XSF Editor Team - 2014-02-25

editor meeting in 5 minutes, right?

correct

I will give a shout in the xsf muc... ;-)

graze (-:

yep, although my invite says its in council@muc.xmpp.org.

Hi Guys!

hi!

Hello

almost everybody here?

Ash should be along in a moment, his daughter is a little unwell at the moment

yuck

oohh I know the problem

all of the family sick at the moment

Yeah, on holiday with sick kids right now...

My kids aren't sick.

congrats Dave!

:-)

Dave Cridland should leave the muc right now...

Shouldn's Joachim be here?

heh, another advantage of text chat

LOL

ok, that looks like everyone

:-)

Lloyd, Leave it on, everyone will leave you alone.

Hi All.

heh

ok, let's get started

some of us are time-constrained

1) "What I Do" by Peter Saint-Andre

has everybody read the xep-readme?

did all of the editors read http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html ?

yes. I have

first of all, I'd like to thank you all for volunteering to help!

I have

Affirmative

svn is a bit outdated maybe

;-)

otherwise fine

right

ok, some updates are necessary

ack

peter: do you have any additions to the readme?

things we need to know right now?

I assume that the XEP for svn is in git? ;-)

the "Counting Council Votes" is outdated

the council posts the votes to the standards list, right?

I'll fix up some details in the README this week

the radar page is no longer used

cool

etc.

but the basics are correct

stpeter:how often do the editor do work? I mean, maybe we should meet 2 a month or so to distribute work

stpeter: obvious changes to the readme can be made us too...

yes for sure

Steffen Larsen: in general there might be editorial tasks before or after each Council meeting

e.g., publishing incoming proto-XEPs

stpeter: ok

issuing Last Calls, counting votes, etc. after meetings

that kind of thing

stupid question: how often are there council meetings?

once a week

usually

I have made a list of 'events' we should respond to, it is quite easy:

We could do with some kind of ticket/issue tracker system so people can pick up stuff that needs to be done rather then work having to be divvied out

Steffen Larsen, Once per week 1600 Wed.

:-) ok

sometimes there's no meeting

Ash: sure

yes

we had jira once

Ash: we used Jira in the past but I'm open to anything else you guys like

we should respond to: incoming xeps in editor@..

but it was never actively used

winfried: yes

to: council decisions

besides me and some others

editor@ is currently just an alias that sends stuff to me

and we should monitor experimental xeps not being updated for 12 month

I'd rather re-use infrastructure that's available

winfried: correct

I like a ticket system.. especially when there is more than one person

Steffen Larsen: WFM

rather than spin up something new

m&m: +1

Would be great if emails to editor@ could be fed straight into the ticketing too

As an alternative, a rota would probably work fine.

Ash: sure thing

rota?

That is, have one duty editor per week.

ah

or should we make editor@ a mailinglist?

winfried: possible, yes

can we coordinate to ourselves too ;-)

hmm no I think a muc and jira is perfect

I think making editor@ a mailing list is reasonable

emails are not a ticket system. :-)

essentially write-only

well, editor@ does receive inbound messages from authors, so making it a mailing list would enable everyone to know what's incoming

Is there already a ticketing system at the xsf?

as long as the traffic on editor@ is relatively low (which I assume it is), I think we can live with the manual conversion to a ticket

I only know of jira

winfried: we sort-of have Jira

\me has been working on deploying a ticketing system for the past few months so has ticketing on the brain!

(-:

m&m: yes, I think that would be fine

Jira is great as it's hosted and free and even better if it's already set up

how many are we (editors)?

yes

8 with joachim?

Steffen Larsen: 6 or 7, I think

6 not including stpeter

ok

7 if we include stpeter

- Dave, course :)

stpeter: we might use you as a shadow in the start.. to ask questions etc.

:-)

Right, there's 8 people here, but Kev, stpeter and I aren't actually editors.

Steffen Larsen: yes, of course!

However you're missing Joachim.

hrm … we're missing someone

stpeter: we dont wanna mess things up.. just want to help

was Joachim on the list?

to sec

I pulled it from Board and Council logs

Joachim raised his hand in Brussels, but was not on the list approved by the board

hhmm maybe I should write and ask him

(And he raised his hand again on the members list)

the other name on the list was Stefan Strigler

Ah, indeed, Stefan

yes. stefan should be here

I'll write him now

regarding access, IMHO each member of the editor team should have git privileges and an account on athena to run the scripts (or, you guys can figure out some subset of people)

Steffen Larsen: thanks. He should have been part of the email chain

Right, yes. Not Joachim, but Steffan.

