XSF Editor Team - 2014-03-18

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15:53:07 m&m T -10 minutes
15:53:28 winfried Have to leave in T -5 min :-(
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15:56:41 m&m boo! )-:
15:58:56 winfried good meeting & CU!
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15:59:23 Steffen Larsen meeting?
15:59:28 Steffen Larsen wasn't it now?
16:00:09 Lloyd yep
16:00:17 Steffen Larsen ohhh ok
16:00:18 Steffen Larsen :-)
16:00:50 m&m in 2 minutes
16:00:55 m&m 16:00 UTC
16:03:13 m&m ding ding ding!
16:03:30 m&m we're missing Winfried with apologies, everyone else here?
16:03:45 Lloyd peter?
16:03:46 Steffen Larsen ding dong
16:04:13 Ash Hello all!
16:04:16 m&m just pinged him
16:04:19 Steffen Larsen Hi Ash
16:04:38 m&m well, I think we have quorum
16:04:51 Steffen Larsen jup
16:05:02 m&m I should have pushed out an agenda earlier
16:05:08 m&m 0) Roll Call
16:05:17 m&m already have that determined
16:05:26 m&m 1) Status on Automation Options
16:05:32 m&m Lloyd or Ash?
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16:05:43 stpeter hi
16:05:44 Ash I think Lloyd was looking at that
16:05:45 Steffen Larsen Hi Stefan
16:05:50 zeank@jwchat.org hey ho :)
16:05:51 Steffen Larsen Hi StPeter
16:06:02 stpeter forgot to log into this account
16:06:10 m&m (-:
16:06:19 m&m Lloyd: any updates yet on automation options
16:06:21 m&m ?
16:06:31 Lloyd With apologies, I haven't made much progress, I have scribbled notes but nothing worth sharing yet. Its our very busy time at Surevine and I've been snowed under with other projects too.
16:06:50 m&m Lloyd: completely understand
16:07:04 Steffen Larsen Lloyd: if I can give a hand.. just reach out with your ideas
16:07:11 Ash It's coming up to the end of the financial year in the UK, so we're always busy around this time!
16:07:14 m&m I might send along some of my personal musings for you all to ridicule and marginalize (-:
16:07:21 Lloyd Basic plan is/has been to outline what we can automate, suitable methods of automation. I plan on sharing notes with Steffen Larsen and getting something together properly.
16:07:27 Steffen Larsen super
16:07:34 m&m awesome
16:07:47 Lloyd Intend to share early and build upon it rather than get something concrete first.
16:08:09 m&m is it worthwhile to pester you next week about it?
16:08:12 Lloyd m&m: would be great to have as well.
16:08:14 Steffen Larsen fail first is best. :-)
16:08:22 Lloyd I'm good at failing first.
16:08:27 m&m (-:
16:08:28 Steffen Larsen he he
16:08:32 Lloyd m&m please keep pestering, I can always ignore you :)
16:08:54 m&m hehe
16:09:05 m&m ok, since there's nothing else on automation ...
16:09:11 m&m 2) outstanding work
16:09:30 m&m I think I've gotten all of the requests for ProtoXEPs and Experimental updates out last week, plus BOSH
16:09:43 m&m anyone see anything else come in?
16:09:44 zeank@jwchat.org \o/ :)
16:09:53 stpeter yes, good work m&m!
16:10:00 m&m I'm trying! (-:
16:10:15 Lloyd :D
16:10:19 Steffen Larsen noo I dont think so. But somethines its hard to seperate stuff on the editor list. But great work m&m!
16:11:02 stpeter BTW I have been adding XEP authors to the "accepts" list in mailman - makes it easier to sort through all the spam in the queue
16:11:20 m&m /nod
16:11:26 m&m thanks for that, stpeter
16:11:33 Steffen Larsen super
16:11:51 m&m and I'm relying on those with list admin privs to help sort the other wheat from chaff
16:11:59 m&m I think that includes Winfried and Steffan?
16:12:11 m&m did you guys get admin access to at least editor@ yet?
16:12:21 m&m notes to ask Winfried separately
16:12:58 zeank@jwchat.org nods
16:13:00 Steffen Larsen need to create key!
16:13:03 m&m er, Stefan
16:13:09 Steffen Larsen any requirements for the ssh key?
16:13:13 m&m one "f", not two
16:13:15 m&m (-:
16:13:15 stpeter I think it's only me, m&m, and zeank who have list admin privs
16:13:19 m&m right
16:13:29 zeank@jwchat.org maybe stupid question but why would it be so hard to put a spamfilter in between?
16:13:33 m&m I think Winfried volunteered to help with moderating there, too
16:13:49 stpeter zeank@jwchat.org: yes, we're thinking about that too :-)
16:14:36 m&m and that's a task for the i-team to work on, with whatever approvals they need from the Board
16:14:45 stpeter I suppose we could do that just for the editor@ address instead of for the entire mailman install? not sure
16:14:46 m&m they are aware of the issues, though
16:15:15 m&m stpeter: possibly, since this list is the one with the most impact
16:15:31 stpeter all the other lists require subscription in order to post
16:15:35 m&m right
16:15:53 m&m this is the only one that wants looser posting privs
16:16:01 m&m AFAIK
16:16:21 stpeter yes
16:16:25 m&m alright, since there's nothing else on actual editor work outstanding ...
