winfried- structuring changelogs and tagging changes as major/minor
winfried- XEPS we have to act on
winfried- the next humorous xep
Steffen Larsen+1
m&mthat is more like 120 minutes of stuff
Steffen Larsen:-)
m&mwe're not talking about it all
Steffen Larsenits actually hard to divide work when we use email as our XEP queue
Steffen Larsenunless we are talking together and splitting work in our muc here
LloydAgree with Steffen Larsen
Steffen Larsenwell I am off.. talk to you in a couple of hours guys
Steffen Larsenhas left
KevIsn't it just a case of replying to an item on the list before you deal with it? It hardly affects me what tools you folks use, but still...mailing lists seem like they should work fine.
stpeterhas joined
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m&mLloyd: would you track down Ash for us, please?
winfriedI Have to excuse Stefan Strigler, he probably can't make it today
LloydHe;s around
Steffen Larsenexcused! :-)
Lloydjust poked ash to join early
Ashhas joined
AshHello!
winfriedhi!
m&mmy clock sais we still about about two minutes
m&msays even
m&mclearly that is demonstrating the elite typing skills of an editor
m&mthat's really shell (for the static-ish side) and WP
m&mto get access, you need to send Kev your SSH key
m&mto get git and shell
winfriedok
AshKev had concerns with lots of people having shell access. Has that been resolved?
m&mhe's nervous about signing everyone up for that, though
m&mno it has not
Steffen Larsenok
Steffen Larsenso we will ship him our key?
m&mSteffen Larsen: correct
m&mI understand Kev's concerns about shell access
winfriedso there is no editor group with proper limits?
m&mbut, we need to be able to do the job
m&mso unless we're going to do a potentially massive tooling effort right now ...
m&m… the i-team is going to have to grant limited access
m&mthere are limits, though
Steffen Larsenok
Lloydif we implemented git hooks then shell access would become a moot point
m&mwe really just need to have /bin/bash as user "xsf"
m&mLloyd: most likely, yes
m&mI'm not sure how much effort is required there
Steffen Larsenfor what? updating the local repo and generating the html ?
m&mSteffen Larsen: yes
KevIf you all want shell, can you let me know which commands you need to run as xsf, please?
KevJust granting lots of extra people access to bash doesn't sound ideal.
Steffen Larsenok. we might just be able to do that by cron? and let it check out the latest master from the repo?
m&mSteffen Larsen: slow down a little (-:
Steffen Larsensorry.. just trying to make it easier by not having ssh access
m&mif we're willing to limp along with a couple of people having shell...
LloydI'd prefer not to have shell if possible, there should be tools/procedures in place to make things as simple as possible. (happy to have shell I'm talking the global "I")
m&m… and others (possibly those same people) working on more automated tooling ...
Lloydm&m +1
m&m… we could get by with a lot fewer shell rights
Steffen Larsenyes!
winfriedok so we should divide efforts: tooling and current queue
Lloydyup
m&mwinfried: +1
Steffen Larsen+1
winfried+1
winfried;-)
m&mthe tooling group should be able to work with a local clone of git
AshIn terms of tooling, we could make use of Atlassian's tools which are free for open source projects
m&mAsh: you need to clear that with the i-team
m&mthey would be the ones to maintain the base software
m&minstalls, updates, runtime, etc
AshTheir cloud service is free
Steffen Larsenhas left
m&mif the Board is not comfortable moving git to a cloud service, I don't see this being acceptable either
winfriedguess some git-hooks being build on the current scripts should do?
AshJira for ticket management, Bamboo for CI (to do the builds)
m&ms/Board/XSF membership/
AshFair enough. Just an idea :)
m&mI do appreciate it
stpeterAsh: we have previously used Atlassian tools so I think we could use them again if desired / needed
LloydNot a fan of atlassian, but at least it would give us an easy integrated solution. However if we were going that far I'd prefer github + travis - with the added benefit of visibility :)
m&mbut I appreciate the arguments against better (-:
stpeterLloyd: +1 to transparency
m&mas long as we can run it on athena, and the i-team is willing to deal with the software installs/updates
m&mto me, scripts are one thing, but software packages are another
stpeternod
winfriedcan you elaborate that a bit?
m&mand I don't think it's appropriate for the editor team to maintain software packages unless we can isolate it to just the editor team function (write-wise)
LloydI think maybe we're getting a little sidetracked with solutions rather than tasks.
winfriedyup
m&mLloyd: I think you're right (-:
m&manyway, let's figure out who wants to do what
stpeterengineers love to talk about their tools :-)
m&mwho wants to look into improved automation?
