jdev - 2019-09-18

  1. lovetox_

    since my kid was born my average coding speed is, 10 lines / 3 days

  2. Ge0rG

    lovetox_: increase the output by teaching your kid to code :)

  3. lovetox_

    thats the plan, but he is a bit selfish right now, cares only about eating and sleeping

  4. jonas’

    lovetox_, congrats, I guess?

  5. MattJ

    lovetox_: congrats! Nearly three months for me and it's not much better :)

  6. lovetox_


  7. Holger

    10 years over here, still not much better.

  8. Holger

    I do get more sleep though than back then :-)

  9. Link Mauve

    It really sounds like hell, I don’t see myself ever wanting to get into that mess. :x

  10. pep.

    Yeah you're really not good at selling it

  11. MattJ

    I think it would be fair to say that if you're on the fence, don't :)

  12. marc0s

    > I do get more sleep though than back then :-) Agree, I'm amazed how early can I go now to bed. 6yo and 3yo here and difficult to get anything done... Unless skipping sleep, which as said is lot harder now :)

  13. lovetox_

    i get so tired in the evening, i look at the same line of code 5 minutes and have to think about what i wanted to do with it. So i go to bed because its not productive anyway

  14. jonas’

    what if both are on the fence, think they might be happy either way but still can’t decide?

  15. Ge0rG

    We are approaching a time of many crises. You should train your kids in prepping, survival and self-defense.

  16. pep.

    "How to train your dragon" might be appropriate material for this

  17. Ge0rG

    pep.: the animated movie?

  18. pep.

    Yeah. End of the world, dragons etc..

  19. Ge0rG

    I haven't seen it as an apocalypse movie, need to rewatch, apparently.

  20. Zash

    s/End/Edge/ ?

  21. pep.

    Not an apocalypse movie, but useful material to know how to ride dragons in case of..

  22. Ge0rG

    pep.: in case of... what?

  23. Ge0rG

    In the case that refugees from adverse weather events become mutated monsters?

  24. pep.

    For example

  25. Ge0rG

    There was a book by Max Brooks.

  26. pep.

    Seems like a reasonable skill to have in thus case no?

  27. pep.

    Seems like a reasonable skill to have in this case no?

  28. Ge0rG

    I'm sure this is something a 6 year old will appreciate now, but maybe not something a 36 year old will appreciate in 30 years

  29. pep.

    You're too grumpy

  30. pep.

    But we knew that already :p

  31. Ge0rG

    pep.: I'm trying to give useful advice.

  32. Ge0rG

    If you decide to have kids, despite the global-political and climate landscape, prepare them for what is to come.

  33. pep.

    Yeah.. I got that bit. /me still hopes for dragons to show up

  34. allie

    poor hurricane people 😔 I know first hand what that's like

  35. lovetox

    weird, do i read this correctly

  36. lovetox


  37. lovetox

    this table means a owner cant kick a admin out of a room

  38. lovetox

    as both are role moderators

  39. lovetox

    and moderators can only kick participants and visitors

  40. lovetox

    this whole role/affiliation separation is only complicated

  41. lovetox

    i dont really see the benefit

  42. lovetox

    or lets say i dont see the benefit of role moderator

  43. lovetox

    its basically a admin on a timer

  44. lovetox

    never saw any room use that ever

  45. Zash

    I think it has come in handy at some point, to quickly increase the number of mods

  46. lovetox

    how has this something to do with quick? i can also add someone quick to a admin list

  47. lovetox

    the use case is: i want to make you moderator but only until you disconnect

  48. lovetox

    when do i need that ever..

  49. lovetox

    im thinking about not supporting that use case anymore in Gajim

  50. lovetox

    makes everything only complicated, without any real benefit

  51. lovetox

    if you want someone that can give voice to people and kick participants, just make him admin

  52. allie

    can admin remove the person who gave them admin, though?

  53. MattJ

    lovetox: I wouldn't blame you for not supporting it. Also see the table here: https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/groupchat/#terminology

  54. lovetox

    yes allie

  55. allie

    but a moderator couldn't?

  56. lovetox

    a moderator can not set affiliations

  57. lovetox

    moderator is a role

  58. lovetox

    a moderator can kick someone or give him voice

  59. lovetox

    admin is permanent

  60. lovetox

    if a moderator kicks an admin out of a room, admin can just join again

  61. lovetox

    moderator cant ban someone or remove the affiliation (admin)

  62. lovetox

    moderator is basically only there to give people voice and kick someone

  63. allie

    I was just thinking maybe it was if you wanted someone to help moderate the discussion, but didn't want to give them admin powers beyond what was needed for moderation

  64. lovetox

    yes allie i think thats what people thought about when doing this

  65. lovetox

    but really no one is using that

  66. lovetox

    also roles are gone if you leave the room

  67. lovetox

    if i make you moderator and you rejoin the room

  68. lovetox

    i have to make you moderator again

  69. allie


  70. Zash

    Its modelled after IRC + chanserv

  71. lovetox

    its really a subtle difference, and i would argue most people dont care about the difference between admin and moderator

  72. lovetox

    MattJ, yeah i saw that, but this is only about displaying

  73. lovetox

    its much work to have all the logic what role and affiliation can do what in what situation

  74. lovetox

    if i want to make it good that is, i could offer the buttons to every role, and just let the MUC deal with throwing errors if its not allowed

  75. lovetox

    but i want to show only the buttons that are correct in a specific situation, if you click on a contact in a muc

  76. lovetox

    and you are admin, you should not see the option to make that contact owner

  77. pep.

    "i want to show only the buttons that are correct in a specific situation, [..] you should not see the option to make that contact owner", I'm not saying there's wrong or right answer, but sometimes for consistency you might want to display a button: disabled, saying what the requirements are for that button to appear enabled on hover for example.

  78. pep.

    It happens so often that I'm really confused why I can't find an option anymore and then I realize I was missing some precondition, now I've lost 30mn, poked 3 people about it, opened an issue

  79. pep.

    (and +30mn for going through the code to understand the logic)