XSF Editor Team - 2014-03-18

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  16. m&m T -10 minutes
  17. winfried Have to leave in T -5 min :-(
  18. Steffen Larsen has joined
  19. m&m boo! )-:
  20. winfried good meeting & CU!
  21. winfried has left
  22. Steffen Larsen meeting?
  23. Steffen Larsen wasn't it now?
  24. Lloyd yep
  25. Steffen Larsen ohhh ok
  26. Steffen Larsen :-)
  27. m&m in 2 minutes
  28. m&m 16:00 UTC
  29. m&m ding ding ding!
  30. m&m we're missing Winfried with apologies, everyone else here?
  31. Lloyd peter?
  32. Steffen Larsen ding dong
  33. Ash Hello all!
  34. m&m just pinged him
  35. Steffen Larsen Hi Ash
  36. m&m well, I think we have quorum
  37. Steffen Larsen jup
  38. m&m I should have pushed out an agenda earlier
  39. m&m 0) Roll Call
  40. m&m already have that determined
  41. m&m 1) Status on Automation Options
  42. m&m Lloyd or Ash?
  43. zeank@jwchat.org has joined
  44. stpeter has joined
  45. stpeter hi
  46. Ash I think Lloyd was looking at that
  47. Steffen Larsen Hi Stefan
  48. zeank@jwchat.org hey ho :)
  49. Steffen Larsen Hi StPeter
  50. stpeter forgot to log into this account
  51. m&m (-:
  52. m&m Lloyd: any updates yet on automation options
  53. m&m ?
  54. Lloyd With apologies, I haven't made much progress, I have scribbled notes but nothing worth sharing yet. Its our very busy time at Surevine and I've been snowed under with other projects too.
  55. m&m Lloyd: completely understand
  56. Steffen Larsen Lloyd: if I can give a hand.. just reach out with your ideas
  57. Ash It's coming up to the end of the financial year in the UK, so we're always busy around this time!
  58. m&m I might send along some of my personal musings for you all to ridicule and marginalize (-:
  59. Lloyd Basic plan is/has been to outline what we can automate, suitable methods of automation. I plan on sharing notes with Steffen Larsen and getting something together properly.
  60. Steffen Larsen super
  61. m&m awesome
  62. Lloyd Intend to share early and build upon it rather than get something concrete first.
  63. m&m is it worthwhile to pester you next week about it?
  64. Lloyd m&m: would be great to have as well.
  65. Steffen Larsen fail first is best. :-)
  66. Lloyd I'm good at failing first.
  67. m&m (-:
  68. Steffen Larsen he he
  69. Lloyd m&m please keep pestering, I can always ignore you :)
  70. m&m hehe
  71. m&m ok, since there's nothing else on automation ...
  72. m&m 2) outstanding work
  73. m&m I think I've gotten all of the requests for ProtoXEPs and Experimental updates out last week, plus BOSH
  74. m&m anyone see anything else come in?
  75. zeank@jwchat.org \o/ :)
  76. stpeter yes, good work m&m!
  77. m&m I'm trying! (-:
  78. Lloyd :D
  79. Steffen Larsen noo I dont think so. But somethines its hard to seperate stuff on the editor list. But great work m&m!
  80. stpeter BTW I have been adding XEP authors to the "accepts" list in mailman - makes it easier to sort through all the spam in the queue
  81. m&m /nod
  82. m&m thanks for that, stpeter
  83. Steffen Larsen super
  84. m&m and I'm relying on those with list admin privs to help sort the other wheat from chaff
  85. m&m I think that includes Winfried and Steffan?
  86. m&m did you guys get admin access to at least editor@ yet?
  87. m&m notes to ask Winfried separately
  88. zeank@jwchat.org nods
  89. Steffen Larsen need to create key!
  90. m&m er, Stefan
  91. Steffen Larsen any requirements for the ssh key?
  92. m&m one "f", not two
  93. m&m (-:
  94. stpeter I think it's only me, m&m, and zeank who have list admin privs
  95. m&m right
  96. zeank@jwchat.org maybe stupid question but why would it be so hard to put a spamfilter in between?
