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m&m
T -10 minutes
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winfried
Have to leave in T -5 min :-(
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m&m
boo! )-:
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winfried
good meeting & CU!
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Steffen Larsen
meeting?
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Steffen Larsen
wasn't it now?
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Lloyd
yep
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Steffen Larsen
ohhh ok
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Steffen Larsen
:-)
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m&m
in 2 minutes
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m&m
16:00 UTC
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m&m
ding ding ding!
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m&m
we're missing Winfried with apologies, everyone else here?
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Lloyd
peter?
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Steffen Larsen
ding dong
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Ash
Hello all!
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m&m
just pinged him
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Steffen Larsen
Hi Ash
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m&m
well, I think we have quorum
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Steffen Larsen
jup
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m&m
I should have pushed out an agenda earlier
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m&m
0) Roll Call
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m&m
already have that determined
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m&m
1) Status on Automation Options
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m&m
Lloyd or Ash?
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stpeter
hi
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Ash
I think Lloyd was looking at that
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Steffen Larsen
Hi Stefan
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zeank@jwchat.org
hey ho :)
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Steffen Larsen
Hi StPeter
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stpeter
forgot to log into this account
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m&m
(-:
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m&m
Lloyd: any updates yet on automation options
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m&m
?
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Lloyd
With apologies, I haven't made much progress, I have scribbled notes but nothing worth sharing yet. Its our very busy time at Surevine and I've been snowed under with other projects too.
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m&m
Lloyd: completely understand
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Steffen Larsen
Lloyd: if I can give a hand.. just reach out with your ideas
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Ash
It's coming up to the end of the financial year in the UK, so we're always busy around this time!
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m&m
I might send along some of my personal musings for you all to ridicule and marginalize (-:
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Lloyd
Basic plan is/has been to outline what we can automate, suitable methods of automation. I plan on sharing notes with Steffen Larsen and getting something together properly.
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Steffen Larsen
super
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m&m
awesome
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Lloyd
Intend to share early and build upon it rather than get something concrete first.
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m&m
is it worthwhile to pester you next week about it?
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Lloyd
m&m: would be great to have as well.
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Steffen Larsen
fail first is best. :-)
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Lloyd
I'm good at failing first.
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m&m
(-:
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Steffen Larsen
he he
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Lloyd
m&m please keep pestering, I can always ignore you :)
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m&m
hehe
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m&m
ok, since there's nothing else on automation ...
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m&m
2) outstanding work
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m&m
I think I've gotten all of the requests for ProtoXEPs and Experimental updates out last week, plus BOSH
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m&m
anyone see anything else come in?
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zeank@jwchat.org
\o/ :)
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stpeter
yes, good work m&m!
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m&m
I'm trying! (-:
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Lloyd
:D
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Steffen Larsen
noo I dont think so. But somethines its hard to seperate stuff on the editor list. But great work m&m!
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stpeter
BTW I have been adding XEP authors to the "accepts" list in mailman - makes it easier to sort through all the spam in the queue
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m&m
/nod
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m&m
thanks for that, stpeter
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Steffen Larsen
super
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m&m
and I'm relying on those with list admin privs to help sort the other wheat from chaff
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m&m
I think that includes Winfried and Steffan?
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m&m
did you guys get admin access to at least editor@ yet?
- m&m notes to ask Winfried separately
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Steffen Larsen
need to create key!
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m&m
er, Stefan
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Steffen Larsen
any requirements for the ssh key?
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m&m
one "f", not two
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m&m
(-:
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stpeter
I think it's only me, m&m, and zeank who have list admin privs
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m&m
right
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zeank@jwchat.org
maybe stupid question but why would it be so hard to put a spamfilter in between?
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m&m
I think Winfried volunteered to help with moderating there, too
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stpeter
zeank@jwchat.org: yes, we're thinking about that too :-)
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m&m
and that's a task for the i-team to work on, with whatever approvals they need from the Board
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stpeter
I suppose we could do that just for the editor@ address instead of for the entire mailman install? not sure
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m&m
they are aware of the issues, though
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m&m
stpeter: possibly, since this list is the one with the most impact
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stpeter
all the other lists require subscription in order to post
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m&m
right
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m&m
this is the only one that wants looser posting privs
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m&m
AFAIK
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stpeter
yes
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m&m
alright, since there's nothing else on actual editor work outstanding ...