I think granting everyone is fine

Just pinged Steve

me too!

:-9

LOL

prob. in erlang world..

he is coming in now

concurrent processes ;-)

ha ha

yes

winfried, Really slow message passing, though.

heh

:-)

Hi Steve!

hey, hi! :)

:-)

Welcome!

so what action items do we have?

sorry, sorry, sorry

from what I've gathered so far ...

transfering editor@.. to a mailinglist

#1: setup a ticketing system

#git access

#2: transfer editor@ to a mailing list

# update xep-README

couldn't we just use github to handle most of it?

no

zeank: Yes!

I agree

github is not canonical

BTW we'll need list admins for editor@ to approve legitimate incoming messages

(and we plan to deploy greylisting on atlas soon to avoid an overload of spam)

ok, editor gets 99,5% spam?

probably

auch

:-(

such is life

I have it redirect to my gmail.com address so all the spam magically goes away

Technically, ProtoXEP submissions MUST have a specific subject line.

but greylisting should help

Dave Cridland: true

I'll let the list admins work out methods :-)

LOL...!

thanks peter :-)

On access:

to do the job we need shell access to ...

right

where is also a git repository that is used to publish... (right?)

I think I have access alraedy

a couple of us might already have shell access (or had it in the past)

already

form way back.. doing some jingle stuff in 2007/8

I had shell access at one point, but I think those ssh keys were lost

I have no shell access...

prob. me neither

who can coordinate that?

how will do this? tobi?

tobi, kev, and I have shell access to that machine

anyone from the i-team should be able to do it, no?

and others, likely

I can harass —erm — follow up with one of those three

editor@ list set up

gracias

thanks, hit me with the spam :-P

:)

I'm already moderator for other lists, what's one more? (-:

anyone else want to be a moderator?

I assume for shell access that the box admins will need SSH keys

shall we send pgp-signed ssh-keys to the editor list?

ok. who is gathering the list and doing action on our bullit points?

m&m yes please

stpeter, Stating the obvious, it's open to non-subscriber posts, right?

winfried: sure

yes

Dave Cridland: it will be once I configure it correctly

stpeter, Just seemed like something worth double-checking. :-)

yep

T-2 minutes, right?

anything else?

yes

- how to keep git tidy

- how to divide labour :-)

we should setup another meeting to finish up inauguration

so are we using branch strategy or just pure master?

or git flow?

ugh

ugh what?

see, we have more to do than just divvy out work (-:

which email address is right for Lloyd?

git flow for this sounds a bit like overhead ;)

evilprofessor?

stpeter lloyd@evilprofessor.co.uk please

nah.. well it depends on the scenario

ok I've added a bunch of you to the editor@ list

great!

stpeter: thanks

uhm, added myself already ;)

7 members, I must be missing someone

now, could the editor team be made admins for this room, please (-:

7 sounds right

heh yes

yes please

:-)

ok, I need to get going … how about we have a follow up meeting

will we recevie an email about the editor list?

can't you post the list of email addresses subscribed?

I cannot meet next week

next week I am on ski

so maybe next week again?

some of you guys will prob. meet in london, right?

WFM, unless we have a quorum in London

(-:

right

hmm, how do I change affiliations in Adium?

m&m anything that stops us from getting started?

winfried: I don't think so

winfried: shell access

just keep each other informed..

;-)

right!

yes please keep me in the loop

We can always continue the discussion on the mailing list

winfried, Well, git and shell.

when I am on vacation next week

In slower time

git: we decided on branching strategy not?

winfried: did we? which one? where? when?

I'd suggest pure master unless there's a reason to go branching.

(y)

+1

well: I counted your 'ugh' as a vote for branching...

ah

+1

ok

master + email-based MINE-ing

ash: creepy with the email!

and the first spam message arrives!

that didn't take long

master is fine if work is that little

Hehe. Yeah. Great minds, eh!

Ash: :-)

BTW, this room is archived, as is the editor@ list

stpeter: super!

