XSF Editor Team - 2014-03-11

hmm

m&m let's discuss in the meeting tomorrow

I need to put together an agenda for today

some suggestions:

- post mortum

remember we only have 30 minutes!

- access

- BOSH

- dividing work

- how to communicate with the council

- structuring changelogs and tagging changes as major/minor

- XEPS we have to act on

- the next humorous xep

+1

that is more like 120 minutes of stuff

:-)

we're not talking about it all

its actually hard to divide work when we use email as our XEP queue

unless we are talking together and splitting work in our muc here

Agree with Steffen Larsen

well I am off.. talk to you in a couple of hours guys

Isn't it just a case of replying to an item on the list before you deal with it? It hardly affects me what tools you folks use, but still...mailing lists seem like they should work fine.

Lloyd: would you track down Ash for us, please?

I Have to excuse Stefan Strigler, he probably can't make it today

He;s around

excused! :-)

just poked ash to join early

Hello!

hi!

my clock sais we still about about two minutes

says even

clearly that is demonstrating the elite typing skills of an editor

:)

:-)

:)

hello Ash and Winfried!

counting down for banging the gavel

hi steffen ;-)

2

1

0

*BANG*

alright, so the agenda for today

1) Hand-off Portmortem ------------------------------

I kept meaning to write this up while in London last week, but failed miserably

hi :-)

how much is there to say?

XEP-readme was updated to reflect the latest

yes it looks more modern now :-)

it still requires a good amount of manual steps

and special access

list administration for standards@

right

WordPress (until Simon and Laura replace the WP-based site with something static)

git

shell

Not sure but I guess the new site will still be wordpress

yeah, too many disparate tools

I think there's still a couple of bugs in the XEP-readme, and I'll submit a patch to address that

yes a lot could be done automatically

the shell and python scripts have some documentation, which probably should go into the readme (or someone to update the scripts)

but lets do that when we understand the process better

right

+1

I started looking into what it would take to use git hooks

would love to be able to test / run all scripts and so locally

I think it's possible, but I have some concerns if there are non-Editor team people with push rights

yes

how about also using merge request from gitorious?

I'm not a Git expert, but wouldn't that require us to have the canonical repo in gitorius?

Steffen: maybe better understand the current process before doing so

sure

I think the current readme covers the steps fairly well now

yes

the only bug I've found are references to a local git working copy that is not in the right place

my biggest concern is not the process.. but more the queue and the many mails that confuses me..

the readme still needs to be build into html and updated on the site ;-)

Steffen: +1

Steffen Larsen: one thing at a time!

thats done by a script right

m&m: right

yes, XEP-readme is a XEP, so gen.py can do the right thing with it

I'm not sure there's much more to say about the postmortem

stpeter?

sounds about right to me

ok, that brings us to the access rights....

I'd like to get more people working on things (see next topic) because different people will find different process bugs

2) Access Control ------------------------------ + Website + Git + Mailing lists

I lumped website together

that's really shell (for the static-ish side) and WP

to get access, you need to send Kev your SSH key

to get git and shell

ok

Kev had concerns with lots of people having shell access. Has that been resolved?

he's nervous about signing everyone up for that, though

no it has not

ok

so we will ship him our key?

Steffen Larsen: correct

I understand Kev's concerns about shell access

so there is no editor group with proper limits?

but, we need to be able to do the job

so unless we're going to do a potentially massive tooling effort right now ...

… the i-team is going to have to grant limited access

there are limits, though

ok

if we implemented git hooks then shell access would become a moot point

we really just need to have /bin/bash as user "xsf"

Lloyd: most likely, yes

I'm not sure how much effort is required there

for what? updating the local repo and generating the html ?

Steffen Larsen: yes

If you all want shell, can you let me know which commands you need to run as xsf, please?

Just granting lots of extra people access to bash doesn't sound ideal.

ok. we might just be able to do that by cron? and let it check out the latest master from the repo?

Steffen Larsen: slow down a little (-:

sorry.. just trying to make it easier by not having ssh access

if we're willing to limp along with a couple of people having shell...

