XMPP Council - 2023-11-22

  1. daniel

    jonas’: did the AI xep author get back to you?

  2. jonas’

    not in person, nor directly on-list apparently

  3. daniel

    OK. I'm inclined to give it a +0 at max. I think there is no argument that the xep needs massive work. If the author is unresponsive I don't see how that would work. I get wanting to be welcoming to new comers but I would expect that new comers appear somewhere in the ecosystem first before they try to write their first XEP

  4. daniel

    (plus I somehow can't shake the feeling that the xep was written by chatgpt to test us)

    🤣️ 1
  5. daniel

    Oh it's time

  6. daniel

    1) roll call

  7. jonas’


  8. larma was debugging Dino for 10 minutes to figure out why I don't get any messages

  9. moparisthebest


  10. Ge0rG


  11. daniel

    2) agenda bashing

  12. daniel

    no agenda but it’s the last meeting of this council

  13. daniel

    2-3) No editor updates and no new items for voting

  14. daniel

    5) Pending votes

  15. daniel

    moparisthebest and I are both pending on the two new proto xeps

  16. moparisthebest

    I submitted a protoxep 2 days ago but got some early feedback and will tweak before votes

  17. daniel

    +1 on HTTP online meetings

  18. daniel

    +0 on Communicate & Ask to AI

  19. jonas’

    so regarding the AI thing

  20. daniel

    moparisthebest, yes I saw that. it's not in the inbox yet and I wouldn’t have started voting on it anyway. I’m leaving that for the next council

  21. jonas’

    I would prefer if the author showed any kind of response to what I sent them.

  22. jonas’

    at this point, I'd rather go for an outright rejection instead of +0

  23. daniel

    i think last week you were +1

  24. jonas’

    however, I would like to state for the record that even the author replying on list I would consider a substantial change

  25. daniel

    but either way it wont pass

  26. Ge0rG

    maybe having 5x +0 will show the appropriate signal and yield the right effect?

  27. daniel

    i can change your vote to a -1 if you want

  28. jonas’

    as to not block future council from accepting it once the author replies

  29. Ge0rG

    right effect being non-acceptance of it as-is

  30. jonas’

    daniel, please do, I just needed to state this for the record so that anyone doing archeology knows that this is something a future council is welcome to override.

  31. Kev

    I don't think future Council would be beholden to "-1 because Author isn't responsive", if the Author became responsive, FWIW.

  32. moparisthebest

    I'm going to +1 the meetings XEP, and +0 the AI one until we can get some responses

  33. jonas’

    Kev, certainly not, but some council constellations were extremely hesitant with revisiting past council's decisions, so I wanted to state this very clearly

  34. daniel

    thank you jonas’ and moparisthebest. votes have been recorded

  35. jonas’


  36. Kev

    > , certainly not, but some council constellations were extremely hesitant with revisiting past council's decisions, so I wanted to state this very clearly Indeed. I think in those cases it was overturning a previous Council's decision, rather than revisiting because situations had changed. Anyway, back to the peanut gallery for me.

  37. daniel

    a few of use are still pending on https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1293

  38. jonas’ hands Kev some peanuts

  39. daniel

    I’m +1 (but will instruct the editor to change the changelog into something sensible)

  40. jonas’

    that's the one with the apparent mismatch between the changelog and the actual change

  41. daniel

    yes. change fine. changelog not at all

  42. jonas’

    I don't like to vote "on the condition that daniel instructs the editor to do things and the editor does things"

  43. jonas’

    but I will anyway, +1, crossing fingers that daniel takes care of things :)

  44. daniel

    we can reject it. i don’t mind

  45. jonas’

    nah, this'll otherwise drag on forever

  46. jonas’

    I trust you'll sort things out.

  47. Kev

    I think phrasing as "+1 if X change happens, -1 until then" isn't unreasonable in the abstract, FWIW. Previous Councils have done similar things.

  48. daniel

    jonas’, you are also pending on 'max' in bookmarks2

  49. daniel

    and Ge0rG on the PR I linked above

  50. daniel

    jonas’, that'? https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1278 if you don’t want to go look for the PR

  51. daniel

    jonas’, that's https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1278 if you don’t want to go look for the PR

  52. Ge0rG

    daniel: +1 on #1293 if the changelog gets fixed.

  53. jonas’

    16:11:16 jonas’> +1 on PR#1278, noting that this seems worthy of a minor, not a patch-level, version bump

  54. jonas’

    (from last week)

  55. daniel

    ok. sorry. i missed that last week. but i recorded it now

  56. jonas’

    no worries

  57. daniel

    6) Date of next there is no date of next for this conucil. for those who are going to stay with us I propose that the first meeting will be in +1w - however meetings after that are up for debate since next council will likely have more people from the other side of the atlantic

  58. moparisthebest

    +1w wfm

  59. daniel

    anyway that's a discussion the next council will have

  60. daniel

    7) AOB

  61. moparisthebest

    I'd like to thank daniel for chairing and jonas’ and Ge0rG for serving, hope to still see you around :)

  62. daniel

    indeed. thank you Ge0rG and jonas’

  63. Ge0rG

    Thanks, and I hope you'll have a fresh and productive Council in the next year!

  64. jonas’

    seconding Ge0rG :)

  65. daniel

    8) Close

  66. daniel

    Thank you all

  67. jonas’

    Thanks a lot, daniel.

  68. Ge0rG

    Thanks daniel!

  69. moparisthebest

    Thanks all!

  70. moparisthebest

    Also thanks to Kev for being the only one to continue doing the thankless editor work, I'm very grateful

  71. Kev

    Thanks to Council :)

  72. moparisthebest

    dan.caseley, singpolyma: welcome! Does 1 week from now minus 2 hours work for our first meeting? We can further refine schedules from there

  73. singpolyma

    Should be fine

  74. dan.caseley


  75. singpolyma

    isn't the election not over until tomorrow? 😂

  76. dan.caseley

    It collides with work slightly, but I can work around it 👍

  77. moparisthebest

    Eh no one else can run, unless one of us gets 0 votes maybe lol

  78. dan.caseley

    There was a conversation about byelaws a while back about abstaining as I remember. If 90% of members didn't feel strongly enough to vote Yes or No, or actively abstained, what would that mean? Etc.

  79. moparisthebest

    We'll worry about that if it happens lol

  80. moparisthebest

    I figured a week heads up would be nice to have, if we get elected, is that better? 😉

  81. dan.caseley

    I could definitely use a reading list, if folk have ideas?

  82. Zash

    I don't think council / board elections have a real way to abstain, you can just vote for 0-5 canditates, I guess zero would be closest to abstaining 🤷️