m&mwe're missing Winfried with apologies, everyone else here?
Lloydpeter?
Steffen Larsending dong
AshHello all!
m&mjust pinged him
Steffen LarsenHi Ash
m&mwell, I think we have quorum
Steffen Larsenjup
m&mI should have pushed out an agenda earlier
m&m0) Roll Call
m&malready have that determined
m&m1) Status on Automation Options
m&mLloyd or Ash?
zeank@jwchat.orghas joined
stpeterhas joined
stpeterhi
AshI think Lloyd was looking at that
Steffen LarsenHi Stefan
zeank@jwchat.orghey ho :)
Steffen LarsenHi StPeter
stpeterforgot to log into this account
m&m(-:
m&mLloyd: any updates yet on automation options
m&m?
LloydWith apologies, I haven't made much progress, I have scribbled notes but nothing worth sharing yet. Its our very busy time at Surevine and I've been snowed under with other projects too.
m&mLloyd: completely understand
Steffen LarsenLloyd: if I can give a hand.. just reach out with your ideas
AshIt's coming up to the end of the financial year in the UK, so we're always busy around this time!
m&mI might send along some of my personal musings for you all to ridicule and marginalize (-:
LloydBasic plan is/has been to outline what we can automate, suitable methods of automation. I plan on sharing notes with Steffen Larsen and getting something together properly.
Steffen Larsensuper
m&mawesome
LloydIntend to share early and build upon it rather than get something concrete first.
m&mis it worthwhile to pester you next week about it?
Lloydm&m: would be great to have as well.
Steffen Larsenfail first is best. :-)
LloydI'm good at failing first.
m&m(-:
Steffen Larsenhe he
Lloydm&m please keep pestering, I can always ignore you :)
m&mhehe
m&mok, since there's nothing else on automation ...
m&m2) outstanding work
m&mI think I've gotten all of the requests for ProtoXEPs and Experimental updates out last week, plus BOSH
m&manyone see anything else come in?
zeank@jwchat.org\o/ :)
stpeteryes, good work m&m!
m&mI'm trying! (-:
Lloyd:D
Steffen Larsennoo I dont think so. But somethines its hard to seperate stuff on the editor list. But great work m&m!
stpeterBTW I have been adding XEP authors to the "accepts" list in mailman - makes it easier to sort through all the spam in the queue
m&m/nod
m&mthanks for that, stpeter
Steffen Larsensuper
m&mand I'm relying on those with list admin privs to help sort the other wheat from chaff
m&mI think that includes Winfried and Steffan?
m&mdid you guys get admin access to at least editor@ yet?
m&mnotes to ask Winfried separately
zeank@jwchat.orgnods
Steffen Larsenneed to create key!
m&mer, Stefan
Steffen Larsenany requirements for the ssh key?
m&mone "f", not two
m&m(-:
stpeterI think it's only me, m&m, and zeank who have list admin privs
m&mright
zeank@jwchat.orgmaybe stupid question but why would it be so hard to put a spamfilter in between?
m&mI think Winfried volunteered to help with moderating there, too
stpeterzeank@jwchat.org: yes, we're thinking about that too :-)
m&mand that's a task for the i-team to work on, with whatever approvals they need from the Board
stpeterI suppose we could do that just for the editor@ address instead of for the entire mailman install? not sure
m&mthey are aware of the issues, though
m&mstpeter: possibly, since this list is the one with the most impact
stpeterall the other lists require subscription in order to post
m&mright
m&mthis is the only one that wants looser posting privs
m&mAFAIK
stpeteryes
m&malright, since there's nothing else on actual editor work outstanding ...
m&m3) Next Meeting
m&mI personally find a short weekly meeting worthwhile, so lets assume we have something next week
Ash+1
m&msame time, or do we want earlier?
Steffen Larsenhhmm I need to get home from work
m&m16:00 UTC is now 10:00 my time
Steffen Larsenso 16UTC is fine for me :-)
m&mI know it switches in a couple of weeks for the rest of you
stpeteralthough not for too much longer I suppose
zeank@jwchat.orgjup
m&mwell, let's plan on 16:00 UTC for next week, and discuss a possible change when Daylight Savings hits (most of) the rest of the world
zeank@jwchat.orgok
AshAdd that to next week's agenda
stpeterWFM
m&mwill do
AshWill probably affect the council and board too
Lloydsounds good
m&m4) Any Other Business
m&mI assumed everything else was stuff we talked about last week, so wasn't a surprise for the unannounced agenda (-:
m&mI have an AOB
stpetergo for it
m&mWhen it comes to accepting patches
m&mone request came from a non-author, and one came without an actual patch file
m&mfor the non-author, I asked the listed authors if it was ok to accept the patches (and it was)
m&mI think that's a reasonable requirement, but it's not documented anywhere that I could see
AshThere are some interesting potential issues with that. What if we can't contact any xep authors?
stpeterside topic: if the person sent large patches, why not make that person an author?
m&mso, my question on this one is — should we update -0143 to be clearer on this?
m&mstpeter: I asked the original author that, and he was reluctant
Steffen Larsenheh difficult question
m&mit is
stpeterm&m: I had the same experience before with that spec or a related one, and it strikes me as odd
m&mI figured
m&mon one hand, adding this person as an author would streamline our process and ease my ethical compass
m&mand the owner of the work is the XSF, not the author
m&mon the other, I don't want to scare serious contributors off by making (seemingly) arbitrary changes
KevFWIW, I don't think the Editor team is the right group to make decisions about the author list of XEPs.
