Ge0rGWhat do you do if a join presence to a MUC times out? If you are just on a slow network, eventually the join will complete. If the remote MUC server is down, you don't quite know.
KevSwift says something like "No response has been received yet, maybe you're never going to join".
Kev(Not those exact words)
Ge0rG(using a library with a "hard" timeout isn't exactly helping, btw)
KevThere's almost no instance in XMPP where a hard timeout is helpful at the protocol level.
Ge0rGI wondered why my message parser was crashing on a null pointer dereference, but it was because the join didn't complete in 30s before that, and thus the controller object was decomissioned.
Ge0rGKev: establishing a c2s connection from a mobile client.
KevI said 'at the protocol level' deliberately, because session startup is an exception.
bhaveshsguptahas joined
Ge0rGI tend to agree. It would be great to have a mechanism that triggers a soft-timeout handler without actually removing the success handler
Ge0rGso that you can show "this is taking unusually long. please be patient"
Ge0rG(this is also not how most APIs work)
KevIn Swift we just go a layer above.
KevSo the layer that asked for the MUC join displays the message if the library hasn't announced a completion yet.
Ge0rGHm, yeah.
lovetoxhow can a join timeout wihout response?
lovetoxshould your own server not tell you that the muc server is not reachable
Ge0rGlovetox: it can't. But there are libraries that expect the join to be finished in a given pre-defined time
Ge0rGTheoretically, it can't.
lovetoxok but 30 s seems a long time
KevI was thinking 30 seconds was no time at all :D
lovetoxi would say servers should respond faster with a timeout error
Ge0rGIn practice, there is no s2s 0198, so your presence might well get lost while the remote server is tearing down
Ge0rGlovetox: a) mobile connections tend to be veeeeery slow.
Ge0rGI experience minute long delays on my usual train to work.
KevMobile connections are fast compared to some things.
lovetoxyeah ok, Gajim never timesout, it just says endless "joining..."
Ge0rGb) setting up s2s is friggin' complicated, with dialback and unhappy eyeballs etc.
Zashhas joined
Ge0rGsometimes you only have a unidirectional s2s, so your join completes fast, but you never get the responses back.
Ge0rGdistributed systems are hard. let's go shopping!
Danielfwiw (somewhat related to this discussion) i always iq before join
Danieli need that to decide what to put into the history tag anyway
Danieland then i know if i get a server not found or something
Ge0rGDaniel: what do you do if the IQ isn't responded to?
Danieldisplay joining… i guess
Danielbut it seems less likely than a lost presence
Ge0rGforever?
KevThat'd massively delay joining the MUC if there's a slow link though, wouldn't it?
Danielpresumably
Ge0rGKev: there is no other way to know whether that JID is actually a MUC
ZashUnidirectional s2s is problematic, that would eat your iq-reply too.
Ge0rGcan't we just have s2s-0198?
pep.But with an IQ my server should send me a timeout back no? If it gets no answer. Or will it just wait that the kernel kills the tcp socket if the connection is borked?
ZashProsody won't
Ge0rGpep.: your server doesn't track IQs to remote servers
Ge0rGpep.: so if there is a unidirectional s2s connection, you'll wait foreve
Ge0rGpep.: so if there is a unidirectional s2s connection, you'll wait forever
pep.Great
pep.Well slix will timeout at least.
ZashAnd 198 doesn't actually help with that
Ge0rGZash: why not?
Zash198 is also unidirectional
ZashIt has nothing to do with replies
Ge0rGI mean, it will not detect/fix unidirectional s2s, but it will restore all messages after a successful reconnection
ajhas left
ZashWill it?
Ge0rGYou only need to kick it hard enough?
ZashReconnection support isn't mandatory afaik
Ge0rGA _sane_ implementation of 0198 will help
ZashDoes that exist?
Zashhas left
Zashhas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
Lancehas joined
Lancehas left
Lancehas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
moparisthebesthas left
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
bhaveshsguptahas left
bhaveshsguptahas joined
moparisthebesthas joined
rionhas left
rionhas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
reda-alaouihas joined
pep.xmpp:chat@xmpp.rs?join < xmpp-rs is moving there
reda-alaouihas left
wurstsalathas left
ZashAnyone aware of any XMPP software that requires an XML declaration at the start of each stream?