonas’

    it's ultimately a minor detail

  145. jonas’

    sorry, let's lcose

  146. jonas’

    sorry, let's close

  147. tmolitor

    oh yes, #1215 fell completely off my radar

  148. daniel

    8) Close

  149. larma

    no other AOB from me

  150. daniel


  151. daniel

    jonas’, what do you mean?

  152. jonas’

    too tired to explain beyond what I did, sorry

  153. daniel

    I find it easier to work with rendered and published XEPs

  154. daniel

    making decisions based on "assuming those two things are merged" and keeping that in your head is hard imho

  155. daniel

    if / once we get proper renderings for PRs it might become easier

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