XMPP Council - 2024-01-31


  1. flow

    @council: I'd like to request the advancement of XEP-0360. Could you consider this in your next meeting? Thanks

  2. moparisthebest

    flow: unfortunate that https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0360.html#nonza-examples-before-binding is deprecated :)

  3. moparisthebest

    But otherwise seems sensible to advance to me

  4. singpolyma

    it's interesting to me that these are considered not stanzas instead of new types of stanzas. but I agree it describes what the community says in reality so sensible

  5. singpolyma

    > Informal definition: A XMPP stream element is a Nonza, if its element name is not 'message', 'iq' or 'presence'. I know this is informal but the fact that it doesn't mention namespace is concerning to me, someone might decide to actually base ths only on element name. For example <message xmlns="https://bargle.com" /> is a valid nonza

  6. singpolyma

    > Nonzas SHOULD NOT have a 'from' or 'to' attribute. This seems like a useless (and given how some people interpret SHOUL D NOT) harmful thing to say

  7. singpolyma

    > Nonzas SHOULD NOT have a 'from' or 'to' attribute. This seems like a useless (and given how some people interpret SHOUL D NOT harmful) thing to say

  8. singpolyma

    > Nonzas SHOULD NOT have a 'from' or 'to' attribute. This seems like a useless (and given how some people interpret SHOUL D NOT, harmful) thing to say

  9. Kev

    I consider the whole invention of the 'nonza' term harmful, personally.

  10. singpolyma

    Kev: as opposed to just allowing that we have other kinds of stanzas, you mean? or some other preferred terminology?

  11. Kev

    We have stanzas, which are routed, and we have things that aren't stanzas, which aren't routed. Trying to start inventing new words for non-stanza elements just adds confusion instead of clarifying anything.

  12. Kev

    In my opinion :)

  13. moparisthebest

    "non stanzas which aren't routed" is a mouthful though

  14. Kev

    Or, well, I don't care if people call them nonzas informally, but speccing this, and then referencing it in other XEPs is all just extra hoops people have to jump through for no good reason.

  15. Kev

    > "non stanzas which aren't routed" is a mouthful though It is. How often do you need to say it? :)

  16. moparisthebest

    We don't say Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol all the time either, someone invented the word XMPP, I'm ok with it

  17. dan.caseley

    Hey, I always wondered what nonza meant, but never got around to looking it up. Thanks.

  18. Kev

    > We don't say Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol all the time either, someone invented the word XMPP, I'm ok with it And no-one felt the need to publish a XEP explaining that XMPP is the eXtensible Messagind and Presence Protocol, and then make other XEPs depend on that XEP ;)

  19. Kev

    > We don't say Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol all the time either, someone invented the word XMPP, I'm ok with it And no-one felt the need to publish a XEP explaining that XMPP is the eXtensible Messaging and Presence Protocol, and then make other XEPs depend on that XEP ;)

  20. flow

    singpolyma, stanzas are well defined to be one of message, presence or iq (RFC 6120 ยง 8) and, as others have pointed out, we lacked a term for top-level stream elements that are not stanzas

  21. flow

    I don't share Kev's sentiment here, and given that I saw XMPP implementations, besides the one from me, using the term, I think there is some agreement that such a term is handy (For example, Smack has an extra Nonza type as part of its class hirarchy)

  22. flow

    I don't share Kev's sentiment here, and given that I saw XMPP implementations, besides the ones from me, using the term, I think there is some agreement that such a term is handy (For example, Smack has an extra Nonza type as part of its class hirarchy)

  23. Kev

    Of all the hills for me to die on, this is not one, I just don't see the point.

  24. flow

    I am well aware, you raised that voice when I initially submitted it. hope we still can share a trink at summit though :)

  25. flow

    I am well aware, you raised that voice when I initially submitted it. hope we still can have a drink at summit though :)

  26. Kev

    I'm up for some of Brussels's finest water, of course.

  27. flow

    (*sharing* a drink would probalby be to much, not sure if this translates correctly, I don't intend to drink from your glass ;))

  28. Kev

    It translates fine :) Probably off topic for Council though :)

  29. singpolyma

    > Or, well, I don't care if people call them nonzas informally, but speccing this, and then referencing it in other XEPs is all just extra hoops people have to jump through for no good reason. Oh sure, I agree it's not a *useful* xep but that's nothing new with our pile of xeps :P

  30. flow

    singpolyma, tell that to the other xeps that use the term nonza

  31. flow

    it really comes in handy when writing about top-level stream elements that are not stanzas

  32. singpolyma

    Nothing wrong with using the term nonza, seems like a common term