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m&m
3) Next Meeting
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m&m
I personally find a short weekly meeting worthwhile, so lets assume we have something next week
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Ash
+1
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m&m
same time, or do we want earlier?
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Steffen Larsen
hhmm I need to get home from work
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m&m
16:00 UTC is now 10:00 my time
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Steffen Larsen
so 16UTC is fine for me :-)
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m&m
I know it switches in a couple of weeks for the rest of you
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stpeter
although not for too much longer I suppose
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zeank@jwchat.org
jup
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m&m
well, let's plan on 16:00 UTC for next week, and discuss a possible change when Daylight Savings hits (most of) the rest of the world
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zeank@jwchat.org
ok
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Ash
Add that to next week's agenda
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stpeter
WFM
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m&m
will do
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Ash
Will probably affect the council and board too
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Lloyd
sounds good
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m&m
4) Any Other Business
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m&m
I assumed everything else was stuff we talked about last week, so wasn't a surprise for the unannounced agenda (-:
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m&m
I have an AOB
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stpeter
go for it
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m&m
When it comes to accepting patches
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m&m
one request came from a non-author, and one came without an actual patch file
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m&m
for the non-author, I asked the listed authors if it was ok to accept the patches (and it was)
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m&m
I think that's a reasonable requirement, but it's not documented anywhere that I could see
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Ash
There are some interesting potential issues with that. What if we can't contact any xep authors?
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stpeter
side topic: if the person sent large patches, why not make that person an author?
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m&m
so, my question on this one is — should we update -0143 to be clearer on this?
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m&m
stpeter: I asked the original author that, and he was reluctant
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Steffen Larsen
heh difficult question
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m&m
it is
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stpeter
m&m: I had the same experience before with that spec or a related one, and it strikes me as odd
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m&m
I figured
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m&m
on one hand, adding this person as an author would streamline our process and ease my ethical compass
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m&m
and the owner of the work is the XSF, not the author
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m&m
on the other, I don't want to scare serious contributors off by making (seemingly) arbitrary changes
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Kev
FWIW, I don't think the Editor team is the right group to make decisions about the author list of XEPs.
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zeank@jwchat.org
true
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m&m
Kev: I agree, and in this case, I told them I would bring it to the Council
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stpeter
Ash: we have had authors disappear in the past, and what we do is try to contact them - if that's unsuccessful and someone else wants to become a maintainer, we add the new person
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Lloyd
agree with Kev, we're just update monkies :)
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stpeter
after posting to the standards@ list and all
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m&m
I just think we ought to have this better documented, possibly in a XEP
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stpeter
but yes, some of this might need to be added to XEP-0001 or XEP-0143 or something
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stpeter
+1 to m&m
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Kev
Also FWIW, I think there's a difference betwe 'own' in the legal sense and 'own' in the maintenance sense.
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m&m
Kev: right
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stpeter
yes
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m&m
I think it's within the purview of the editor to make a best effort for maintenance owners
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Steffen Larsen
can you as an owner give your XEP to others for further maintainance ?
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Kev
(I also think it'd be good to have a process for adding authors without the existing authors documented)
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m&m
Steffen Larsen: yes, and that has happened in the past
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Steffen Larsen
ok
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m&m
ok, so I think I see consensus for formalizing a process
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Ash
Would be good to get some of this down and in front of council
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m&m
for now, let's try to think of our arguments, and put them into a XEP format
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Ash
(or board in this case?)
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m&m
My initial thinking is this is a Board matter, but can be readily persuaded in other directions
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Kev
Fuzzy line for me, I'd go along with either.
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m&m
I think it comes down to whether it's most appropriate for this to go into XEP-0001, go into XEP-0143, or go into something new
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m&m
I can bring it up with the council and board tomorrow
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Kev
143 doesn't seem right, to me.
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m&m
Kev: me neither
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Ash
This feels like a 0001 thing to me
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m&m
it feels like a change to 1
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m&m
right
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stpeter
yeah, me too (at the moment)
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m&m
how about we approach the board and council for input before we go too much further
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Kev
Either 1 or a How Editors work XEP.
