jdev - 2020-01-25

00:14:58 Neustradamus has joined
00:16:18 pulkomandy has left
00:16:25 pulkomandy has joined
00:16:32 kikuchiyo has left
00:18:56 kikuchiyo has joined
00:20:05 goffi has left
00:29:28 kikuchiyo has left
00:34:47 paul has left
00:35:52 kikuchiyo has joined
00:42:15 kikuchiyo has left
00:42:29 sonny has joined
00:44:06 asterix has left
00:44:08 asterix has joined
00:48:05 sonny has left
00:50:52 kikuchiyo has joined
00:52:29 debacle has left
01:10:13 asterix has left
01:15:02 kikuchiyo has left
01:21:03 sonny has joined
01:43:55 Neustradamus has left
01:51:21 sonny has left
01:54:29 Neustradamus has joined
02:01:45 kikuchiyo has joined
02:04:33 sonny has joined
02:14:06 kikuchiyo has left
02:38:53 kikuchiyo has joined
02:39:59 sonny has left
02:41:25 sonny has joined
02:44:53 kikuchiyo has left
02:58:56 kikuchiyo has joined
03:04:57 kikuchiyo has left
03:20:35 strar has left
03:21:08 strar has joined
03:22:06 strar has left
03:22:50 strar has joined
03:31:32 sonny has left
03:35:21 sonny has joined
03:40:42 sonny has left
03:43:23 kikuchiyo has joined
03:48:47 kikuchiyo has left
03:48:58 kikuchiyo has joined
03:51:44 sonny has joined
03:55:00 kikuchiyo has left
04:19:05 kikuchiyo has joined
04:21:31 paul has joined
04:25:11 kikuchiyo has left
04:49:07 kikuchiyo has joined
04:55:37 kikuchiyo has left
05:00:52 sonny has left
05:11:25 sonny has joined
05:22:20 lovetox has joined
05:30:42 sonny has left
05:31:27 sonny has joined
05:56:09 lovetox has left
06:02:52 lovetox has joined
06:11:25 paul has left
06:13:48 sonny has left
06:20:38 sonny has joined
06:49:43 kikuchiyo has joined
06:55:45 kikuchiyo has left
07:00:08 sonny has left
07:01:08 sonny has joined
07:09:43 Guus I've never touched the functionality. It was put in by Jive, at the time. I think we used it with Nimbuzz, at the time. Must've been 2006 or something. I never get questions around it though.
07:12:39 lovetox has left
07:14:36 lovetox has joined
07:27:01 paul has joined
07:27:20 kikuchiyo has joined
07:28:02 lovetox has left
07:31:02 sonny has left
07:37:23 kikuchiyo has left
07:40:19 lovetox has joined
07:45:14 lovetox has left
07:53:06 sonny has joined
08:01:25 lovetox has joined
08:02:27 Jannie has joined
08:02:37 Jannie https://bit.ly/DateMeDaddy
08:03:43 Jannie has left
08:18:09 lovetox has left
08:19:39 kikuchiyo has joined
08:25:41 kikuchiyo has left
08:26:51 asterix has joined
08:34:54 pulkomandy has left
08:39:35 kikuchiyo has joined
08:40:21 pulkomandy has joined
08:41:29 asterix has left
08:41:30 asterix has joined
08:46:40 kikuchiyo has left
08:56:49 sonny has left
09:01:20 pulkomandy has left
09:01:22 flow IIRC ejabberd also supports extended stanza addressing and MAXS makes use of it
09:02:35 pulkomandy has joined
09:07:00 sonny has joined
09:08:53 defanor-tmp has joined
09:14:05 defanor-tmp Hello. Slightly off-topic, but I'm failing to join this room using my regular client (currently using the web interface on xmpp.org), apparently my server fails to connect to muc.xmpp.org (208.68.163.210:5269); is it just me, or a common issue? And I've only tried that after failing to subscribe to the jdev mailing list (HTTP 403 there), is it also a common issue?
09:14:17 sonny has left
09:21:36 pulkomandy has left
09:21:51 MattJ defanor-tmp: hi
09:22:23 MattJ Not a common issue, pretty much everyone here is joined from their own server
09:23:06 defanor-tmp Is 208.68.163.210:5269 the correct address? I failed to connect there directly from my computer (different network/ISP/country) too.