zeank@jwchat.orgtrue
m&mKev: I agree, and in this case, I told them I would bring it to the Council
stpeterAsh: we have had authors disappear in the past, and what we do is try to contact them - if that's unsuccessful and someone else wants to become a maintainer, we add the new person
Lloydagree with Kev, we're just update monkies :)
stpeterafter posting to the standards@ list and all
m&mI just think we ought to have this better documented, possibly in a XEP
stpeterbut yes, some of this might need to be added to XEP-0001 or XEP-0143 or something
stpeter+1 to m&m
KevAlso FWIW, I think there's a difference betwe 'own' in the legal sense and 'own' in the maintenance sense.
m&mKev: right
stpeteryes
m&mI think it's within the purview of the editor to make a best effort for maintenance owners
Steffen Larsencan you as an owner give your XEP to others for further maintainance ?
Kev(I also think it'd be good to have a process for adding authors without the existing authors documented)
m&mSteffen Larsen: yes, and that has happened in the past
Steffen Larsenok
m&mok, so I think I see consensus for formalizing a process
AshWould be good to get some of this down and in front of council
m&mfor now, let's try to think of our arguments, and put them into a XEP format
Ash(or board in this case?)
m&mMy initial thinking is this is a Board matter, but can be readily persuaded in other directions
KevFuzzy line for me, I'd go along with either.
m&mI think it comes down to whether it's most appropriate for this to go into XEP-0001, go into XEP-0143, or go into something new
m&mI can bring it up with the council and board tomorrow
Kev143 doesn't seem right, to me.
m&mKev: me neither
AshThis feels like a 0001 thing to me
m&mit feels like a change to 1
m&mright
stpeteryeah, me too (at the moment)
m&mhow about we approach the board and council for input before we go too much further
KevEither 1 or a How Editors work XEP.
KevBoth/either seem appropriate.
stpeterI could also see it go into an Editorial Team Procedures document
m&mme, too
m&mthe non-patch instance was mostly annoying to me, and I think is best handled with an update to XEP-0143 and/or this new "How to Editor" XEP
m&mI think XEP-0143 ought to be updated to 2119 mandate an actual patch file
m&mso what is the action to be taken from all this discussion
m&mwants to end already! (-:
AshDepends how we want to accept patches. A gitorious merge request would count (although I suppose that;s just a fancy patch)
stpeter"send patches" is a fine policy to me!
m&mI do want to be flexible, but we can't be expected to go hunting around
stpeteryep
m&mit took me almost an hour to suss out what the real changes were for the non-patchfile case
m&mwell, an hour including the disruptions
Ashm&m can we get the main points from this and add them to the agenda next week?
Steffen Larsenm&m auch
m&mAsh: I want to see if there's something actionable now first
Steffen Larsenisn't there any requirements for updates of xeps?
m&mSteffen Larsen: 143 provides woefully little requirements on this front
m&mand I'm not aware of any others still in existence
m&mso actions
Ash143 has a whole section about generating patch files
Steffen Larsenm&m that should be further specified.. that would ease the workload ALOT!
Steffen LarsenAsh: reading
AshSection 4
AshAlthough it uses the term "prefers"
m&mAsh: yes, but I think this is inadequate, and assumes a specific work flow
m&mI'm happy to work on an update to this to be more forceful on the patchfile requirements
Steffen Larsencool
m&mso that's one action (-:
Steffen Larsenwould be good
Steffen Larsenha ha yes
m&mhow about others? Should we approach Council and Board with anything right now?
Steffen LarsenGuys.. I need to get out of here and get some food
m&mor should we draft a new XEP? Or a proposed update to -0001?
m&mSteffen Larsen: I'm trying to end this quickly (-:
Steffen Larsenpropose an update for 0001 would be great
Steffen Larsenok.. waiting 1 min more. ;-)
AshUpdate to 0001 makes most sense to me
m&manyone else?
m&mok, that's two for an update to 0001
m&malright, so by next week we should think about who's willing to work on said patch
Steffen Larsenok. bye guys
m&ms/think about/decide on/
Lloydlater!
Ash:)
Steffen Larsencheers and see you next week
Steffen Larsen:-)
m&mI think that's it, unless you y'all have something else?
m&mer … s/you//
Steffen Larsenhas left
AshI can't think what to make for dinner. Does that count?
m&mheh
zeank@jwchat.orglol
m&mI'm going to rule that one out of scope (-:
m&mok, so that's it
m&mdings bell
m&mthanks everyone
Ashm&m have they taken your gavel away?
zeank@jwchat.orgbye bye
zeank@jwchat.orghas left
AshBye everyone!
m&mAsh: I like to change things up
Ash:)
m&mmaybe next week it'll be a schrödinger observation (-:
stpeteroops, I wandered off because I thought we were done :-)
m&mwe are now (-:
Simonhas left
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stpeteryeah yeah yeah
m&mI've got a start on updates to xep-README on my gitorius fork
m&mall of it is breaking out the "login to webserver, and" steps into separate <li/>'s
m&msince I keep skipping things in those lists!
stpeteryeah I threw those together quickly before the first editor team meeting
stpeterI knew they needed to be broken out separately
stpeterm&m: shall I add anyone else as list admins?
m&mI think winfried offered to help with moderation
m&mSteffan, Lloyd, and Ash were concentrating on automation
m&mwonders off for lunch before addressing draft-miller-xmpp-e2e feedback