Ash:)
Lloydstpeter :)
winfried*silence*
LloydSo how about those with current access work on current queue and others in tooling team (discuss via mailing list) as a first start and then anyone who wants to switch (or do both) please say
Lloydm&m I'll happily do that.
m&mthanks Lloyd
Lloydm&m: you might not like my suggestions ;) I have strong opinions sometimes
m&mLloyd: I am bigger than you, though (-:
Lloyd..and across an ocean :P
stpeterheh
KevWhen we've used Atlassian previously, it has been a services we've hosted, and the maintenance was not fun.
m&mfrankly, as long as it gets the job done and the maintenance is reasonably isolated, I'm open
stpeterKev: agreed
m&ms/reasonably isolated/reasonable/
m&mas for queue management, I've found email to be sufficient for small teams like this
KevI'm not saying 'iteam is not willing to do this', just noting that it's a significant time drain.
stpeteremail + this chatroom are fine by me
stpeterbut I'm old-fashioned
winfriedstpeter +1 (on both)
m&mstpeter: apparently I am too
Lloydmostly works for me, if it doesn't I'm sure we'll shout.
m&mjust be good about checking your email d-:
m&mlooks at the agenda again
m&mis there more about access we want to talk about?
m&mmailing lists
stpeterright, I sent mail about that
m&mI think we should all have admin rights on at least editor@, and probably standards@ too
stpeterI think it would spread the load
m&mstpeter: that's why I have it in the agenda (-:
stpeter(we need to get some greylisting and other spam-fighting things on atlas while we're at it)
winfriedwondering what will be coming my way, but lets hit it ;-)
m&mwinfried: you can help with tooling (-:
m&mand/or list moderation
m&mstpeter: does the editor team need to be involved with that anti-spam effort?
winfriedthats ok, was just wondering what list moderation would end me up with ;-)
m&mwinfried: so far, it's periodically checking the editor@ list and junking a bunch of emails
m&mreally not more than once a day
stpeterm&m I don't think so
winfriedok
m&mstandards@ has maybe one thing a week that needs attention
m&mfrom what I've noticed
m&mok, we're behind schedule
winfriedyup
m&many more on access?
winfriednope
Lloyd(shake)
AshDon't think so
m&mthere is a wiki that Steffan got started, so we can capture some of the decisions made here on that page
m&mmoving on
m&m3) Outstanding Work
------------------------------
+ BOSH
+ Deferred XEPs
+ Website updates
Ash+ XEP-0060
winfriedBOSH: I send a patch to the editor@ fixing a minor type
winfrieds/type/typo/
m&mwinfried: as soon as possible, please (-:
m&mThere is a list of XEP to defer
winfriedsend it on feb 17th
winfriedwill resend it...
m&moh, send not sent
m&mah
m&myes, please … it probably got lost in the shuffle from stpeter to !stpeter (-:
stpeternod
winfried(and I don;t have rights) After that BOSH can be voted upon for final
m&mstpeter: you have the list of XEPs to defer handy?
stpeterm&m: yep, please hold
m&mwinfried: /nod
m&mI suggest that we deal with deferment once a month
AshSounds sensible
m&mit means some Experimental XEPs will have extended times, but that seems fine to me
winfriedthat is already current practice not?
m&mwinfried: the current practice is that stpeter gets to the deferred XEPs when he can (-:
stpeterthe only XEPs to be deferred that I see are 305, 316, and 317
m&mwe'll try to be a little more regular with it
m&mstpeter: thanks
m&mfor website, I think the only thing left right now is automation, which we already discussed
m&mall the other WP updates I had in my local .todo have been taken care of
winfriedfor my picture: who has access and can work on the current queue right now?
Lloydnot I
m&mdefinitely myself and stpter
AshNor me
m&mI thought winfried had git access, but I guess that's not the case
winfriednope
m&mI think all of us should have git rights
m&mthen you can ping myself or stpeter for the stuff that requires shell access
m&mat least until we get better automation going
stpeterthat seems fine for now
stpeternod
m&m*hint hint Lloyd (-:
LloydI will start looking into tooling this week and report back via email/next meeting
m&mthanks
m&mAsh: you mentioned XEP-0060 … are the patches pending?
