jdev - 2020-03-08

The only thing that annoys me is when a client could connect but gives up early, imho there is never a reason to do so

Name the user that would choose not to connect if connection is possible?

https://404.city/ looks pretty great

defanor, how could following "happy eyeballs" lead to scenarios where a connection is possible by a client failing to connect?

> https://404.city/ looks pretty great But he could use some spell checking.

flow: with "connect" being a shortcut for "open a usable stream" (as was discussed above), the potential issue mentioned above applies: a client only ends up with a single address/connection to proceed with, while a connection to another address could have been more useful (e.g., TLS failing on one, but not on another). It's not specific to "happy eyeballs" though, I just recalled thinking that if one was to attempt all the available

addresses until one works for getting to resource binding, it would be particularly awkward to implement with those.

Hi everyone. Can someone create a wiki account for me on wiki.xmpp.org? I'm currently at the the Düsseldorf sprint and it would be helpful if I could edit our sprint page. Hope this is the right place to ask. My mail is klaus@jsxc.org and my preferred nick is sualko. Thanks a lot.

Ge0rG, Guus ^ ?

There was also another request a few days ago? but apparently they're gone

"raucao> hi. i'd like to get an account on the wiki. is this the right place?"

what do you think about a 5 seconds TCP timeout when connecting to a server

or is this to low for slow connections?

too low for Link Mauve

pretty sure that’s too low

ok so 10 seems good?

try 60

Oo

I've got a 20 second connection timeout and it seems fine most of the time

what are you gonna do when the timeout trips anyways?

what for? you think a user waits 60 seconds for gajim to connect?

he kills the application 5 times in that time

only if it blocks

(which it most certainly should not)

has nothing to do with blocking

it has

no its about the time a user waits

i'd say it's about the UX

we seem to come back to this. giving feedback about a long running operation is better than incentivising the user to throw away progress early

yeah its UX

there is no feedback jonas

maybe if it clearly make it visible that there is a 20s timeout going on

lovetox, yeah, that’s the problem then.

there is no progress for a tcp connection

add feedback.

like a circle that fills up

after N (which should be much smaller than timeout) seconds you show "This seems to take longer than expected. We’re still trying, check your connection in the meantime" ✏

> Hi everyone. Can someone create a wiki account for me on wiki.xmpp.org? I'm currently at the the Düsseldorf sprint and it would be helpful if I could edit our sprint page. Hope this is the right place to ask. My mail is klaus@jsxc.org and my preferred nick is sualko. Thanks a lot. I just created an account for you. You should have an activation email.

Thanks a lot

np

Sam Whited, why do you consider switching from 2-clause bsd to apache license?

patents?

flow: Apache has an explicit patent grant which makes corporate lawyer types happy and it has a provision for a notice file which makes me happy. I will miss how short the bsd style one is, but as far as I can tell (not being a lawyer) Apache is just the best written license out there.

Still haven't decided though.

Sam Whited, thanks for letting me know :)

If anyone has expertise in this area, I'd love to hear other opinions.

AGPL or bust :)

"best license" is quite subjective, but I know we disagree on this :)

Honestly though all this "X or lawyers/businesses/etc won't like it" is crap, there are huge examples to prove every one wrong

Essentially every business uses GPL Linux and modified-BSD curl for instance

I'm not looking to change the type of license.

And every business doesn't work on Linux.

I'd suspect that's not true

The thought of anyone going "hmm I can't use this thing because of BSD but if it was Apache I could" seems unbelievable

I think Microsoft's biggest money maker today is Linux, via azure

But Linux is essentially "GPL but we promise to not enforce it"

I'm pretty sure it's been enforced

Almost all businesses operate this way. Just because one or two exceptions exist where they don't mind contributing back doesn't mean most of them don't

Operate what way?

Don't want to use GPL on core business components, or have to potentially spend time responding to requests for source

Anyways, opinions about BSD v Apache would be welcome if anyone wants to email me. I'm not engaging when every damn time I mention a license decision GPL zealots have to pivot to their preferred license.Please stop fmdoing that.

I explicitly responded directly about Apache vs BSD, you're welcome :)

Sam Whited: try reaching out to Matt Tucker. Back in the day, he moved Openfire et. al. to Apache. I'm not sure if BSD was considered, but if he did, he might have some insights that are valuable to you.

Guus: thanks, will do. moparisthebest: sorry for snapping, I've been getting a lot of “why won't you GPL?” lately so I've been a bit angry about it.

No problem, it's my default generally but depends on a lot of things, no surprise I like LGPL for libraries often too