The only thing that annoys me is when a client could connect but gives up early, imho there is never a reason to do so
moparisthebest
Name the user that would choose not to connect if connection is possible?
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lovetox
https://404.city/ looks pretty great
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flow
defanor, how could following "happy eyeballs" lead to scenarios where a connection is possible by a client failing to connect?
Martin
> https://404.city/ looks pretty great
But he could use some spell checking.
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defanor
flow: with "connect" being a shortcut for "open a usable stream" (as was discussed above), the potential issue mentioned above applies: a client only ends up with a single address/connection to proceed with, while a connection to another address could have been more useful (e.g., TLS failing on one, but not on another). It's not specific to "happy eyeballs" though, I just recalled thinking that if one was to attempt all the available
defanor
addresses until one works for getting to resource binding, it would be particularly awkward to implement with those.
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klaus
Hi everyone. Can someone create a wiki account for me on wiki.xmpp.org? I'm currently at the the Düsseldorf sprint and it would be helpful if I could edit our sprint page. Hope this is the right place to ask. My mail is klaus@jsxc.org and my preferred nick is sualko. Thanks a lot.
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pep.
Ge0rG, Guus ^ ?
pep.
There was also another request a few days ago? but apparently they're gone
pep.
"raucao> hi. i'd like to get an account on the wiki. is this the right place?"
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lovetox
what do you think about a 5 seconds TCP timeout when connecting to a server
lovetox
or is this to low for slow connections?
Zash
too low for Link Mauve
jonas’
pretty sure that’s too low
lovetox
ok so 10 seems good?
jonas’
try 60
lovetox
Oo
Zash
I've got a 20 second connection timeout and it seems fine most of the time
jonas’
what are you gonna do when the timeout trips anyways?
lovetox
what for? you think a user waits 60 seconds for gajim to connect?
lovetox
he kills the application 5 times in that time
jonas’
only if it blocks
jonas’
(which it most certainly should not)
lovetox
has nothing to do with blocking
jonas’
it has
lovetox
no its about the time a user waits
flow
i'd say it's about the UX
jonas’
we seem to come back to this. giving feedback about a long running operation is better than incentivising the user to throw away progress early
lovetox
yeah its UX
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lovetox
there is no feedback jonas
flow
maybe if it clearly make it visible that there is a 20s timeout going on
jonas’
lovetox, yeah, that’s the problem then.
lovetox
there is no progress for a tcp connection
jonas’
add feedback.
flow
like a circle that fills up
jonas’
"This seems to take longer than expected. We’re still trying, check your connection in the meantime"✎
jonas’
after N (which should be much smaller than timeout) seconds you show "This seems to take longer than expected. We’re still trying, check your connection in the meantime" ✏
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Guus
> Hi everyone. Can someone create a wiki account for me on wiki.xmpp.org? I'm currently at the the Düsseldorf sprint and it would be helpful if I could edit our sprint page. Hope this is the right place to ask. My mail is klaus@jsxc.org and my preferred nick is sualko. Thanks a lot.
I just created an account for you. You should have an activation email.
klaus
Thanks a lot
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Guus
np
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flow
Sam Whited, why do you consider switching from 2-clause bsd to apache license?
pep.
patents?
Sam Whited
flow: Apache has an explicit patent grant which makes corporate lawyer types happy and it has a provision for a notice file which makes me happy. I will miss how short the bsd style one is, but as far as I can tell (not being a lawyer) Apache is just the best written license out there.
Sam Whited
Still haven't decided though.
flow
Sam Whited, thanks for letting me know :)
Sam Whited
If anyone has expertise in this area, I'd love to hear other opinions.
moparisthebest
AGPL or bust :)
pep.
"best license" is quite subjective, but I know we disagree on this :)
moparisthebest
Honestly though all this "X or lawyers/businesses/etc won't like it" is crap, there are huge examples to prove every one wrong
moparisthebest
Essentially every business uses GPL Linux and modified-BSD curl for instance
Sam Whited
I'm not looking to change the type of license.
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Sam Whited
And every business doesn't work on Linux.
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moparisthebest
I'd suspect that's not true
moparisthebest
The thought of anyone going "hmm I can't use this thing because of BSD but if it was Apache I could" seems unbelievable
moparisthebest
I think Microsoft's biggest money maker today is Linux, via azure
pulkomandy
But Linux is essentially "GPL but we promise to not enforce it"
moparisthebest
I'm pretty sure it's been enforced
Sam Whited
Almost all businesses operate this way. Just because one or two exceptions exist where they don't mind contributing back doesn't mean most of them don't
moparisthebest
Operate what way?
Sam Whited
Don't want to use GPL on core business components, or have to potentially spend time responding to requests for source
Sam Whited
Anyways, opinions about BSD v Apache would be welcome if anyone wants to email me. I'm not engaging when every damn time I mention a license decision GPL zealots have to pivot to their preferred license.Please stop fmdoing that.
moparisthebest
I explicitly responded directly about Apache vs BSD, you're welcome :)
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Guus
Sam Whited: try reaching out to Matt Tucker. Back in the day, he moved Openfire et. al. to Apache. I'm not sure if BSD was considered, but if he did, he might have some insights that are valuable to you.
Sam Whited
Guus: thanks, will do.
moparisthebest: sorry for snapping, I've been getting a lot of “why won't you GPL?” lately so I've been a bit angry about it.
moparisthebest
No problem, it's my default generally but depends on a lot of things, no surprise I like LGPL for libraries often too