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Kev
Both/either seem appropriate.
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stpeter
I could also see it go into an Editorial Team Procedures document
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m&m
me, too
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m&m
the non-patch instance was mostly annoying to me, and I think is best handled with an update to XEP-0143 and/or this new "How to Editor" XEP
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m&m
I think XEP-0143 ought to be updated to 2119 mandate an actual patch file
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m&m
so what is the action to be taken from all this discussion
- m&m wants to end already! (-:
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Ash
Depends how we want to accept patches. A gitorious merge request would count (although I suppose that;s just a fancy patch)
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stpeter
"send patches" is a fine policy to me!
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m&m
I do want to be flexible, but we can't be expected to go hunting around
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stpeter
yep
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m&m
it took me almost an hour to suss out what the real changes were for the non-patchfile case
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m&m
well, an hour including the disruptions
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Ash
m&m can we get the main points from this and add them to the agenda next week?
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Steffen Larsen
m&m auch
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m&m
Ash: I want to see if there's something actionable now first
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Steffen Larsen
isn't there any requirements for updates of xeps?
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m&m
Steffen Larsen: 143 provides woefully little requirements on this front
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m&m
and I'm not aware of any others still in existence
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m&m
so actions
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Ash
143 has a whole section about generating patch files
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Steffen Larsen
m&m that should be further specified.. that would ease the workload ALOT!
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Steffen Larsen
Ash: reading
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Ash
Section 4
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Ash
Although it uses the term "prefers"
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m&m
Ash: yes, but I think this is inadequate, and assumes a specific work flow
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m&m
I'm happy to work on an update to this to be more forceful on the patchfile requirements
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Steffen Larsen
cool
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m&m
so that's one action (-:
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Steffen Larsen
would be good
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Steffen Larsen
ha ha yes
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m&m
how about others? Should we approach Council and Board with anything right now?
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Steffen Larsen
Guys.. I need to get out of here and get some food
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m&m
or should we draft a new XEP? Or a proposed update to -0001?
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m&m
Steffen Larsen: I'm trying to end this quickly (-:
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Steffen Larsen
propose an update for 0001 would be great
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Steffen Larsen
ok.. waiting 1 min more. ;-)
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Ash
Update to 0001 makes most sense to me
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m&m
anyone else?
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m&m
ok, that's two for an update to 0001
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m&m
alright, so by next week we should think about who's willing to work on said patch
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Steffen Larsen
ok. bye guys
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m&m
s/think about/decide on/
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Lloyd
later!
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Ash
:)
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Steffen Larsen
cheers and see you next week
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Steffen Larsen
:-)
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m&m
I think that's it, unless you y'all have something else?
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m&m
er … s/you//
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Ash
I can't think what to make for dinner. Does that count?
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m&m
heh
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zeank@jwchat.org
lol
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m&m
I'm going to rule that one out of scope (-:
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m&m
ok, so that's it
- m&m dings bell
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m&m
thanks everyone
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Ash
m&m have they taken your gavel away?
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zeank@jwchat.org
bye bye
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Ash
Bye everyone!
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m&m
Ash: I like to change things up
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Ash
:)
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m&m
maybe next week it'll be a schrödinger observation (-:
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stpeter
oops, I wandered off because I thought we were done :-)
-
m&m
we are now (-:
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stpeter
yeah yeah yeah
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m&m
I've got a start on updates to xep-README on my gitorius fork
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m&m
all of it is breaking out the "login to webserver, and" steps into separate <li/>'s
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m&m
since I keep skipping things in those lists!
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stpeter
yeah I threw those together quickly before the first editor team meeting
-
stpeter
I knew they needed to be broken out separately
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stpeter
m&m: shall I add anyone else as list admins?
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m&m
I think winfried offered to help with moderation
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m&m
Steffan, Lloyd, and Ash were concentrating on automation
- m&m wonders off for lunch before addressing draft-miller-xmpp-e2e feedback
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stpeter
yep
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stpeter
I'll add winfried then
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stpeter
spread the joy :-)
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