09:23:06 MattJ I can check jdev subscription is working later
09:24:10 MattJ Not sure of the IP (I'm currently on my phone so can't easily check DNS)
09:24:14 defanor-tmp And netcat from the server also says that connection times out.
09:24:54 MattJ Oh, 5269? Pretty sure that's the wrong port at least
09:26:05 defanor-tmp Thanks, I'll try to investigate why that happens then. It's Prosody that picks it.
09:27:03 defanor-tmp "dig srv _xmpp-server._tcp.muc.xmpp.org" says "_xmpp-server._tcp.muc.xmpp.org. 900 IN SRV 1 1 9269 xmpp.xmpp.org."
09:27:53 MattJ Prosody would always look up the SRV first, and would only use 5269 by default if that fails to resolve
09:28:10 MattJ Debug logs from Prosody would help
09:28:16 defanor-tmp Hrm, though not from the server. Apparently an issue with DNS there, Prosody is what I'm using.
09:31:54 defanor has joined
09:33:00 asterix has left
09:33:02 asterix has joined
09:33:04 defanor It was a DNS issue indeed, the server tried to use ISP's DNS instead of a local one. Which for some reason didn't serve SRV records, and somehow Prosody didn't pick it up from alternative DNS servers (which do serve those).
09:34:16 defanor-tmp has left
09:37:23 lovetox has joined
09:40:15 defanor And the on-topic question I had is about reusable XMPP client implementations. I keep looking for relatively complete (in the "advanced client" compliance suite sense) libraries providing C API, implementing XMPP correctly, and embeddable into a program's main loop (instead of using their own or, say, glib's), but not finding much. I also keep wondering whether it's viable to implement it in a way that would allow to define the core and
09:40:15 defanor each XEP separately (in the hope to achieve a relatively clean/maintainable implementation): apparently it can be (and sometimes is) mostly achieved using some kinds of hooks on stanza (and other depth-1 element) sending and retrieval, but it still wouldn't suffice for the "direct TLS" XEP (and possibly some others). Are there known attempts to do that, and/or is it known to be futile?
09:42:18 lovetox i would not do that
09:42:32 lovetox there are XEPs that make sense as its own module pluginable etc
09:42:39 lovetox but others absolutely not
09:42:45 lovetox like 0368
09:42:59 lovetox nobody will want to disable that
09:44:57 defanor Indeed, that's the "direct TLS" one I've mentioned. It made me to think of hooks on all the I/O actions instead of just XML element sending/retrieval, but then it'd probably be a mess of its own.
09:45:29 paul has left
09:49:16 lovetox i just rewritten a library
09:49:40 lovetox and most clients would want the library to pass the domain, and the library should connect and do everything on its own
09:49:52 lovetox there are still many things to consider
09:51:20 MattJ I also agree with that (having worked on a number of libraries)
09:51:49 MattJ The way XEPs are split does not necessarily match the ideal split in a library
09:51:53 jonas’ as a library author: don’t make the low level stuff plugins
09:52:25 jonas’ it’s a terrible choice which only leads to heartache. instead, make your core modular so that people who want to experiment with low-level stuff (like '386 or compression or something) can easily do so in their own fork
09:52:30 jonas’ 99% of users won’t want to do this
09:52:41 jonas’ they just need additional payloads for standard elements -> make *that* easy
09:54:57 lovetox - DNS resolution and connection priority (suprisingly complicated) - Happy eyeballs - Proxy Support - Other connection method support (e.g. Websocket) - DIRECT TLS, START TLS, Unencrypted - Support for Client certificates - Support for functioning with non- valid server certificates and thats just out of my head, and thats all *before* you send a single stanza
09:55:16 defanor I see, thanks. I'm not writing a library though, since it seems rather wrong to add yet another one, given that there's quite a few already. Yet finding it puzzling that there's nothing in sight that could be reusable from arbitrary languages via C FFI, complete, and hookable to an external main loop (say, glib's/GTK's, libev's, or whatever the program using that library would want to use). Am I missing something, and/or does such
09:55:16 defanor flexibility seem like a bad idea?