16:16:31 m&m 3) Next Meeting
16:17:01 m&m I personally find a short weekly meeting worthwhile, so lets assume we have something next week
16:17:07 Ash +1
16:17:14 m&m same time, or do we want earlier?
16:17:30 Steffen Larsen hhmm I need to get home from work
16:17:35 m&m 16:00 UTC is now 10:00 my time
16:17:42 Steffen Larsen so 16UTC is fine for me :-)
16:17:48 m&m I know it switches in a couple of weeks for the rest of you
16:17:49 stpeter although not for too much longer I suppose
16:17:49 zeank@jwchat.org jup
16:18:33 m&m well, let's plan on 16:00 UTC for next week, and discuss a possible change when Daylight Savings hits (most of) the rest of the world
16:18:52 zeank@jwchat.org ok
16:18:57 Ash Add that to next week's agenda
16:18:59 stpeter WFM
16:19:01 m&m will do
16:19:09 Ash Will probably affect the council and board too
16:19:12 Lloyd sounds good
16:19:28 m&m 4) Any Other Business
16:19:48 m&m I assumed everything else was stuff we talked about last week, so wasn't a surprise for the unannounced agenda (-:
16:20:00 m&m I have an AOB
16:20:12 stpeter go for it
16:20:13 m&m When it comes to accepting patches
16:20:55 m&m one request came from a non-author, and one came without an actual patch file
16:21:29 m&m for the non-author, I asked the listed authors if it was ok to accept the patches (and it was)
16:21:40 m&m I think that's a reasonable requirement, but it's not documented anywhere that I could see
16:22:04 Ash There are some interesting potential issues with that. What if we can't contact any xep authors?
16:22:14 stpeter side topic: if the person sent large patches, why not make that person an author?
16:22:17 m&m so, my question on this one is — should we update -0143 to be clearer on this?
16:22:36 m&m stpeter: I asked the original author that, and he was reluctant
16:22:50 Steffen Larsen heh difficult question
16:22:54 m&m it is
16:22:58 stpeter m&m: I had the same experience before with that spec or a related one, and it strikes me as odd
16:23:06 m&m I figured
16:23:28 m&m on one hand, adding this person as an author would streamline our process and ease my ethical compass
16:23:40 m&m and the owner of the work is the XSF, not the author
16:24:14 m&m on the other, I don't want to scare serious contributors off by making (seemingly) arbitrary changes
16:24:37 Kev FWIW, I don't think the Editor team is the right group to make decisions about the author list of XEPs.
16:24:51 zeank@jwchat.org true
16:24:56 m&m Kev: I agree, and in this case, I told them I would bring it to the Council
16:25:14 stpeter Ash: we have had authors disappear in the past, and what we do is try to contact them - if that's unsuccessful and someone else wants to become a maintainer, we add the new person
16:25:28 Lloyd agree with Kev, we're just update monkies :)
16:25:33 stpeter after posting to the standards@ list and all
16:25:59 m&m I just think we ought to have this better documented, possibly in a XEP
16:26:01 stpeter but yes, some of this might need to be added to XEP-0001 or XEP-0143 or something
16:26:07 stpeter +1 to m&m
16:26:12 Kev Also FWIW, I think there's a difference betwe 'own' in the legal sense and 'own' in the maintenance sense.
16:26:20 m&m Kev: right
16:26:24 stpeter yes
16:26:42 m&m I think it's within the purview of the editor to make a best effort for maintenance owners
16:27:12 Steffen Larsen can you as an owner give your XEP to others for further maintainance ?
16:27:22 Kev (I also think it'd be good to have a process for adding authors without the existing authors documented)
16:27:23 m&m Steffen Larsen: yes, and that has happened in the past
16:27:29 Steffen Larsen ok
16:28:14 m&m ok, so I think I see consensus for formalizing a process
16:28:44 Ash Would be good to get some of this down and in front of council
16:28:44 m&m for now, let's try to think of our arguments, and put them into a XEP format
16:28:59 Ash (or board in this case?)
16:29:51 m&m My initial thinking is this is a Board matter, but can be readily persuaded in other directions
16:30:16 Kev Fuzzy line for me, I'd go along with either.
16:30:34 m&m I think it comes down to whether it's most appropriate for this to go into XEP-0001, go into XEP-0143, or go into something new
16:30:53 m&m I can bring it up with the council and board tomorrow
16:30:58 Kev 143 doesn't seem right, to me.
16:31:09 m&m Kev: me neither
16:31:25 Ash This feels like a 0001 thing to me
16:31:26 m&m it feels like a change to 1
16:31:28 m&m right
16:31:43 stpeter yeah, me too (at the moment)
16:31:48 m&m how about we approach the board and council for input before we go too much further
16:31:50 Kev Either 1 or a How Editors work XEP.
