jdev - 2020-04-04

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  139. lovetox finally i have some time to get a bit into gateway stuff
  140. lovetox the XEP says a client can add the gateway to its roster
  141. lovetox Gajim does that, and i never found a use for that
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  143. lovetox now i can chat with the gateway?
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  145. lovetox one thing that is useful, is its an entry point into issuing adhoc commands, but in Gajim you can do this from other parts of the application as well
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  147. Ge0rG lovetox: there is another benefit to that: the gateway is automatically receiving your presence updates
  148. lovetox ah ok so he relates my presence then to the other service
  149. Zash But it would also get presence for every contact it adds
  150. lovetox ok thats a reason to have it in the roster internally, is there a reason to expose this as UI contact in the roster?
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  152. Zash Sometimes there are ad-hoc commands or other actions you can take
  153. Zash While not a gateway, I have some pubsub services that works a bit like chat bots, and it's annoying when clients decide to hide them or prevent sending messages to them
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  156. lovetox ok lets say its a gateway for facebook
  157. lovetox facebook has a kind of roster
  158. lovetox if i register there, the gateway sends me presences of all the users on my facebook roster
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  160. lovetox then i can add them to my roster
  161. lovetox if i unregister from the transport i have to remove all the contacts from my roster
  162. Zash Didn't Gajim support roster item exchange?
  163. Zash There's also a thing where the transport is allowed direct access to your roster by the server.
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  167. lovetox Zash is this another XEP?
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  181. Zash lovetox: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0321.html
  182. Zash The other was https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0144.html
  183. lovetox thanks
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  198. lovetox hm, how can i keep track to what transports im registered?
  199. lovetox say i register to 5 transports, then i clear all my application data, reset my client, and login the first time again
  200. lovetox now the server sends me my roster, but i cant really know what of these contacts are gateways
  201. lovetox i would have to disco info every single contact
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  203. lovetox can i assume that all transport JIDs are only domains?
  204. lovetox so dont contain an @
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  211. Zash lovetox: Not sure if there are transports of this kind that are not bare host JIDs, however there may be bare host JIDs in the roster that are not transports.
  212. Zash I suppose you'll have to disco#info to be sure
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  215. lovetox yeah, but at least i dont have to disco info my whole roster
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  221. lovetox The address of a gateway itself SHOULD be a hostname only, and that hostname SHOULD NOT be supplemented with a resource identifier when referring to the gateway's address
  222. lovetox so i guess SHOULD is fine enough for me
  223. Zash You could also guess that it's a gateway if you also have a bunch of bare jids from the same domain.
  224. lovetox for now i plan, if its only a bare jid, then disco info, if it is a gateway send a iq:register to see if im registered
  225. lovetox or i can assume from the fact that i have a active subscription that im registered
  226. lovetox as XEP says on unregister the gateway should send unsubscribe
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  291. lovetox ok first transport i look into twitter from spectrum2
  292. lovetox and it sends me a presence with a caps node https://gajim.org
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  295. lovetox hm and spectrum2 project seems not very active
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  319. moparisthebest lovetox: cheogram.com is a transport I (and probably a lot of people) add and use from gajim
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  321. moparisthebest Gajim is the only client that properly marks contacts from it with a mobile phone icon
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  324. moparisthebest https://jmp.chat for a free trial if you want to play with it
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  343. lovetox thanks moparisthebest will try
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  356. lovetox moparisthebest, is there also something like jmp for non-us?
  357. lovetox if i use this to send a sms to someone where i live, and they answer they probably pay much because they are sending sms to the US
  358. moparisthebest You can send/recieve with non-us/Canada numbers but they haven't had luck finding providers in other countries
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  360. moparisthebest Everything they've found is much much more expensive
  361. lovetox yeah
  362. lovetox i looked it up its 7 cents from my country to that number
  363. moparisthebest lovetox: xmpp:discuss@conference.soprani.ca?join they have a wiki page where they've documented the providers they have found but I can't find it at the moment
  364. lovetox foundit on their wiki thanks
  365. moparisthebest I did hack up Conversations to provide a similar UI using the number on your phone but I need to revisit that approach, probably conversations fork :'(
  366. lovetox Are there not flat rate tarifs in the US for sms?