09:55:45 jonas’ defanor, I guess the C libraries could be made to be usable that way
09:55:57 jonas’ I forgot the name of the library used by profanity, but it’s in C
09:56:08 jonas’ howevre, working with XML and text in C is a PITA, so nobody wants to do that
09:56:18 jonas’ and people prefer to write an idiomatic library in whatever more high-level language
09:56:21 defanor libstrophe, but IIRC profanity struggles to introduce even XEP-0198 for years with it
09:56:33 jonas’ which makes sense to me -- a native library is more likely to be idiomatic and useful for the language ecosystem either way
09:56:50 pulkomandy has joined
09:56:55 jonas’ oh and yeah, libraries created before the widespread use of '198 are likely to be in pain (looking at you, libpurple)
09:57:09 jonas’ '198 is one of the things you absolutely don’t want in a plugin
09:57:18 MattJ Yeah, I used to use (and contribute to) libstrophe
09:57:19 defanor i've added 0198 into libpurple more than an year ago, but it's still not released
09:57:25 jonas’ it’s hard enough to get right even when having full access to the stack’s internals
09:58:01 MattJ jonas’: FWIW I've implemented it in a plugin on the client and server side, I don't think it's that bad
09:58:10 paul has joined
09:58:25 lovetox defanor, 0198 its not "hard" or "complicated"
09:58:33 jonas’ MattJ, mod_smacks isn’t that bad? ;)
09:58:33 lovetox but a library should have that in mind when written
09:58:46 lovetox otherwise it gets almost impossible if you have bad luck
09:58:46 sonny has joined
10:00:00 flow > lovetox> defanor, 0198 its not "hard" or "complicated" I am not sure i'd put it that way given that most implementations of xep198 ran into the same set of issues at first
10:00:03 defanor Yes, that's what also seems awkward about relying on core modifications to implement XEPs.
10:00:19 MattJ jonas’: mod_smacks has issues (but it works), I don't think they necessarily stem from it being a plugin
10:00:43 Holger The hard thing about 0198 is counting!
10:00:51 jonas’ counting the right things
10:01:22 MattJ I disagree, we haven't had a counting bug for a very long time
10:01:38 Holger "1 stanza", "2 stanzas", "3 stanzas", "oh wait let's do something else" ... "2-and-a-half stanzas" ... "damn how many stanzas have I seen again I'm lost!"
10:01:50 MattJ The XEP says what to count and (now) when counters get reset
10:02:28 flow yep, the xep198 clarifications that where added likely helped to improve the situation
10:02:48 MattJ How do you get distracted during stanzas_received++? :)
10:02:57 Holger Threads and stuff.
10:03:09 Holger No idea actually :-)
10:03:37 Holger I'm just not sure I've ever seen an implementation that got it right from start. And I think at least ChatSecure is still borked.
10:04:35 sonny has left
10:04:41 MattJ We did have bugs in the early days, but again I don't see that they were caused by it being a plugin
10:04:48 flow I am not sure if what holger described actually borks the implementations, but it sure was/is identifying the point where to reset the counter and start counting
10:05:12 flow MattJ, same
10:05:22 MattJ I think the main reason it shouldn't be a plugin is for the library maintainer's sanity
10:05:45 Holger flow: That was one multiple problems I've seem implementations running into, and it's good this one has been clarified in the XEP, yes.
10:05:49 Holger *one of
10:05:54 MattJ It's hard to ensure you have the right plugin API and all the plugins interact correctly
10:06:29 Holger But e.g. both ejabberd and Conversations were running into threading foo that was unrelated to "when to start counting", initially.
10:07:01 MattJ Threads are the root of all evil
10:07:04 jonas’ MattJ, one thing which went "wrong" in aioxmpp was that a stanza which caused an exception during processing would not be counted
10:07:14 jonas’ MattJ, one thing which went "wrong" in aioxmpp was that a stanza which caused an exception which terminated the stream (really bad) during processing would not be counted
10:07:19 jonas’ this would cause the stream to reconnect and resume
10:07:26 jonas’ causing a fun tight reconnect loop
10:07:26 Holger MattJ: Yeah.
10:07:32 jonas’ admittedly, many problems at play here, but still.
10:07:43 Holger jonas': Exactly, stuff like that.
