jdev - 2019-09-05

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  40. Ge0rG ...the moment you realize that you need to also add an <x/> element to MUC-PM delivery receipts.
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  42. jonas’ they *are* MUC-PMs
  43. jonas’ I considered that obvious :)
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  117. pep. https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/slixmpp/blob/master/slixmpp/plugins/xep_0059/rsm.py#L28 why would amount default to 10? `max` in the XEP is not defaulting to anything is it?
  118. pep. I guess this specific implementation expects a value, because later on it does `self.query[self.interface]['rsm']['max'] = str(self.amount)`, and everybody knows that `str(None)` is of course `"None"`
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  123. marc0s just to confirm i'm not missing anything from reading '48, '60 and '163... there's no standardised way of storing/retrieving bookmarks individually instead of as a list of them, right? even when using pubsub you're expected to treat the list of bookmarks as a single item ("current"), or am i wrong?
  124. Zash Correct
  125. Zash But now, introducing Bookmarks 2: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0402.html
  126. marc0s thanks Zash, I didn't thought it was really serious given that title, actually; will give it a read
  127. Zash But then you get the problem that you can only have one bookmark with older PEP implementations.
  128. Zash Probably want all these to just be backed by the same store serverside
  129. Ge0rG If only we didn't have to cope with legacy systems.
  130. marc0s i can consider myself lucky; it's for a custom implementation in a non-federated service so...
  131. Kev I think very often we don't, and our determination to make life hard for ourselves by doing so is a hindrance.
  132. Ge0rG Kev: it is a hindrance, but my gut feeling is that by breaking backward compatibility, we will drive ourselfs irrelevant even faster
  133. Kev Backwards compatibility is one thing.
  134. Kev We often try to ensure *forward* compatibility, and that's a world of pain.
  135. Ge0rG We often also overengineer our XEPs
  136. Kev I'm not sure to what extent that's true. We often try to make big generic solutions, and then years later find people are using them in interesting and unexpected ways. 60'd be a good example of a big complex thing that's seeing lots of use because of it's genericness (not in IM so much, but in other interesting systems).
  137. Kev In other times when we've tried to go for simple, pragmatic solutions to get things working, we've found dealing with the edge cases has been unpleasant (45, 308, etc.).
  138. Kev I guess protocol design is hard, maybe?
  139. Ge0rG 0045 is not really simple, it comes with a huge number of unspecified corner cases.
  140. MattJ That's kinda what Kev said, right?
  141. Ge0rG I'd consider 0308 as almost elegant, except for three minor points: the number of old messages that may be corrected, the limitation to the full JID (that's gone now?), and the method to reference messages, which is a mess of its own and not the fault of 0308
  142. Ge0rG I'm saying that 0045 is the opposite of simple, pragmatic.
  143. Ge0rG &
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  146. bent3n Hi I created openfire(v4.2.3) server on my virtual machine( ubuntu). When I tried using spark client 2.8.3 to login, I go this error '“certificate can’t be authenticated”. I got a similar error when I used pidgin. However, pidgin automatically corrected and I’m able to connect using pidgin. The thing is, I'm trying to connect using node-xmpp-client and I get this error: XMPP authentication error. What am I doing wrong ?
  147. bent3n jid: bent3n @localhost
  148. bent3n FQDN: localhost
  149. bent3n database: postgreSQL
  150. bent3n What am I doing wrong ?
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  174. jonas’ tom, so, what I did for that weather stuff is that clients request weather forecasts as they need it.
  175. jonas’ the XMPP <-> Weather API proxy caches and reacts to rate-limiting HTTP status codes appropriately.
  176. jonas’ I didn’t do polling and then publishing into pubsub, because the clients are often idle for several hours, not needing any updates, so that would simply save resources on all ends of the equation
  177. jonas’ Also, back when I started that project, I wasn’t comfortable with PubSub yet :)
  178. tom is that the only reason you didn't use pubsub? If you had to do it all over again would you?
  179. Zash Where did that come from? /me scans archives
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  181. tom I ask because meteorology is one of my interests
  182. jonas’ Zash, operators@
  183. jonas’ tom, I’m not sure, I think for the forecasts it doesn’t make sense to use PubSub still, at least not a normal PubSub service
  184. tom and I've done projects like that before, although my problems were more about getting the sensor data from the sensors to a server in zero-infrastructure areas
  185. jonas’ if anything, the XMPP<->HTTP translator would have to be a PubSub service on its own
  186. jonas’ so that clients can subscribe for updates based on their location
  187. tom I've been working on a dynamic self-healing mesh network
  188. jonas’ publishing all weather forecasts for all possible locations doesn’t really make sense
  189. jonas’ publishing all weather forecasts for all possible locations to pubsub doesn’t really make sense
  190. tom but the thing is, I still need something to buffer the scientific data until the server can be reached to ingest it
  191. tom I'm thinking because of the reliable nature of XMPP, I could just use an XMPP library and send stanzas with it and have the library buffer those in case it can't reach the server
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  193. tom and when it does flush the buffer
  194. jonas’ > reliable nature of XMPP
  195. jonas’ I think that is a dangerous statement unless you really know what you’re doing
  196. tom well what should I know?
  197. jonas’ you need to know about stream management, and you should be using IQs for data transfer
  198. jonas’ be able to deal with duplicate deliveries
  199. jonas’ that’s probably already a good start
  200. jonas’ and have a plan for when the server is longer unreachable than you can buffer
  201. tom that's what I'm talking about
  202. jonas’ also, what you’re describing sounds like a Delay/Disruption Tolerant Network, which is an active field of research in the context of which I actually wrote my Masters thesis
  203. tom atmospheric conditions change and because the network is dynamic, node all nodes are reachable at all times
  204. tom another thing I was looking at was A.L.F.R.E.D.
  205. tom alright fact exchange daemon, but that's not really suited for distributing large facts
  206. tom and ounce a fact is distributed it overwrites previous facts
  207. jonas’ tom, maybe have a look at the Bundle Protocol (RFC 5050) and implementations thereof
  208. tom even if I were to cryptographically sign my facts there's still a DOS vector
  209. jonas’ (being a mostly academic thing for now to my knowledge, the tooling is rather rough at the edges)
  210. tom thanks, i'll look into that
  211. tom What I was thinking so far was to use a fault tolerant layer2 such as the batman advanced routing protocol along with IPv6 multicast groups for distribution and use unicast for re-trans in case a fact was missed due to temporary islanding.
  212. tom but using XMPP pubsub as a convenient way to access the data casually
  213. tom but going back to this, there are some interesting XEPs that can make XMPP a little more distributed network-wise
  214. tom like the server-less zeroconf XMPP configuration where as client can speak directly to each other
  215. tom zeroconf is an ugly protocol but it does work
  216. tom jonas’, Can I read your thesis?
  217. tom you got a website?
  218. jonas’ I do, but the thesis isn’t on there
  219. jonas’ which I probably should fix at some point
  220. jonas’ I’m not sure whether it’ll be useful to you -- it is rather narrowly-focused on implementing a DTN gateway for a sepecific use-case.
  221. jonas’ (it’s "just" a Masters after all, not a PhD)
  222. jonas’ it’s not on my universities website, so I guess I have to check with them before sharing it
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  224. tom you don't own the rights to your thesis?
  225. jonas’ I do
  226. jonas’ but that doesn’t mean I didn’t grant an exclusive right
  227. jonas’ although the code is under BSD-3-Clause
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