Ge0rG...the moment you realize that you need to also add an <x/> element to MUC-PM delivery receipts.
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jonas’they *are* MUC-PMs
jonas’I considered that obvious :)
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pep.https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/slixmpp/blob/master/slixmpp/plugins/xep_0059/rsm.py#L28 why would amount default to 10? `max` in the XEP is not defaulting to anything is it?
pep.I guess this specific implementation expects a value, because later on it does `self.query[self.interface]['rsm']['max'] = str(self.amount)`, and everybody knows that `str(None)` is of course `"None"`
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marc0sjust to confirm i'm not missing anything from reading '48, '60 and '163... there's no standardised way of storing/retrieving bookmarks individually instead of as a list of them, right? even when using pubsub you're expected to treat the list of bookmarks as a single item ("current"), or am i wrong?
marc0sthanks Zash, I didn't thought it was really serious given that title, actually; will give it a read
ZashBut then you get the problem that you can only have one bookmark with older PEP implementations.
ZashProbably want all these to just be backed by the same store serverside
Ge0rGIf only we didn't have to cope with legacy systems.
marc0si can consider myself lucky; it's for a custom implementation in a non-federated service so...
KevI think very often we don't, and our determination to make life hard for ourselves by doing so is a hindrance.
Ge0rGKev: it is a hindrance, but my gut feeling is that by breaking backward compatibility, we will drive ourselfs irrelevant even faster
KevBackwards compatibility is one thing.
KevWe often try to ensure *forward* compatibility, and that's a world of pain.
Ge0rGWe often also overengineer our XEPs
KevI'm not sure to what extent that's true. We often try to make big generic solutions, and then years later find people are using them in interesting and unexpected ways. 60'd be a good example of a big complex thing that's seeing lots of use because of it's genericness (not in IM so much, but in other interesting systems).
KevIn other times when we've tried to go for simple, pragmatic solutions to get things working, we've found dealing with the edge cases has been unpleasant (45, 308, etc.).
KevI guess protocol design is hard, maybe?
Ge0rG0045 is not really simple, it comes with a huge number of unspecified corner cases.
MattJThat's kinda what Kev said, right?
Ge0rGI'd consider 0308 as almost elegant, except for three minor points: the number of old messages that may be corrected, the limitation to the full JID (that's gone now?), and the method to reference messages, which is a mess of its own and not the fault of 0308
Ge0rGI'm saying that 0045 is the opposite of simple, pragmatic.
Ge0rG&
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bent3nHi I created openfire(v4.2.3) server on my virtual machine( ubuntu). When I tried using spark client 2.8.3 to login, I go this error '“certificate can’t be authenticated”. I got a similar error when I used pidgin. However, pidgin automatically corrected and I’m able to connect using pidgin. The thing is, I'm trying to connect using node-xmpp-client and I get this error: XMPP authentication error. What am I doing wrong ?
bent3njid: bent3n @localhost
bent3nFQDN: localhost
bent3ndatabase: postgreSQL
bent3nWhat am I doing wrong ?
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jonas’tom, so, what I did for that weather stuff is that clients request weather forecasts as they need it.
jonas’the XMPP <-> Weather API proxy caches and reacts to rate-limiting HTTP status codes appropriately.
jonas’I didn’t do polling and then publishing into pubsub, because the clients are often idle for several hours, not needing any updates, so that would simply save resources on all ends of the equation
jonas’Also, back when I started that project, I wasn’t comfortable with PubSub yet :)
tomis that the only reason you didn't use pubsub? If you had to do it all over again would you?
ZashWhere did that come from? /me scans archives
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tomI ask because meteorology is one of my interests
jonas’Zash, operators@
jonas’tom, I’m not sure, I think for the forecasts it doesn’t make sense to use PubSub still, at least not a normal PubSub service
tomand I've done projects like that before, although my problems were more about getting the sensor data from the sensors to a server in zero-infrastructure areas
jonas’if anything, the XMPP<->HTTP translator would have to be a PubSub service on its own
jonas’so that clients can subscribe for updates based on their location
tomI've been working on a dynamic self-healing mesh network
jonas’publishing all weather forecasts for all possible locations doesn’t really make sense✎
jonas’publishing all weather forecasts for all possible locations to pubsub doesn’t really make sense ✏
tombut the thing is, I still need something to buffer the scientific data until the server can be reached to ingest it
tomI'm thinking because of the reliable nature of XMPP, I could just use an XMPP library and send stanzas with it and have the library buffer those in case it can't reach the server
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tomand when it does flush the buffer
jonas’> reliable nature of XMPP
jonas’I think that is a dangerous statement unless you really know what you’re doing
tomwell what should I know?
jonas’you need to know about stream management, and you should be using IQs for data transfer
jonas’be able to deal with duplicate deliveries
jonas’that’s probably already a good start
jonas’and have a plan for when the server is longer unreachable than you can buffer
tomthat's what I'm talking about
jonas’also, what you’re describing sounds like a Delay/Disruption Tolerant Network, which is an active field of research in the context of which I actually wrote my Masters thesis
tomatmospheric conditions change and because the network is dynamic, node all nodes are reachable at all times
tomanother thing I was looking at was A.L.F.R.E.D.
tomalright fact exchange daemon, but that's not really suited for distributing large facts
tomand ounce a fact is distributed it overwrites previous facts
jonas’tom, maybe have a look at the Bundle Protocol (RFC 5050) and implementations thereof
tomeven if I were to cryptographically sign my facts there's still a DOS vector
jonas’(being a mostly academic thing for now to my knowledge, the tooling is rather rough at the edges)
tomthanks, i'll look into that
tomWhat I was thinking so far was to use a fault tolerant layer2 such as the batman advanced routing protocol along with IPv6 multicast groups for distribution and use unicast for re-trans in case a fact was missed due to temporary islanding.
tombut using XMPP pubsub as a convenient way to access the data casually
tombut going back to this, there are some interesting XEPs that can make XMPP a little more distributed network-wise
tomlike the server-less zeroconf XMPP configuration where as client can speak directly to each other
tomzeroconf is an ugly protocol but it does work
tomjonas’, Can I read your thesis?
tomyou got a website?
jonas’I do, but the thesis isn’t on there
jonas’which I probably should fix at some point
jonas’I’m not sure whether it’ll be useful to you -- it is rather narrowly-focused on implementing a DTN gateway for a sepecific use-case.
jonas’(it’s "just" a Masters after all, not a PhD)
jonas’it’s not on my universities website, so I guess I have to check with them before sharing it
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tomyou don't own the rights to your thesis?
jonas’I do
jonas’but that doesn’t mean I didn’t grant an exclusive right