10:07:57 asterix has left
10:08:10 jonas’ (reconnect loop because the stanza would be re-received during resumption)
10:08:31 MattJ jonas’: I'd argue that not counting a stanza you haven't processed is sensible from a data loss perspective
10:08:31 rion has left
10:08:32 rion has joined
10:08:45 jonas’ MattJ, define "have not processed" please
10:09:31 asterix has joined
10:09:41 MattJ In Prosody we are moving 198 to core, it's my ideal that we wouldn't back until the stanza is committed to storage or delivered, for example
10:09:58 MattJ Not sure we'll achieve that, it's Hard
10:10:03 jonas’ if I auto reply with <service-unavailable/>, is that "processed"?
10:10:09 MattJ Sure
10:10:21 jonas’ if I reply with (I don’t recall what we do) because of a deserialiser error, is that "processed"?
10:10:46 jonas’ because that’s exactly what (should’ve) happened in the above example (that the deserialiser error broke the XMLStream instead of properly being handled was a different issue)
10:10:53 MattJ If you reply of course it's processed
10:11:00 jonas’ (scrolling through `git log aioxmpp/stream.py`)
10:11:54 jonas’ MattJ, I mean, what you say makes sense, but it’s hard to get that into code right from the beginning
10:12:10 jonas’ there are dragons and nasal demons very close due to fun race conditions (even without threads)
10:12:27 jonas’ maybe race condition isn’t the right term, but edge case is.
10:13:43 paul has left
10:14:26 jonas’ https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/commit/f9af3cb485e9b6d7bc0d76d10e919aa76e822872 that’s the one
10:14:45 jonas’ oh, no, that’s a different one
10:14:53 jonas’ that was when parsing errors didn’t even propagate to the SM implementation
10:15:26 jonas’ finding the right place to count "stanzas" wasn’t easy, and it took more than one iteration
10:15:56 pulkomandy has left
10:18:46 lovetox has left
10:19:15 pulkomandy has joined
10:23:12 lovetox has joined
10:24:12 lovetox what impl get wrong mostly is not how to count
10:24:15 lovetox is when to start
10:24:26 lovetox and its not when you receive the first stanza
10:24:36 asterix has left
10:24:39 asterix has joined
10:25:00 lovetox its also not after the server sent you <enabled>
10:25:15 lovetox which probably is the most common pitfall
10:27:16 jonas’ what?
10:28:32 jonas’ I’m pretty sure it is
10:28:57 jonas’ I’m pretty sure you start to count inbound after you received <enabled/>, and outbound after you sent <enable/>
10:29:06 jonas’ which is the only way to make this reliable
10:30:26 Alex has left
10:30:33 Alex has joined
10:31:49 pulkomandy has left
10:31:56 larma has left
10:33:35 pulkomandy has joined
10:38:19 asterix has left
10:38:22 asterix has joined
10:38:38 larma has joined
10:44:08 paul has joined
10:45:15 lovetox has left
10:49:45 kikuchiyo has joined
10:55:18 larma has left
10:55:19 larma has joined
10:55:54 kikuchiyo has left
11:01:52 flow jonas’, probably lovetax was talking about counting outbound stanzas
11:02:04 flow jonas’, probably lovetox was talking about counting outbound stanzas
11:02:18 jonas’ flow, I got confused by "its not when you receive the first stanza", sounds like inbound to me
11:05:15 asterix has left
11:05:19 asterix has joined
11:05:29 sonny has joined
11:31:17 pulkomandy has left
11:36:06 pulkomandy has joined
11:36:09 sonny has left
11:36:34 sonny has joined
11:43:23 asterix has left
11:43:31 asterix has joined
11:46:37 sonny has left
11:48:36 asterix has left
11:48:39 asterix has joined
11:57:54 pulkomandy has left
12:03:34 pulkomandy has joined
12:07:50 goffi has joined
12:46:44 asterix has left
12:46:45 asterix has joined
12:49:43 debacle has joined
12:52:41 neroam728 has joined
12:53:04 neroam728 has left
12:53:59 paul has left
12:55:36 paul has joined