+1

for everything else there is git rebase ;)

Steffen Larsen: there's not usually much to do with the XEPs themselves

uhm no I mean git push -f :D

ok

so, let's plan to meet back here in exactly two weeks

BTW, thanks to all of you for volunteering.

m&m WGM

WFM even

two weeks! great!

ok

2014-02-11T16:00Z

11. March?

yes

we can create a calendar for the editor team, too

yes (-:

17:00 CET?

Kev, what do people need to access xsf git? isn't that handled by gitosis or so?

m&m, 2014-03-11T16:00Z then

OK, will take some planning for me.. but probably I can make it...

oh, duh

Tobias, Yeah, gitosis IIRC.

yes 2014-03-11T16:00:00Z

I need to step out for a few minutes, bbiab

in my calendar

are we done or more on the agenda?

also I think a third list admin would be helpful to cut down on the admin duties (at least until we get greylisting deployed)

bbiab

for now, I think we're done

I'll try to gather minutes on this meeting, but we have the logs

m&m: perfect!

and I'll send it through editor@xmpp.org for now, fwd to standards@xmpp.org

stpeter: you can add me as well

I take it y'all are ok with me assuming the Chair role, yes? (-:

if someone else wants it, speak up!

Fine by me :)

+1

I am just a simple working man. :-)

zeank@jwchat.org: thanks

its ok, but are you fine with it, m&m?

winfried: I'm fine with it … for now (-:

I think it'll work out just fine

steve: thanks for the email :)

zeank: do you have a preferred email address for such things?

Everybody got the test mail on the editor list?

(y)

I got it

ok guys. I am out of here. Have to cook some food for the family!

winfried: I think I left Stefan off the list, let me check

Yup

got it!

nope, n/m

stpeter: zeank@jwchat.org is fine

or can it be the same I registered with?

then please use stefan.strigler@gmail.com

yep

used @gmail

anyway, bbiaf

perf

Excellent

winfried: enjoy ;)

" I have it redirect to my gmail.com address so all the spam magically goes away stpeter @ 16:21"

Yes, that's what gets atlas blacklisted :)

done with work for today as well, so bye bye ;)

cu!

thanks everyone

I'll track down the git/ssh access minutea

"Kev, what do people need to access xsf git? isn't that handled by gitosis or so? Tobias @ 16:38" Send me their keys.

:)

sorry, missed it!

m&m: This is just for access to the Git repo?

Kev, Shell as well.

Shell to do what?

Kev, Run the scripts in-situ, I think.

Which scripts, as which user?

Kev, This is beyond the ken of mortal folk.

Kev, I'd suggest asking stpeter but he is, sadly, in an XSF Editor meeting it seems.

it's to run the various XEP scripts as the "xsf" user

however, if you're not comfortable with the whole editorial team, this team will need to know what subset is acceptable

I think in practical terms, it really needs to be the whole team.

I agree

The whole team being able to regenerate XEPs seems fine.

I'm just not keen on handing out root to accomplish it - thus needing to know what's involved.

/nod

stpeter can provide more info, but the XEP-README should have the major points

we don't use root to run the editor scripts

wouldn't we just need to add folks to the 'xsf' group?

No, I gathered that. But normal shell accounts presumably won't do :)

I don't know.

That's why I asked what they need :)

that's my impression, anyway

currently I run all those scripts as 'xsf'

Could I start with giving m&m access as a member of the xsf group, then, and waiting for the reports of "I can't do X" to come in?

If there are scripts that are safe to run (as in, they're idempotent or whatever), then could we devise a dry-run test?

I think 'safe to run' and 'idempotent' are very different things.

rm -rf / is idempotent.

(Well, loosely. It's technically not operating on itself, so it's not really idempotence)

Kev: I think have a smaller group of script-runners seems fine to me

Yes, I've fallen foul of the "using an impressive sounding word but in the wrong way" fallacy.

stpeter, right...basically it's changing to xsf home dir, switch to xmpp-hg, run "hg pull -u" and then ./calgen.py or extensions/gen.py -a

Tobias: yep

Tobias: "switch to xmpp-hg'?

Kev /home/xsf/xmpp-hg folder

Righty.

Nowhere in there did you change user :)

well..i was already the xsf user

:)

maybe a setuid bit or so, but that might be too much

Kev: what's your feeling about making the editor README a XEP?

I think there's no need and no harm.

sounds about right

WFM

Well. Limited harm.

