jdev - 2020-03-08

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  3. moparisthebest

    The only thing that annoys me is when a client could connect but gives up early, imho there is never a reason to do so

  4. moparisthebest

    Name the user that would choose not to connect if connection is possible?

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  48. lovetox

    https://404.city/ looks pretty great

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  50. flow

    defanor, how could following "happy eyeballs" lead to scenarios where a connection is possible by a client failing to connect?

  51. Martin

    > https://404.city/ looks pretty great But he could use some spell checking.

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  57. defanor

    flow: with "connect" being a shortcut for "open a usable stream" (as was discussed above), the potential issue mentioned above applies: a client only ends up with a single address/connection to proceed with, while a connection to another address could have been more useful (e.g., TLS failing on one, but not on another). It's not specific to "happy eyeballs" though, I just recalled thinking that if one was to attempt all the available

  58. defanor

    addresses until one works for getting to resource binding, it would be particularly awkward to implement with those.

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  103. klaus

    Hi everyone. Can someone create a wiki account for me on wiki.xmpp.org? I'm currently at the the Düsseldorf sprint and it would be helpful if I could edit our sprint page. Hope this is the right place to ask. My mail is klaus@jsxc.org and my preferred nick is sualko. Thanks a lot.

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  106. pep.

    Ge0rG, Guus ^ ?

  107. pep.

    There was also another request a few days ago? but apparently they're gone

  108. pep.

    "raucao> hi. i'd like to get an account on the wiki. is this the right place?"

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  112. lovetox

    what do you think about a 5 seconds TCP timeout when connecting to a server

  113. lovetox

    or is this to low for slow connections?

  114. Zash

    too low for Link Mauve

  115. jonas’

    pretty sure that’s too low

  116. lovetox

    ok so 10 seems good?

  117. jonas’

    try 60

  118. lovetox


  119. Zash

    I've got a 20 second connection timeout and it seems fine most of the time

  120. jonas’

    what are you gonna do when the timeout trips anyways?

  121. lovetox

    what for? you think a user waits 60 seconds for gajim to connect?

  122. lovetox

    he kills the application 5 times in that time

  123. jonas’

    only if it blocks

  124. jonas’

    (which it most certainly should not)

  125. lovetox

    has nothing to do with blocking

  126. jonas’

    it has

  127. lovetox

    no its about the time a user waits

  128. flow

    i'd say it's about the UX

  129. jonas’

    we seem to come back to this. giving feedback about a long running operation is better than incentivising the user to throw away progress early

  130. lovetox

    yeah its UX

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  132. lovetox

    there is no feedback jonas

  133. flow

    maybe if it clearly make it visible that there is a 20s timeout going on

  134. jonas’

    lovetox, yeah, that’s the problem then.

  135. lovetox

    there is no progress for a tcp connection

  136. jonas’

    add feedback.

  137. flow

    like a circle that fills up

  138. jonas’

    "This seems to take longer than expected. We’re still trying, check your connection in the meantime"

  139. jonas’

    after N (which should be much smaller than timeout) seconds you show "This seems to take longer than expected. We’re still trying, check your connection in the meantime"

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  177. Guus

    > Hi everyone. Can someone create a wiki account for me on wiki.xmpp.org? I'm currently at the the Düsseldorf sprint and it would be helpful if I could edit our sprint page. Hope this is the right place to ask. My mail is klaus@jsxc.org and my preferred nick is sualko. Thanks a lot. I just created an account for you. You should have an activation email.

  178. klaus

    Thanks a lot

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  188. Guus


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  226. flow

    Sam Whited, why do you consider switching from 2-clause bsd to apache license?

  227. pep.


  228. Sam Whited

    flow: Apache has an explicit patent grant which makes corporate lawyer types happy and it has a provision for a notice file which makes me happy. I will miss how short the bsd style one is, but as far as I can tell (not being a lawyer) Apache is just the best written license out there.

  229. Sam Whited

    Still haven't decided though.

  230. flow

    Sam Whited, thanks for letting me know :)

  231. Sam Whited

    If anyone has expertise in this area, I'd love to hear other opinions.

  232. moparisthebest

    AGPL or bust :)

  233. pep.

    "best license" is quite subjective, but I know we disagree on this :)

  234. moparisthebest

    Honestly though all this "X or lawyers/businesses/etc won't like it" is crap, there are huge examples to prove every one wrong

  235. moparisthebest

    Essentially every business uses GPL Linux and modified-BSD curl for instance

  236. Sam Whited

    I'm not looking to change the type of license.

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  239. Sam Whited

    And every business doesn't work on Linux.

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  241. moparisthebest

    I'd suspect that's not true

  242. moparisthebest

    The thought of anyone going "hmm I can't use this thing because of BSD but if it was Apache I could" seems unbelievable

  243. moparisthebest

    I think Microsoft's biggest money maker today is Linux, via azure

  244. pulkomandy

    But Linux is essentially "GPL but we promise to not enforce it"

  245. moparisthebest

    I'm pretty sure it's been enforced

  246. Sam Whited

    Almost all businesses operate this way. Just because one or two exceptions exist where they don't mind contributing back doesn't mean most of them don't

  247. moparisthebest

    Operate what way?

  248. Sam Whited

    Don't want to use GPL on core business components, or have to potentially spend time responding to requests for source

  249. Sam Whited

    Anyways, opinions about BSD v Apache would be welcome if anyone wants to email me. I'm not engaging when every damn time I mention a license decision GPL zealots have to pivot to their preferred license.Please stop fmdoing that.

  250. moparisthebest

    I explicitly responded directly about Apache vs BSD, you're welcome :)

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  253. Guus

    Sam Whited: try reaching out to Matt Tucker. Back in the day, he moved Openfire et. al. to Apache. I'm not sure if BSD was considered, but if he did, he might have some insights that are valuable to you.

  254. Sam Whited

    Guus: thanks, will do. moparisthebest: sorry for snapping, I've been getting a lot of “why won't you GPL?” lately so I've been a bit angry about it.

  255. moparisthebest

    No problem, it's my default generally but depends on a lot of things, no surprise I like LGPL for libraries often too

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