16:32:00 Kev Both/either seem appropriate.
16:32:18 stpeter I could also see it go into an Editorial Team Procedures document
16:32:24 m&m me, too
16:33:26 m&m the non-patch instance was mostly annoying to me, and I think is best handled with an update to XEP-0143 and/or this new "How to Editor" XEP
16:33:59 m&m I think XEP-0143 ought to be updated to 2119 mandate an actual patch file
16:34:52 m&m so what is the action to be taken from all this discussion
16:35:01 m&m wants to end already! (-:
16:35:02 Ash Depends how we want to accept patches. A gitorious merge request would count (although I suppose that;s just a fancy patch)
16:35:55 stpeter "send patches" is a fine policy to me!
16:35:56 m&m I do want to be flexible, but we can't be expected to go hunting around
16:36:02 stpeter yep
16:36:26 m&m it took me almost an hour to suss out what the real changes were for the non-patchfile case
16:36:39 m&m well, an hour including the disruptions
16:36:55 Ash m&m can we get the main points from this and add them to the agenda next week?
16:37:12 Steffen Larsen m&m auch
16:37:25 m&m Ash: I want to see if there's something actionable now first
16:37:28 Steffen Larsen isn't there any requirements for updates of xeps?
16:38:01 m&m Steffen Larsen: 143 provides woefully little requirements on this front
16:38:22 m&m and I'm not aware of any others still in existence
16:38:43 m&m so actions
16:38:45 Ash 143 has a whole section about generating patch files
16:38:50 Steffen Larsen m&m that should be further specified.. that would ease the workload ALOT!
16:39:05 Steffen Larsen Ash: reading
16:39:14 Ash Section 4
16:39:25 Ash Although it uses the term "prefers"
16:39:43 m&m Ash: yes, but I think this is inadequate, and assumes a specific work flow
16:40:09 m&m I'm happy to work on an update to this to be more forceful on the patchfile requirements
16:40:33 Steffen Larsen cool
16:40:36 m&m so that's one action (-:
16:40:36 Steffen Larsen would be good
16:40:40 Steffen Larsen ha ha yes
16:40:51 m&m how about others? Should we approach Council and Board with anything right now?
16:41:09 Steffen Larsen Guys.. I need to get out of here and get some food
16:41:10 m&m or should we draft a new XEP? Or a proposed update to -0001?
16:41:20 m&m Steffen Larsen: I'm trying to end this quickly (-:
16:41:24 Steffen Larsen propose an update for 0001 would be great
16:41:30 Steffen Larsen ok.. waiting 1 min more. ;-)
16:41:45 Ash Update to 0001 makes most sense to me
16:41:48 m&m anyone else?
16:41:58 m&m ok, that's two for an update to 0001
16:42:29 m&m alright, so by next week we should think about who's willing to work on said patch
16:42:39 Steffen Larsen ok. bye guys
16:42:39 m&m s/think about/decide on/
16:42:46 Lloyd later!
16:42:47 Ash :)
16:42:48 Steffen Larsen cheers and see you next week
16:42:50 Steffen Larsen :-)
16:42:52 m&m I think that's it, unless you y'all have something else?
16:43:01 m&m er … s/you//
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16:43:26 Ash I can't think what to make for dinner. Does that count?
16:43:32 m&m heh
16:43:37 zeank@jwchat.org lol
16:43:43 m&m I'm going to rule that one out of scope (-:
16:43:56 m&m ok, so that's it
16:44:01 m&m dings bell
16:44:06 m&m thanks everyone
16:44:17 Ash m&m have they taken your gavel away?
16:44:30 zeank@jwchat.org bye bye
16:44:37 zeank@jwchat.org has left
16:44:38 Ash Bye everyone!
16:44:39 m&m Ash: I like to change things up
16:44:58 Ash :)
16:45:01 m&m maybe next week it'll be a schrödinger observation (-:
16:52:22 stpeter oops, I wandered off because I thought we were done :-)
17:00:40 m&m we are now (-:
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17:44:53 stpeter yeah yeah yeah
17:50:44 m&m I've got a start on updates to xep-README on my gitorius fork
17:51:18 m&m all of it is breaking out the "login to webserver, and" steps into separate <li/>'s
17:51:38 m&m since I keep skipping things in those lists!
17:56:17 stpeter yeah I threw those together quickly before the first editor team meeting
17:56:27 stpeter I knew they needed to be broken out separately
18:02:48 stpeter m&m: shall I add anyone else as list admins?
18:05:30 m&m I think winfried offered to help with moderation
18:05:50 m&m Steffan, Lloyd, and Ash were concentrating on automation
18:06:25 m&m wonders off for lunch before addressing draft-miller-xmpp-e2e feedback
18:09:42 stpeter yep
18:09:50 stpeter I'll add winfried then
18:09:54 stpeter spread the joy :-)
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