  97. m&m I think Winfried volunteered to help with moderating there, too
  98. stpeter zeank@jwchat.org: yes, we're thinking about that too :-)
  99. m&m and that's a task for the i-team to work on, with whatever approvals they need from the Board
  100. stpeter I suppose we could do that just for the editor@ address instead of for the entire mailman install? not sure
  101. m&m they are aware of the issues, though
  102. m&m stpeter: possibly, since this list is the one with the most impact
  103. stpeter all the other lists require subscription in order to post
  104. m&m right
  105. m&m this is the only one that wants looser posting privs
  106. m&m AFAIK
  107. stpeter yes
  108. m&m alright, since there's nothing else on actual editor work outstanding ...
  109. m&m 3) Next Meeting
  110. m&m I personally find a short weekly meeting worthwhile, so lets assume we have something next week
  111. Ash +1
  112. m&m same time, or do we want earlier?
  113. Steffen Larsen hhmm I need to get home from work
  114. m&m 16:00 UTC is now 10:00 my time
  115. Steffen Larsen so 16UTC is fine for me :-)
  116. m&m I know it switches in a couple of weeks for the rest of you
  117. stpeter although not for too much longer I suppose
  118. zeank@jwchat.org jup
  119. m&m well, let's plan on 16:00 UTC for next week, and discuss a possible change when Daylight Savings hits (most of) the rest of the world
  120. zeank@jwchat.org ok
  121. Ash Add that to next week's agenda
  122. stpeter WFM
  123. m&m will do
  124. Ash Will probably affect the council and board too
  125. Lloyd sounds good
  126. m&m 4) Any Other Business
  127. m&m I assumed everything else was stuff we talked about last week, so wasn't a surprise for the unannounced agenda (-:
  128. m&m I have an AOB
  129. stpeter go for it
  130. m&m When it comes to accepting patches
  131. m&m one request came from a non-author, and one came without an actual patch file
  132. m&m for the non-author, I asked the listed authors if it was ok to accept the patches (and it was)
  133. m&m I think that's a reasonable requirement, but it's not documented anywhere that I could see
  134. Ash There are some interesting potential issues with that. What if we can't contact any xep authors?
  135. stpeter side topic: if the person sent large patches, why not make that person an author?
  136. m&m so, my question on this one is — should we update -0143 to be clearer on this?
  137. m&m stpeter: I asked the original author that, and he was reluctant
  138. Steffen Larsen heh difficult question
  139. m&m it is
  140. stpeter m&m: I had the same experience before with that spec or a related one, and it strikes me as odd
  141. m&m I figured
  142. m&m on one hand, adding this person as an author would streamline our process and ease my ethical compass
  143. m&m and the owner of the work is the XSF, not the author
  144. m&m on the other, I don't want to scare serious contributors off by making (seemingly) arbitrary changes
  145. Kev FWIW, I don't think the Editor team is the right group to make decisions about the author list of XEPs.
  146. zeank@jwchat.org true
  147. m&m Kev: I agree, and in this case, I told them I would bring it to the Council
  148. stpeter Ash: we have had authors disappear in the past, and what we do is try to contact them - if that's unsuccessful and someone else wants to become a maintainer, we add the new person
  149. Lloyd agree with Kev, we're just update monkies :)
  150. stpeter after posting to the standards@ list and all
  151. m&m I just think we ought to have this better documented, possibly in a XEP
  152. stpeter but yes, some of this might need to be added to XEP-0001 or XEP-0143 or something
  153. stpeter +1 to m&m
  154. Kev Also FWIW, I think there's a difference betwe 'own' in the legal sense and 'own' in the maintenance sense.
  155. m&m Kev: right
  156. stpeter yes
  157. m&m I think it's within the purview of the editor to make a best effort for maintenance owners
  158. Steffen Larsen can you as an owner give your XEP to others for further maintainance ?
  159. Kev (I also think it'd be good to have a process for adding authors without the existing authors documented)
  160. m&m Steffen Larsen: yes, and that has happened in the past
  161. Steffen Larsen ok
  162. m&m ok, so I think I see consensus for formalizing a process
  163. Ash Would be good to get some of this down and in front of council
  164. m&m for now, let's try to think of our arguments, and put them into a XEP format
  165. Ash (or board in this case?)
  166. m&m My initial thinking is this is a Board matter, but can be readily persuaded in other directions
  167. Kev Fuzzy line for me, I'd go along with either.
  168. m&m I think it comes down to whether it's most appropriate for this to go into XEP-0001, go into XEP-0143, or go into something new