AshNot yet. I have started, but don't have much time.
m&mok, so you're working on patches, but don't have them yet
AshYeah
m&mso there's no action for the rest of the editor team (-:
AshSo not to worry
Ash:)
m&mI think that covers #4
m&mer #3
m&m4) Future Work
------------------------------
+ Automation options
+ Humorous XEP
m&mwe've already figured out automation
LloydAsh, remind me to talk about patches dwd and I discussed last week
m&mregarding a humorous XEP …
AshLloyd: Will do
m&mdo we want to try and do one this year? or does someone already have a writeup ready for council sign-off?
winfriedwell... I suggest we vote on a humorous xep before sxep-0001 is changed :-P
m&mheh
m&mwe need an idea first
stpeterI haven't done one of those in years
stpeterthey were fun, though
winfriedwas thinking about ciricular approving bodies for approving humorous xeps
stpeterin London we got to talking about the morse code transport binding - who needs WebSocket? ;-)
m&mwinfried: (-:
m&meither of those are fine with me
m&mI think I might have been the one to suggest the morse-code transport, too (-:
m&mif something is to come from this body, I think we would need it ready before next Friday (03/21)
m&mit's just under two weeks, but I know I don't have the time myself
winfriedwas brainstorming once with steffen on xmpp over humanpowerd two wheeled pedal transport
winfriedbut I want to have that one implemented before submitting ;-)
m&mhaha
m&mremember — "XEP or it doesn't exist". Someone needs to write it before we can publish
m&many volunteers?
stpeterwhen was the last humorous XEP published?
m&mtakes a look
winfriedto be honest, xmpp over morse code gives me a bit of a feeling: "been there before"
stpeter2009
stpeter2011
m&myes, XEP-0295
winfriedcommentory on some current topic (like the json xep) is great
m&mthat or another security one
winfriedyeah!
m&mthe anti-privacy XEP
stpeterthe problem with humorous XEPs is that you need to be inspired to write one, and I guess I haven't felt inspired in that way since 2009 :(
m&mstpeter: exactly
m&mand I take the lack of a hand or "I'll do it" to mean we have no volunteers to write it
winfriedif someone volunteers with me, I want to write an anti-privacy xep
winfriedgot some great ideas bubbling up
m&mI don't have the time to do that
stpeterthe best humorous specs also have a germ of truth in them
m&mI signed up for too much extra work last week (-:
winfriedneither have I ;-)
stpeterm&m: you did!
m&mok, moving on
m&m5) Next Meeting
------------------------------
winfriedyeah, ping me if anybody wants to be involved
AshAutomated carbons to your local government agency, to save taxpayers money?
Lloyd:)
winfriedyep, that kind of stuff@!
m&mI think this meeting is useful
m&mso we should keep doing it
AshAgree
m&mbut do we need/want to do it weekly or bi-weekly?
winfried+1
stpetershall we add it to the calendar?
m&mmonthly is too long
winfriedagree
m&mstpeter: I think that makes sense
Lloydfortnightly seemed to make sense
Ash+1
LloydAt least until processes/automation settles?
KevFWIW, I think very short meetings frequently make a lot of sense. But that's just me.
m&mLloyd: I was about to suggest weekly until we have automation (-:
winfriedI have to leave right now...
m&mwe're 17 minutes over
winfriedI will read it back in the logs, this time usally fits, otherwise best on monday or friday
m&mis everyone ok with resuming next week?
Lloydm&m fine with that, as long as they aren't all 1hr long :)
m&mno, please no!
m&m30 minutes
AshOK
m&mand I'll have a better agenda for next week, really (-:
m&mok, next meeting on 2014-03-18 @ 16:00 UTC
stpeteryep, cut it off at 30 and we can delay until the next one
m&mexactly
Lloydoh, a pep node for "selfies"
m&mok, I say we're done
m&mbangs gavel
m&mthanks everyone
LloydCool see you all next week - and every working day until then :)
stpeterLloyd: :-)
m&mputs Lloyd on next weeks agenda (-:
AshCheers!
LloydYou can discuss me all you want
m&m(-:
m&mholy crap … I'm already 31 emails behind since I last checked
stpeterBTW I just edited the postfix config a bit on atlas, but no promises that it will help
m&mwhich was just before 16:00 UTC
m&mstpeter: we'll see (-:
m&meveryone, be sure to get Kev your info for git access
LloydKev how best to do this?
KevSend me it gpg signed using the key you had me sign at the summit? ;)