12:56:58 strar has left
12:59:00 strar has joined
13:02:13 futuresky202 has joined
13:07:34 futuresky202 has left
13:13:18 sonny has joined
13:14:28 kikuchiyo has joined
13:18:40 asterix has left
13:18:44 asterix has joined
13:28:26 sonny has left
13:29:04 pulkomandy has left
13:30:07 pulkomandy has joined
13:32:42 asterix has left
13:32:45 asterix has joined
13:33:31 sonny has joined
13:45:41 asterix has left
13:45:44 asterix has joined
13:49:31 goffi has left
13:49:34 goffi has joined
13:51:05 goffi has left
13:51:06 goffi has joined
13:59:06 pulkomandy has left
14:02:31 asterix has left
14:04:08 asterix has joined
14:04:36 asterix has left
14:04:43 asterix has joined
14:06:03 pulkomandy has joined
14:10:55 debacle has left
14:14:49 Zash has left
14:15:23 Zash has joined
14:15:30 sonny has left
14:19:52 pulkomandy has left
14:22:03 pulkomandy has joined
14:25:02 sonny has joined
14:26:56 kikuchiyo has left
14:37:17 Neustradamus has left
14:37:50 Neustradamus has joined
14:39:07 Neustradamus has left
14:39:19 Neustradamus has joined
14:41:26 Hrithik has joined
14:42:58 Hrithik has left
14:43:34 hrithik has joined
14:43:54 hrithik Guys i need your help
14:44:16 hrithik .setXmppDomain("admin@192.168.1.9") .setPort(5280) .setHost("192.168.1.9") .setResource("Rooster")
14:45:36 hrithik when connecting with client it showing error as (client not connected to server message not sent ) how to resolve it?
14:46:45 jonas’ what library is that even?
14:47:00 hrithik smack library
14:47:15 jonas’ java?
14:47:20 hrithik yes
14:47:27 jonas’ flow, ^
14:47:43 jonas’ though one thing which stands out right away is that using bare IP addresses is asking for trouble.
14:48:06 Zash and a nodepart passed to something called set domain
14:48:18 Zash and the standard bosh port
14:48:22 jonas’ that’s probably not good either
14:48:24 Zash and also everything
14:49:03 hrithik DomainBareJid domainname = JidCreate.domainBareFrom("192.168.1.9"); XMPPTCPConnectionConfiguration conf = XMPPTCPConnectionConfiguration.builder() .setXmppDomain("admin@192.168.1.9") .setPort(5280) .setHost("192.168.1.9") .setResource("Rooster")
14:51:16 hrithik i have my server in another system
14:52:36 hrithik how to set connection with server and client(mobile)
14:52:48 pulkomandy has left
14:53:22 pulkomandy has joined
14:58:30 hrithik has left
15:02:04 Neustradamus has left
15:03:57 Neustradamus has joined
15:14:46 asterix has left
15:14:48 asterix has joined
15:16:02 sonny has left
15:17:47 asterix has left
15:17:48 asterix has joined
15:30:15 hrithik has joined
15:30:59 hrithik has left
15:33:26 Neustradamus has left
15:36:38 sonny has joined
15:44:57 Neustradamus has joined
15:48:25 bhaveshsgupta has joined
15:52:37 sonny has left
15:53:53 pulkomandy has left
16:01:35 bhaveshsgupta has left
16:10:30 bhaveshsgupta has joined
16:10:46 pulkomandy has joined
16:20:52 pulkomandy has left
16:21:24 bhaveshsgupta has left
16:21:48 pulkomandy has joined
16:27:05 sonny has joined
16:35:08 bhaveshsgupta has joined
16:37:21 sonny has left
16:43:25 pulkomandy has left
16:44:24 pulkomandy has joined
16:45:06 bhaveshsgupta has left
16:48:24 bhaveshsgupta has joined
16:51:22 Neustradamus has left
16:54:30 pulkomandy has left
17:07:52 pulkomandy has joined
17:08:26 sonny has joined
17:17:45 bhaveshsgupta has left
17:19:37 Neustradamus has joined
17:22:53 bhaveshsgupta has joined
17:27:24 lovetox has joined
17:31:40 larma has left
17:38:21 larma has joined
17:42:07 kikuchiyo has joined
17:50:53 lovetox has left
18:06:40 lovetox has joined
18:08:50 lovetox yeah jonas’ but thats counter to most of other XMPP flows
18:09:04 lovetox normally you send a IQ get, receive a set, then something happens
18:09:24 lovetox or you negotiate something with, <xxx> and get back <succeeded>