It's extra work without any clear(to me) benefit.

What's the motivation for doing so?

no motivation here

I don't have any

I don't see any reason to publish internal procedures...

m&m: we can do those in bulk sometime

I was testing my password, seemed like a worthy test case (-:

setting up greylisting seems like a higher priority now

/nod

Next question is: how do I use gpg to verify m&m's key? :)

gpg, the pinnacle of usability

m&m: Key ID?

BTW, when the editor team processes files, we might want to not use personal initials, or use a convention like editor+psa

e.g., when publishing initial versions

that seems reasonable

it's similar to what the RFC Editor does

XEP Editor(PSA), I'd have thought, would do?

Which is slightly less cryptic - but hills, etc.

<initials>editor(psa)</initials>

or somesuch

I don't particularly care, as long as we're consistent :-)

back now

my gpg key should be in the public keyring by now

otherwise you'll have a wonderful opportunity to verify it a week from today (-:

if tracking the specific editor is necessary, then editor(initials) seems fine, but I don't see a problem with just using "editor"

It seems like information it's potentially useful to have, and not harmful to have, so I don't see why not to.

http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html updated

gracias

sighup:~/tmp/mmkey/> gpg --verify id_rsa.pub.sig id_rsa.pub.txt 5:43pm gpg: Signature made Tue Feb 25 17:00:42 2014 GMT using RSA key ID 109E05BB gpg: BAD signature from "Matthew A. Miller <linuxwolf@outer-planes.net>"

Uhhoh!

hrmph

I think there's an argument about whether a key only signed by you is trusted, too :D

Editors - Does Council need to do BOSH things?

If so, what please? :)

hmm

I have missed some discussions... but there are not logs since some months: http://logs.jabber.org/new/ Can you help me?

Neustradamus: that doesn't have anything to do with the XEP Editor Team

There is not discussion here?

before "<m&m> /nod"?

If you want the logs for this room, note that it's not on jabber.org, and look at http://logs.xmpp.org

Neustradamus: this room is for discussion about the XEP Editor Team, not jabber.org logging issues

right, see http://logs.xmpp.org/editor/ for logs of this room

/-:

ho yes, sorry!

git clone failed for me: mamille2$ git clone git@athena.jabber.org:xmpp.git Cloning into 'xmpp'... ssh: connect to host athena.jabber.org port 22: Connection refused fatal: Could not read from remote repository. Please make sure you have the correct access rights and the repository exists.

m&m: Right. I've not set it up for you because I'm hoping I have some way of verifying your key first :)

it's not on port 22 either

Send me your key over XMPP and I'll vaguely trust it :)

hey stpeter. I just made a quick wiki: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Editor_team . Who was the last couple of persons?

I mix jabber.org/xmpp.org logs but my request was originaly about to see previous conversations before line that I have noted before...

Neustradamus: So follow the link that we gave you.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/259/943/694.png

Kev: :)

m&m: 5284 is your friend

Host athena.jabber.org Port 5284

I'm following the instructions on http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-source-control/

~/.ssh/config

thanks

little question: editor@... is a ML? because it is not listed on http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo

Steffen Larsen: I think that list is complete

m&m: You should have access to the xmpp repository.

Neustradamus: it's mostly an alias and not really a mailing list -- we have other lists that are not listed there

"Ashley" ==> Ashley Ward

right

otherwise that looks like the right list to me

Which we very probably want to split up to only contain XEPs and associated at some point.

not sure whether editor@ ought to be archived

stpeter: ok! For me, like you want...

hmm

does anyone know if joachim actually signed up for editor? I know he signed up for upnp laison..

hmm hmm hmmm … archiving editor@ … hmm hmm

Steffen Larsen: I defer to others on that, although we do need to get the UPnP thing going :-)

stpeter: yes

yeah, "not it" on UPnP

m&m: updated the names on the wiki

I could have updated that list myself! (-

stpeter: (-:<

I'm now waiting for Kev to apply the public key I sent him via IM

stpeter: He did not volunteer on the list, and wasn't on the list selected by Council and Board, I think?

he was not

m&m: Scroll up four minutes.

from my reading of the list(s)

Kev: that's my understanding

I don't see a problem with adding him, I think it just needs Council to suggest it to Board.

