jdev - 2019-10-07

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  85. Daniel Do servers these days inject stanza id even if MAM is disabled? Should they?
  86. jonas’ what would be the point?
  87. guus.der.kinderen The Unique and Stable IDs, you mean? Openfire does (for MUC).
  88. guus.der.kinderen (unless explicitly disabled)
  89. guus.der.kinderen The rationale was that XEP-0359 might be used for other (although unidentified) purposes than MAM, and adding it didn't seem to be much of a problem.
  90. Daniel > what would be the point? Other deduplicational purposes. Something something
  91. guus.der.kinderen XEP-0359 is supposed to be a stand-alone feature, as I read the XEP. MAM depends on it, but that doesn't need to imply that there's no other use case for XEP-0359 than MAM.
  92. Daniel I don't really know
  93. guus.der.kinderen It's a lot of assumptions on my part to.
  94. lovetox_ one simple use case could be, if a muc has disabled mam, this does not mean it will not enable it at some point
  95. lovetox_ and on that point if i join i would like to request from my last known stanza-id
  96. lovetox_ which implies i have to track stanza-ids even if mam is disabled
  97. jonas’ lovetox_, or if MAM is enabled and you don’t have any stanza-ID, you request from oldest?
  98. jonas’ that’d make more sense anyways
  99. lovetox_ if i dont have a stanza-id, how can i request from the oldest?
  100. jonas’ without <after/>
  101. lovetox_ of course, but this yields duplicates
  102. lovetox_ im not saying a client is not usable, i say it makes sense to track stanza-ids even if mam is not enabled, because it probably will be enabled at some point in the future
  103. lovetox_ but if i think about it, if mam is enabled, the stanza-id i request will not be in the archive
  104. lovetox_ so its useless anyway
  105. Daniel Yeah I don't know. I just had the vague feeling that it might be useful. Mostly triggered by a bug / very paranoid code in Conversations that absolutely requires stanza ids to be there.
  106. lovetox_ yeah in that case i could request the whole archive and never receive duplicates
  107. Daniel But that's probably just Conversations being too paranoid
  108. Daniel I do see how they can be useful for muc though.
  109. lovetox_ i think i only record the stanza-id if mam is available
  110. lovetox_ how Daniel?
  111. Daniel To dedup even if catching up with the old history model
  112. lovetox_ yes true
  113. lovetox_ i wonder if it would be ok to just never use MUC history
  114. jonas’ lovetox_, how would it yield duplicates?
  115. lovetox_ if a server does not install MAM, does he really care about history?
  116. lovetox_ jonas’ i already corrected that statement
  117. jonas’ right
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  133. flow Daniel, I would only require <stanza-id/> with by=room@muc.example.org if room@muc.example.org announces the urn:xmpp:sid:0 feature, and potentially, by implication, flag/remove those if the feature is not announced, because it is likely spoofed (although I am not sure if this could be exploited, I can't hurt doing so)
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  149. allie anyone know if anybody is working on any modern web interfaces to MUCs that isn't ConverseJS?
  150. jonas’ I don’t think there is
  151. allie hmmm... I might have to play around with writing something, if only to see if I can do it. I like conversejs, but it's a bit clunky for some things
  152. Zash There are other web clients, I know that much.
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  155. allie there was that one really nice one... with a k. I forget the name. but it looks abandoned now. and candy for MUC is just bad...
  156. Zash Am I the only one who thought Candy was okay?
  157. allie Zash: maybe? lol
  158. allie Zash: it works, it's just not ideal UI wise. I don't know about the backend. it might be something I can fix to my own satisfaction with themeing
  159. Zash It doesn't look like Slack, sure. But I had never seen anything like Slack back then.
  160. Zash Looked like any other ~IRC-ish chat to me.
  161. allie there are a few sites I've used it on before and it just wasn't quite up to the task once you got a bunch of people involved.
  162. Zash allie, looked through the ones listed as "Browser" on https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html ?
  163. Zash or the raw data https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/data/clients.json
  164. Zash allie, Kaiwa?
  165. Link Mauve Zash, Candy had many vulnerabilities, and nobody was maintaining it.
  166. Link Mauve allie, Reventlov recently started a React interface for Converse.
  167. Zash Link Mauve, "back then" was a decade ago.
  168. Zash Around when it was actively developed
  169. allie Zash: yeah kaiwa! it's unmaintained now tho :(
  170. Zash There was a fork? Or is Kaiwa the fork?
  171. Zash Ah, yeah, otalk.
  172. Zash Also unmaintained 🙁
  173. allie it'd be nice if rocket chat would work with an xmpp backend, but that hasn't happened so far
  174. Zash hides mod_rocketchat behind his back and whistles innocently
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  176. allie Zash: whoa whoa wait what?!
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  178. Zash Fun fact: Supporting the desktop client is the most trivial thing ever.
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  180. Zash ... because it's just a web browser that loads the web client, so you can stick some JSON in the right place and serve converse.js or something 🙂
  181. allie Zash: but then it's converse and not rocket chat, right?
  182. Zash I do have some WIP that sorta works with their mobile client tho.
  183. allie rocket chat has a pretty nice interface. we use it at work.
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