18:09:25 lovetox etc
18:09:38 lovetox and thats probably the first intention when implementing smacks
18:09:58 lovetox we enable, wait for response <enabled> then we start doing our thing
18:12:00 sonny has left
18:15:39 asterix has left
18:15:56 asterix has joined
18:43:07 bhaveshsgupta has left
18:43:39 bhaveshsgupta has joined
18:44:10 asterix has left
18:44:12 asterix has joined
18:48:58 sonny has joined
18:56:04 asterix has left
18:56:09 asterix has joined
19:09:00 asterix has left
19:10:24 debacle has joined
19:13:17 asterix has joined
19:13:17 Neustradamus has left
19:13:22 pulkomandy has left
19:14:21 pulkomandy has joined
19:17:28 Neustradamus has joined
19:20:23 Neustradamus has left
19:20:59 Neustradamus has joined
19:22:19 asterix has left
19:22:23 asterix has joined
19:23:27 pulkomandy has left
19:24:24 sonny has left
19:26:47 pulkomandy has joined
19:29:40 bhaveshsgupta has left
19:31:40 bhaveshsgupta has joined
19:37:25 asterix has left
19:37:33 asterix has joined
19:40:55 strar has left
19:42:55 strar has joined
20:01:35 bhaveshsgupta has left
20:01:39 bhaveshsgupta has joined
20:07:48 Zash has left
20:08:04 Zash has joined
20:09:42 sonny has joined
20:15:34 bhaveshsgupta has left
20:19:39 bhaveshsgupta has joined
20:21:20 sonny has left
20:31:20 bhaveshsgupta has left
20:32:14 bhaveshsgupta has joined
20:35:40 paul has left
20:38:44 pulkomandy has left
20:39:49 pulkomandy has joined
20:49:55 bhaveshsgupta has left
20:56:14 bhaveshsgupta has joined
20:58:15 goffi has left
21:00:48 pulkomandy has left
21:05:42 bhaveshsgupta has left
21:08:18 bhaveshsgupta has joined
21:13:51 pulkomandy has joined
21:27:04 xmppnoob has joined
21:33:17 xmppnoob hi everyone. not sure if this is the right place for the questions i have, but maybe you can give me some pointers. i'm trying to build an xmpp client for my organization (web and mobile), on mobile i'm using smack for android which is great (haven't started ios yet...). on web, my search has led me to strophe library, which sadly i coudn't even compile (dirs and files unexistent) and xmpp.js, (node-xmpp rewrite) which i'm currently testing, the basic demo covers connection, send and receive messages, pretty useful, but i'm struggling on finding documentation on some other topics (roster management, file transfer, etc.), do you know and recommend some other library?
21:33:43 pulkomandy has left
21:34:46 pulkomandy has joined
21:38:17 actupper has left
21:41:00 MattJ Hi xmppnoob
21:41:17 MattJ Take a look at converse.js <https://conversejs.org>
21:42:09 MattJ strophe.js is generally a low-level library, so there is a lot of DIY involved, though it does have a bunch of plugins that handle some tasks for you
21:42:41 MattJ converse.js is a more featured client on top of it, which handles lots more stuff, and is easily customizable/embeddable
21:43:21 bhaveshsgupta has left
21:43:37 MattJ Also if you're working on clients, take a look at https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/protocol/ which has a bunch of relevant notes
21:58:26 sonny has joined
22:05:33 bhaveshsgupta has joined
22:08:41 xmppnoob thanks MattJ, i'm a little confused about conversejs, it is a client or a library?
22:09:19 MattJ It's primarily a client, but it has an API that you can use to control/customize it with your own code
22:09:38 pulkomandy has left
22:09:43 pulkomandy has joined
22:09:57 actupper has joined
22:10:34 xmppnoob great! i'll give it a try
22:19:19 sonny has left
22:21:58 lovetox has left
22:39:35 paul has joined
22:43:59 bhaveshsgupta has left
22:47:02 bhaveshsgupta has joined
22:57:36 asterix has left
23:18:15 bhaveshsgupta has left
23:27:08 bhaveshsgupta has joined
23:46:09 bhaveshsgupta has left
23:55:29 bhaveshsgupta has joined