I'd prefer not to have shell if possible, there should be tools/procedures in place to make things as simple as possible. (happy to have shell I'm talking the global "I")

… and others (possibly those same people) working on more automated tooling ...

m&m +1

… we could get by with a lot fewer shell rights

yes!

ok so we should divide efforts: tooling and current queue

yup

winfried: +1

+1

+1

;-)

the tooling group should be able to work with a local clone of git

In terms of tooling, we could make use of Atlassian's tools which are free for open source projects

Ash: you need to clear that with the i-team

they would be the ones to maintain the base software

installs, updates, runtime, etc

Their cloud service is free

if the Board is not comfortable moving git to a cloud service, I don't see this being acceptable either

guess some git-hooks being build on the current scripts should do?

Jira for ticket management, Bamboo for CI (to do the builds)

s/Board/XSF membership/

Fair enough. Just an idea :)

I do appreciate it

Ash: we have previously used Atlassian tools so I think we could use them again if desired / needed

Not a fan of atlassian, but at least it would give us an easy integrated solution. However if we were going that far I'd prefer github + travis - with the added benefit of visibility :)

but I appreciate the arguments against better (-:

Lloyd: +1 to transparency

as long as we can run it on athena, and the i-team is willing to deal with the software installs/updates

to me, scripts are one thing, but software packages are another

nod

can you elaborate that a bit?

and I don't think it's appropriate for the editor team to maintain software packages unless we can isolate it to just the editor team function (write-wise)

I think maybe we're getting a little sidetracked with solutions rather than tasks.

yup

Lloyd: I think you're right (-:

anyway, let's figure out who wants to do what

engineers love to talk about their tools :-)

who wants to look into improved automation?

:)

stpeter :)

*silence*

So how about those with current access work on current queue and others in tooling team (discuss via mailing list) as a first start and then anyone who wants to switch (or do both) please say

m&m I'll happily do that.

thanks Lloyd

m&m: you might not like my suggestions ;) I have strong opinions sometimes

Lloyd: I am bigger than you, though (-:

..and across an ocean :P

heh

When we've used Atlassian previously, it has been a services we've hosted, and the maintenance was not fun.

frankly, as long as it gets the job done and the maintenance is reasonably isolated, I'm open

Kev: agreed

s/reasonably isolated/reasonable/

as for queue management, I've found email to be sufficient for small teams like this

I'm not saying 'iteam is not willing to do this', just noting that it's a significant time drain.

email + this chatroom are fine by me

but I'm old-fashioned

stpeter +1 (on both)

stpeter: apparently I am too

mostly works for me, if it doesn't I'm sure we'll shout.

just be good about checking your email d-:

is there more about access we want to talk about?

mailing lists

right, I sent mail about that

I think we should all have admin rights on at least editor@, and probably standards@ too

I think it would spread the load

stpeter: that's why I have it in the agenda (-:

(we need to get some greylisting and other spam-fighting things on atlas while we're at it)

wondering what will be coming my way, but lets hit it ;-)

winfried: you can help with tooling (-:

and/or list moderation

stpeter: does the editor team need to be involved with that anti-spam effort?

thats ok, was just wondering what list moderation would end me up with ;-)

winfried: so far, it's periodically checking the editor@ list and junking a bunch of emails

really not more than once a day

m&m I don't think so

ok

standards@ has maybe one thing a week that needs attention

from what I've noticed

ok, we're behind schedule

yup

any more on access?

nope

(shake)

Don't think so

there is a wiki that Steffan got started, so we can capture some of the decisions made here on that page

moving on

3) Outstanding Work ------------------------------ + BOSH + Deferred XEPs + Website updates

+ XEP-0060

BOSH: I send a patch to the editor@ fixing a minor type

s/type/typo/

winfried: as soon as possible, please (-:

There is a list of XEP to defer

send it on feb 17th

will resend it...

oh, send not sent

ah

yes, please … it probably got lost in the shuffle from stpeter to !stpeter (-:

nod

(and I don;t have rights) After that BOSH can be voted upon for final

stpeter: you have the list of XEPs to defer handy?

m&m: yep, please hold

winfried: /nod

I suggest that we deal with deferment once a month

Sounds sensible

it means some Experimental XEPs will have extended times, but that seems fine to me

that is already current practice not?