  367. lovetox i understand that its nice to write from a xmpp clients sms
  368. lovetox but i dont know if i would pay for that
  369. lovetox if i can write sms from my smartphone for "free"
  370. lovetox as in i already pay a flatrate
  371. moparisthebest In the US most SMS plans are just unlimited everything for 1 price
  372. lovetox but seems there are some people who pay for that, otherwise the service would not exist
  373. Zash but are they actually unlimited?
  374. moparisthebest So if you use the last 3 commits from https://github.com/moparisthebest/Conversations/commits/sms and https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-echo-self you can have the same experience anywhere with your existing number
  375. moparisthebest Less bells and whistles, no SIP etc, but at least I don't need to use a damn phone keyboard
  376. moparisthebest Zash: for my use yes, usually they have a fine print limiting you to a few thousand I guess
  377. lovetox i wonder what keeps me from registering for a new phone number every 30 days
  378. lovetox if i own a domain and server, i could register a new user every 30 day
  379. moparisthebest Likely nothing, they are more FOSS guys than businessmen :)
  380. Zash moparisthebest: You reminded me of how annoying telcos are, and how annoyed I am by not being able to pay for what I use, with only variations of "unlimited (but not really)" to choose from
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  382. Zash I miss pay-as-you-go :(
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  417. flow lovetox, I think there is much knowledge about how gateways/transports are used in PSI's codebase (and probably gajim's too)
  418. flow at least when I think at the era where transports where widely used to bridge to ICQ, MSN, etc. those where the clients you would use
  419. flow I still look back at the time when gajim introduced the mata-contact feature in the roster, that was really great!
  420. lovetox yeah i still think about how to use meta-contacts in a more useful wa
  421. lovetox yeah i still think about how to use meta-contacts in a more useful way
  422. lovetox its kind of outdated now
  423. Zash There are still those with multiple JIDs, and bridges are apparently coming back for another round
  424. lovetox The problem now with transports is to actually find ones that you can develop against
  425. lovetox transports that are good and actively maintained
  426. lovetox Zash, of course but how would that meta contact work in practice
  427. lovetox of course i can group multiple jids into one
  428. lovetox but now most of the time all JIDs are online
  429. lovetox compared to 10 years ago where only one was online when you were at work, and one when you were at home
  430. lovetox so the client always knew, ok i send the message to the online jid
  431. lovetox but now with multiple online contacts, its seems weird to spread the messages to multiple devices
  432. flow lovetox, I had a lot of contacts with MSN, ICQ, simultanously online ~15 years ago
  433. flow metacontacts IIRC made the roster much more accessible
  434. lovetox im not talking about the user perspective, of course one contact is nicer then 3
  435. lovetox but is it not weird to send messages to the more "active" jid
  436. lovetox if both are online
  437. lovetox and spreach history over different clients
  438. lovetox that are not even synced, they are on different networks
  439. lovetox *spread
  440. Zash Maybe bring back the resource locking thing? :)
  441. Zash I guess it'll be annoying to have MAM stuff spread over multiple users too
  442. Zash So, the lession we learned was that transports will never work perfectly.
  443. Zash Their purpose is to reach those who has yet to see the light while letting you stay in the comforts of XMPP
  444. lovetox and it becomes more compicated with E2E in the picture
  445. Zash Making it a touch annoying is probably fine, you can't avoid it, and if it encourages switching to native XMPP then that's great
  446. lovetox imagine you put one skype contact and one xmpp contact into one meta contact
  447. lovetox one has E2E the other not
  448. Zash Ugh
  449. lovetox and the client switching between them based on activity
  450. Zash If you use E2EE, always use E2EE
  451. Zash Unless the user otherwise I guess
  452. lovetox to solve stuff like that it gets so complex and you have to handle so many cases
  453. lovetox that i just question is it worth it?
  454. lovetox only thing i could see, is that metacontact is like a group thingy, where we just show the user, these JIDs belong all to the same person
  455. lovetox but in the end letting the user choose to which address to write
  456. lovetox not trying to do some magic
  457. lovetox and merging history from all 3
  458. lovetox so if the contact writes from any of his devices, it shows in the same chat window
  459. Zash where did I put my phone?
  460. Zash Dunno how other phones handle it, but Sailfish has a selector thing for different contact methods in the chat/sms where you can pick which phone number to send to. (or XMPP address, or other methods)
  461. lovetox yeah something like that i imagine also
  462. Zash No idea if it automagically switches if a reply is received from a different method
  463. lovetox yeah we could do something like that, switch automatically to the jid we received a message from
  464. lovetox so a bit of magic is possible
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  512. lovetox hm i heard some do purge offline messges and only sync with mam
  513. lovetox but to be safe i should only do this if i know mam is activated on my account
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  515. lovetox was there any gotcha with enablind carbons?
  516. lovetox or is simply enabling before sending first presence enough
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