jdev - 2019-10-07

Do servers these days inject stanza id even if MAM is disabled? Should they?

what would be the point?

The Unique and Stable IDs, you mean? Openfire does (for MUC).

(unless explicitly disabled)

The rationale was that XEP-0359 might be used for other (although unidentified) purposes than MAM, and adding it didn't seem to be much of a problem.

> what would be the point? Other deduplicational purposes. Something something

XEP-0359 is supposed to be a stand-alone feature, as I read the XEP. MAM depends on it, but that doesn't need to imply that there's no other use case for XEP-0359 than MAM.

I don't really know

It's a lot of assumptions on my part to.

one simple use case could be, if a muc has disabled mam, this does not mean it will not enable it at some point

and on that point if i join i would like to request from my last known stanza-id

which implies i have to track stanza-ids even if mam is disabled

lovetox_, or if MAM is enabled and you don’t have any stanza-ID, you request from oldest?

that’d make more sense anyways

if i dont have a stanza-id, how can i request from the oldest?

without <after/>

of course, but this yields duplicates

im not saying a client is not usable, i say it makes sense to track stanza-ids even if mam is not enabled, because it probably will be enabled at some point in the future

but if i think about it, if mam is enabled, the stanza-id i request will not be in the archive

so its useless anyway

Yeah I don't know. I just had the vague feeling that it might be useful. Mostly triggered by a bug / very paranoid code in Conversations that absolutely requires stanza ids to be there.

yeah in that case i could request the whole archive and never receive duplicates

But that's probably just Conversations being too paranoid

I do see how they can be useful for muc though.

i think i only record the stanza-id if mam is available

how Daniel?

To dedup even if catching up with the old history model

yes true

i wonder if it would be ok to just never use MUC history

lovetox_, how would it yield duplicates?

if a server does not install MAM, does he really care about history?

jonas’ i already corrected that statement

right

Daniel, I would only require <stanza-id/> with by=room@muc.example.org if room@muc.example.org announces the urn:xmpp:sid:0 feature, and potentially, by implication, flag/remove those if the feature is not announced, because it is likely spoofed (although I am not sure if this could be exploited, I can't hurt doing so)

anyone know if anybody is working on any modern web interfaces to MUCs that isn't ConverseJS?

I don’t think there is

hmmm... I might have to play around with writing something, if only to see if I can do it. I like conversejs, but it's a bit clunky for some things

There are other web clients, I know that much.

there was that one really nice one... with a k. I forget the name. but it looks abandoned now. and candy for MUC is just bad...

Am I the only one who thought Candy was okay?

Zash: maybe? lol

Zash: it works, it's just not ideal UI wise. I don't know about the backend. it might be something I can fix to my own satisfaction with themeing

It doesn't look like Slack, sure. But I had never seen anything like Slack back then.

Looked like any other ~IRC-ish chat to me.

there are a few sites I've used it on before and it just wasn't quite up to the task once you got a bunch of people involved.

allie, looked through the ones listed as "Browser" on https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html ?

or the raw data https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/data/clients.json

allie, Kaiwa?

Zash, Candy had many vulnerabilities, and nobody was maintaining it.

allie, Reventlov recently started a React interface for Converse.

Link Mauve, "back then" was a decade ago.

Around when it was actively developed

Zash: yeah kaiwa! it's unmaintained now tho :(

There was a fork? Or is Kaiwa the fork?

Ah, yeah, otalk.

Also unmaintained 🙁

it'd be nice if rocket chat would work with an xmpp backend, but that hasn't happened so far

Zash: whoa whoa wait what?!

Fun fact: Supporting the desktop client is the most trivial thing ever.

... because it's just a web browser that loads the web client, so you can stick some JSON in the right place and serve converse.js or something 🙂

Zash: but then it's converse and not rocket chat, right?

I do have some WIP that sorta works with their mobile client tho.

rocket chat has a pretty nice interface. we use it at work.