DanielDo servers these days inject stanza id even if MAM is disabled? Should they?
jonas’what would be the point?
guus.der.kinderenThe Unique and Stable IDs, you mean? Openfire does (for MUC).
guus.der.kinderen(unless explicitly disabled)
guus.der.kinderenThe rationale was that XEP-0359 might be used for other (although unidentified) purposes than MAM, and adding it didn't seem to be much of a problem.
Daniel> what would be the point?
Other deduplicational purposes. Something something
guus.der.kinderenXEP-0359 is supposed to be a stand-alone feature, as I read the XEP. MAM depends on it, but that doesn't need to imply that there's no other use case for XEP-0359 than MAM.
DanielI don't really know
guus.der.kinderenIt's a lot of assumptions on my part to.
lovetox_one simple use case could be, if a muc has disabled mam, this does not mean it will not enable it at some point
lovetox_and on that point if i join i would like to request from my last known stanza-id
lovetox_which implies i have to track stanza-ids even if mam is disabled
jonas’lovetox_, or if MAM is enabled and you don’t have any stanza-ID, you request from oldest?
jonas’that’d make more sense anyways
lovetox_if i dont have a stanza-id, how can i request from the oldest?
lovetox_of course, but this yields duplicates
lovetox_im not saying a client is not usable, i say it makes sense to track stanza-ids even if mam is not enabled, because it probably will be enabled at some point in the future
lovetox_but if i think about it, if mam is enabled, the stanza-id i request will not be in the archive
lovetox_so its useless anyway
DanielYeah I don't know. I just had the vague feeling that it might be useful. Mostly triggered by a bug / very paranoid code in Conversations that absolutely requires stanza ids to be there.
lovetox_yeah in that case i could request the whole archive and never receive duplicates
DanielBut that's probably just Conversations being too paranoid
DanielI do see how they can be useful for muc though.
lovetox_i think i only record the stanza-id if mam is available
DanielTo dedup even if catching up with the old history model
lovetox_i wonder if it would be ok to just never use MUC history
jonas’lovetox_, how would it yield duplicates?
lovetox_if a server does not install MAM, does he really care about history?
lovetox_jonas’ i already corrected that statement
flowDaniel, I would only require <stanza-id/> with email@example.com if firstname.lastname@example.org announces the urn:xmpp:sid:0 feature, and potentially, by implication, flag/remove those if the feature is not announced, because it is likely spoofed (although I am not sure if this could be exploited, I can't hurt doing so)
allieanyone know if anybody is working on any modern web interfaces to MUCs that isn't ConverseJS?
jonas’I don’t think there is
alliehmmm... I might have to play around with writing something, if only to see if I can do it. I like conversejs, but it's a bit clunky for some things
ZashThere are other web clients, I know that much.
alliethere was that one really nice one... with a k. I forget the name. but it looks abandoned now. and candy for MUC is just bad...
ZashAm I the only one who thought Candy was okay?
allieZash: maybe? lol
allieZash: it works, it's just not ideal UI wise. I don't know about the backend. it might be something I can fix to my own satisfaction with themeing
ZashIt doesn't look like Slack, sure. But I had never seen anything like Slack back then.
ZashLooked like any other ~IRC-ish chat to me.
alliethere are a few sites I've used it on before and it just wasn't quite up to the task once you got a bunch of people involved.
Zashallie, looked through the ones listed as "Browser" on https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html ?
Zashor the raw data https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/data/clients.json
Link MauveZash, Candy had many vulnerabilities, and nobody was maintaining it.
Link Mauveallie, Reventlov recently started a React interface for Converse.
ZashLink Mauve, "back then" was a decade ago.
ZashAround when it was actively developed
allieZash: yeah kaiwa! it's unmaintained now tho :(
ZashThere was a fork? Or is Kaiwa the fork?
ZashAh, yeah, otalk.
ZashAlso unmaintained 🙁
allieit'd be nice if rocket chat would work with an xmpp backend, but that hasn't happened so far
Zashhides mod_rocketchat behind his back and whistles innocently
allieZash: whoa whoa wait what?!
ZashFun fact: Supporting the desktop client is the most trivial thing ever.
Zash... because it's just a web browser that loads the web client, so you can stick some JSON in the right place and serve converse.js or something 🙂
allieZash: but then it's converse and not rocket chat, right?
ZashI do have some WIP that sorta works with their mobile client tho.
allierocket chat has a pretty nice interface. we use it at work.