  169. m&m I can bring it up with the council and board tomorrow
  170. Kev 143 doesn't seem right, to me.
  171. m&m Kev: me neither
  172. Ash This feels like a 0001 thing to me
  173. m&m it feels like a change to 1
  174. m&m right
  175. stpeter yeah, me too (at the moment)
  176. m&m how about we approach the board and council for input before we go too much further
  177. Kev Either 1 or a How Editors work XEP.
  178. Kev Both/either seem appropriate.
  179. stpeter I could also see it go into an Editorial Team Procedures document
  180. m&m me, too
  181. m&m the non-patch instance was mostly annoying to me, and I think is best handled with an update to XEP-0143 and/or this new "How to Editor" XEP
  182. m&m I think XEP-0143 ought to be updated to 2119 mandate an actual patch file
  183. m&m so what is the action to be taken from all this discussion
  184. m&m wants to end already! (-:
  185. Ash Depends how we want to accept patches. A gitorious merge request would count (although I suppose that;s just a fancy patch)
  186. stpeter "send patches" is a fine policy to me!
  187. m&m I do want to be flexible, but we can't be expected to go hunting around
  188. stpeter yep
  189. m&m it took me almost an hour to suss out what the real changes were for the non-patchfile case
  190. m&m well, an hour including the disruptions
  191. Ash m&m can we get the main points from this and add them to the agenda next week?
  192. Steffen Larsen m&m auch
  193. m&m Ash: I want to see if there's something actionable now first
  194. Steffen Larsen isn't there any requirements for updates of xeps?
  195. m&m Steffen Larsen: 143 provides woefully little requirements on this front
  196. m&m and I'm not aware of any others still in existence
  197. m&m so actions
  198. Ash 143 has a whole section about generating patch files
  199. Steffen Larsen m&m that should be further specified.. that would ease the workload ALOT!
  200. Steffen Larsen Ash: reading
  201. Ash Section 4
  202. Ash Although it uses the term "prefers"
  203. m&m Ash: yes, but I think this is inadequate, and assumes a specific work flow
  204. m&m I'm happy to work on an update to this to be more forceful on the patchfile requirements
  205. Steffen Larsen cool
  206. m&m so that's one action (-:
  207. Steffen Larsen would be good
  208. Steffen Larsen ha ha yes
  209. m&m how about others? Should we approach Council and Board with anything right now?
  210. Steffen Larsen Guys.. I need to get out of here and get some food
  211. m&m or should we draft a new XEP? Or a proposed update to -0001?
  212. m&m Steffen Larsen: I'm trying to end this quickly (-:
  213. Steffen Larsen propose an update for 0001 would be great
  214. Steffen Larsen ok.. waiting 1 min more. ;-)
  215. Ash Update to 0001 makes most sense to me
  216. m&m anyone else?
  217. m&m ok, that's two for an update to 0001
  218. m&m alright, so by next week we should think about who's willing to work on said patch
  219. Steffen Larsen ok. bye guys
  220. m&m s/think about/decide on/
  221. Lloyd later!
  222. Ash :)
  223. Steffen Larsen cheers and see you next week
  224. Steffen Larsen :-)
  225. m&m I think that's it, unless you y'all have something else?
  226. m&m er … s/you//
  227. Steffen Larsen has left
  228. Ash I can't think what to make for dinner. Does that count?
  229. m&m heh
  230. zeank@jwchat.org lol
  231. m&m I'm going to rule that one out of scope (-:
  232. m&m ok, so that's it
  233. m&m dings bell
  234. m&m thanks everyone
  235. Ash m&m have they taken your gavel away?
  236. zeank@jwchat.org bye bye
  237. zeank@jwchat.org has left
  238. Ash Bye everyone!
  239. m&m Ash: I like to change things up
  240. Ash :)
  241. m&m maybe next week it'll be a schrödinger observation (-:
  242. stpeter oops, I wandered off because I thought we were done :-)
  243. m&m we are now (-:
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  248. stpeter yeah yeah yeah
  249. m&m I've got a start on updates to xep-README on my gitorius fork
  250. m&m all of it is breaking out the "login to webserver, and" steps into separate <li/>'s
  251. m&m since I keep skipping things in those lists!
  252. stpeter yeah I threw those together quickly before the first editor team meeting
  253. stpeter I knew they needed to be broken out separately
  254. stpeter m&m: shall I add anyone else as list admins?
  255. m&m I think winfried offered to help with moderation
  256. m&m Steffan, Lloyd, and Ash were concentrating on automation
  257. m&m wonders off for lunch before addressing draft-miller-xmpp-e2e feedback
  258. stpeter yep
  259. stpeter I'll add winfried then
  260. stpeter spread the joy :-)
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