winfried: the current practice is that stpeter gets to the deferred XEPs when he can (-:

the only XEPs to be deferred that I see are 305, 316, and 317

we'll try to be a little more regular with it

stpeter: thanks

for website, I think the only thing left right now is automation, which we already discussed

all the other WP updates I had in my local .todo have been taken care of

for my picture: who has access and can work on the current queue right now?

not I

definitely myself and stpter

Nor me

I thought winfried had git access, but I guess that's not the case

nope

I think all of us should have git rights

then you can ping myself or stpeter for the stuff that requires shell access

at least until we get better automation going

that seems fine for now

nod

*hint hint Lloyd (-:

I will start looking into tooling this week and report back via email/next meeting

thanks

Ash: you mentioned XEP-0060 … are the patches pending?

Not yet. I have started, but don't have much time.

ok, so you're working on patches, but don't have them yet

Yeah

so there's no action for the rest of the editor team (-:

So not to worry

:)

I think that covers #4

er #3

4) Future Work ------------------------------ + Automation options + Humorous XEP

we've already figured out automation

Ash, remind me to talk about patches dwd and I discussed last week

regarding a humorous XEP …

Lloyd: Will do

do we want to try and do one this year? or does someone already have a writeup ready for council sign-off?

well... I suggest we vote on a humorous xep before sxep-0001 is changed :-P

heh

we need an idea first

I haven't done one of those in years

they were fun, though

was thinking about ciricular approving bodies for approving humorous xeps

in London we got to talking about the morse code transport binding - who needs WebSocket? ;-)

winfried: (-:

either of those are fine with me

I think I might have been the one to suggest the morse-code transport, too (-:

if something is to come from this body, I think we would need it ready before next Friday (03/21)

it's just under two weeks, but I know I don't have the time myself

was brainstorming once with steffen on xmpp over humanpowerd two wheeled pedal transport

but I want to have that one implemented before submitting ;-)

haha

remember — "XEP or it doesn't exist". Someone needs to write it before we can publish

any volunteers?

when was the last humorous XEP published?

to be honest, xmpp over morse code gives me a bit of a feeling: "been there before"

2009

2011

yes, XEP-0295

commentory on some current topic (like the json xep) is great

that or another security one

yeah!

the anti-privacy XEP

the problem with humorous XEPs is that you need to be inspired to write one, and I guess I haven't felt inspired in that way since 2009 :(

stpeter: exactly

and I take the lack of a hand or "I'll do it" to mean we have no volunteers to write it

if someone volunteers with me, I want to write an anti-privacy xep

got some great ideas bubbling up

I don't have the time to do that

the best humorous specs also have a germ of truth in them

I signed up for too much extra work last week (-:

neither have I ;-)

m&m: you did!

ok, moving on

5) Next Meeting ------------------------------

yeah, ping me if anybody wants to be involved

Automated carbons to your local government agency, to save taxpayers money?

:)

yep, that kind of stuff@!

I think this meeting is useful

so we should keep doing it

Agree

but do we need/want to do it weekly or bi-weekly?

+1

shall we add it to the calendar?

monthly is too long

agree

stpeter: I think that makes sense

fortnightly seemed to make sense

+1

At least until processes/automation settles?

FWIW, I think very short meetings frequently make a lot of sense. But that's just me.

Lloyd: I was about to suggest weekly until we have automation (-:

I have to leave right now...

we're 17 minutes over

I will read it back in the logs, this time usally fits, otherwise best on monday or friday

is everyone ok with resuming next week?

m&m fine with that, as long as they aren't all 1hr long :)

no, please no!

30 minutes

OK

and I'll have a better agenda for next week, really (-:

ok, next meeting on 2014-03-18 @ 16:00 UTC

yep, cut it off at 30 and we can delay until the next one

exactly

oh, a pep node for "selfies"

ok, I say we're done

thanks everyone

Cool see you all next week - and every working day until then :)

Lloyd: :-)

Cheers!

You can discuss me all you want

(-:

holy crap … I'm already 31 emails behind since I last checked

BTW I just edited the postfix config a bit on atlas, but no promises that it will help

which was just before 16:00 UTC

stpeter: we'll see (-:

everyone, be sure to get Kev your info for git access

Kev how best to do this?

Send me it gpg signed using the key you had me sign at the summit? ;)