Kev: I did send my key over XMPP

m&m: You should have access to the xmpp repository. Kev @ 21:07

It was done, immediately!

hrmph

I did not see that

I do not see that

(in the history)

anyway, thank you for applying my pubkey

YW.

I am volunteer like I have said previously on xsf room at Dave Cridland

heh

it's always good to test the runbook

exactly

I think the README might be missing 'assign appropriate namespaces'?

ok g'night folks.. off to bed. cheers

hrm

oh, nevermind … I skipped a step (-:

XEP-0152 is now at step 6 of XEP-README

now I need someone with shell access to finish things off

Ah yes, you needed that as well.

(-:

mamille?

linuxwolf?

the latter would be nicer, otherwise mamille2 (which is my work uid)

Let me know when you're logged in.

in

Marvellous.

I guess you don't need a password as you're not sudoing.

You thought just being in the xsf group would be enough, yes?

well, I haven't tried to run any of the scripts yet

stpeter: somes links do not work on http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html maybe a little update?

Hmm. I wonder if xmpp or xsf was what was meant.

xsf

logout and login as xsf@ ?

You are now in the xsf group if you log out and in again.

Which someone thought should be enough for you.

I guess we'll see

hrmph

Give me a moment, I'll do something else.

assuming "Update SVN on the webserver" means "Pull to editor's workspace from local git repository", I ran into a permissions problem

if that helps suss out the next layer of this onion

OK.

Can you try sudo su - please?

prompted for password

sudo /bin/bash

sudo is prompting for a password

sudo -u xsf /usr/bin/vim

And if that doesn't work, lastly

sudo -u /bin/bash

Which is the only one that should work, if I've not screwed up the sudo config.

-u by itself?

No.

-u xsf

Type what I meant, not what I said :)

(-:

still prompting for a password

Hmm

groups

linuxwolf xsf

OK.

Now log out/in and try again.

will do

but why don't I just passwd?

that worked

The config is that you can only run one command, which is /bin/bash as xsf.

I could add needing a password onto that as well. I guess that wouldn't be stupid.

I think that would be a good idea

oh, but I'll need my current password, because I'm not root (duh)

You now have your current password.

Please change it.

password updated

Good. You need your password to sudo now.

and I'm prompted for a password on sudo

ls -lhA

er

I must be an idiot, because I can't get past my permissions problem cloning the git repo

sorry, I was on a video call, what did I miss in those 60 messages? ;-)

I am stuck on step 6 of "Advancing a XEP"

oh

well, you must have a password of some kind on athena, no?

I do

I'm logged in now

oh ok

its a basic permissions problem

hrm

on which part?

with the local git repo

I munged lots of steps into one

hrm

readable only by the user "git"

local = on athena?

or anyone in the "git" group

yes

assuming that "Update SVN on the webserver" means "Pull latest into git working directory"

oh I thought I removed all references to SVN

ah, not quite, I see

did you reload the README?

oh

I had a cached copy

I had reloaded, but I didn't aggressively reload (-:

ok

I see I did mess up the <revision/> block then

used <initials>Editor(mm)</initials> instead of <initials>XEP Editor (mm)</initials>

that's trivial to fix

I foresee the need to make further fixes on the README

testing

weird

anyway I see: git:x:1017: xsf:x:1018:git

which is strange

in /etc/groups

hrmph

very

/etc/group that is

just tried to run archive.sh, and got: cp: cannot stat `/var/www/vhosts/xmpp.org/extensions/xep-.html': No such file or directory

I don't know how innocuous that is

oh

heh

usage for those scripts is in the script

my bad

(-:

we're finding errors in the documentation

so it's './archive.sh 0152' or whatever

ah, ok

and lastcall.py takes a date

and so on

bad docs, bad scripts

hehe

I'm sure the editor team can do better

so that worked

maybe

"maybe" as in "maybe we could do better"

so, "List Administration"

this states I need to login to list-admin for standards@xmpp.org

right

the announcement email will go there

from running ./announce.py 0152

right

but email from editor@ is modded

since otherwise we'd have lots more spam on the list

sure

it makes sense

I think we could fix some of that in the postfix config

discard all editor@ from addresses other than those originating locally

/nod

anyway

I either need the admin password for standards, or you need to clear out the queue

'cause we're ready to announce!

(or the postfix config is jiggered)

just cleared the queue

ok, calling announce now

check the queue, should be a message pending from editor@xmpp.org