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lovetox
finally i have some time to get a bit into gateway stuff
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lovetox
the XEP says a client can add the gateway to its roster
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lovetox
Gajim does that, and i never found a use for that
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lovetox
now i can chat with the gateway?
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lovetox
one thing that is useful, is its an entry point into issuing adhoc commands, but in Gajim you can do this from other parts of the application as well
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Ge0rG
lovetox: there is another benefit to that: the gateway is automatically receiving your presence updates
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lovetox
ah ok so he relates my presence then to the other service
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Zash
But it would also get presence for every contact it adds
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lovetox
ok thats a reason to have it in the roster internally, is there a reason to expose this as UI contact in the roster?
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Zash
Sometimes there are ad-hoc commands or other actions you can take
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Zash
While not a gateway, I have some pubsub services that works a bit like chat bots, and it's annoying when clients decide to hide them or prevent sending messages to them
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lovetox
ok lets say its a gateway for facebook
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lovetox
facebook has a kind of roster
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lovetox
if i register there, the gateway sends me presences of all the users on my facebook roster
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lovetox
then i can add them to my roster
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lovetox
if i unregister from the transport i have to remove all the contacts from my roster
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Zash
Didn't Gajim support roster item exchange?
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Zash
There's also a thing where the transport is allowed direct access to your roster by the server.
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lovetox
Zash is this another XEP?
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Zash
lovetox: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0321.html
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Zash
The other was https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0144.html
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lovetox
thanks
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lovetox
hm, how can i keep track to what transports im registered?
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lovetox
say i register to 5 transports, then i clear all my application data, reset my client, and login the first time again
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lovetox
now the server sends me my roster, but i cant really know what of these contacts are gateways
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lovetox
i would have to disco info every single contact
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lovetox
can i assume that all transport JIDs are only domains?
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lovetox
so dont contain an @
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Zash
lovetox: Not sure if there are transports of this kind that are not bare host JIDs, however there may be bare host JIDs in the roster that are not transports.
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Zash
I suppose you'll have to disco#info to be sure
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lovetox
yeah, but at least i dont have to disco info my whole roster
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lovetox
The address of a gateway itself SHOULD be a hostname only, and that hostname SHOULD NOT be supplemented with a resource identifier when referring to the gateway's address
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lovetox
so i guess SHOULD is fine enough for me
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Zash
You could also guess that it's a gateway if you also have a bunch of bare jids from the same domain.
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lovetox
for now i plan, if its only a bare jid, then disco info, if it is a gateway send a iq:register to see if im registered
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lovetox
or i can assume from the fact that i have a active subscription that im registered
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lovetox
as XEP says on unregister the gateway should send unsubscribe
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lovetox
ok first transport i look into twitter from spectrum2
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lovetox
and it sends me a presence with a caps node https://gajim.org
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lovetox
hm and spectrum2 project seems not very active
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moparisthebest
lovetox: cheogram.com is a transport I (and probably a lot of people) add and use from gajim
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moparisthebest
Gajim is the only client that properly marks contacts from it with a mobile phone icon
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moparisthebest
https://jmp.chat for a free trial if you want to play with it
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lovetox
thanks moparisthebest will try
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lovetox
moparisthebest, is there also something like jmp for non-us?
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lovetox
if i use this to send a sms to someone where i live, and they answer they probably pay much because they are sending sms to the US
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moparisthebest
You can send/recieve with non-us/Canada numbers but they haven't had luck finding providers in other countries
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moparisthebest
Everything they've found is much much more expensive
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lovetox
yeah
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lovetox
i looked it up its 7 cents from my country to that number
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moparisthebest
lovetox: xmpp:discuss@conference.soprani.ca?join they have a wiki page where they've documented the providers they have found but I can't find it at the moment
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lovetox
foundit on their wiki thanks
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moparisthebest
I did hack up Conversations to provide a similar UI using the number on your phone but I need to revisit that approach, probably conversations fork :'(
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lovetox
Are there not flat rate tarifs in the US for sms?
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lovetox
i understand that its nice to write from a xmpp clients sms
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lovetox
but i dont know if i would pay for that
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lovetox
if i can write sms from my smartphone for "free"
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lovetox
as in i already pay a flatrate
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moparisthebest
In the US most SMS plans are just unlimited everything for 1 price
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lovetox
but seems there are some people who pay for that, otherwise the service would not exist
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Zash
but are they actually unlimited?
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moparisthebest
So if you use the last 3 commits from https://github.com/moparisthebest/Conversations/commits/sms and https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-echo-self you can have the same experience anywhere with your existing number
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moparisthebest
Less bells and whistles, no SIP etc, but at least I don't need to use a damn phone keyboard
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moparisthebest
Zash: for my use yes, usually they have a fine print limiting you to a few thousand I guess
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lovetox
i wonder what keeps me from registering for a new phone number every 30 days
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lovetox
if i own a domain and server, i could register a new user every 30 day
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moparisthebest
Likely nothing, they are more FOSS guys than businessmen :)
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Zash
moparisthebest: You reminded me of how annoying telcos are, and how annoyed I am by not being able to pay for what I use, with only variations of "unlimited (but not really)" to choose from
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Zash
I miss pay-as-you-go :(
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flow
lovetox, I think there is much knowledge about how gateways/transports are used in PSI's codebase (and probably gajim's too)
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flow
at least when I think at the era where transports where widely used to bridge to ICQ, MSN, etc. those where the clients you would use
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flow
I still look back at the time when gajim introduced the mata-contact feature in the roster, that was really great!
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lovetox
yeah i still think about how to use meta-contacts in a more useful wa✎ -
lovetox
yeah i still think about how to use meta-contacts in a more useful way ✏
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lovetox
its kind of outdated now
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Zash
There are still those with multiple JIDs, and bridges are apparently coming back for another round
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lovetox
The problem now with transports is to actually find ones that you can develop against
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lovetox
transports that are good and actively maintained
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lovetox
Zash, of course but how would that meta contact work in practice
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lovetox
of course i can group multiple jids into one
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lovetox
but now most of the time all JIDs are online
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lovetox
compared to 10 years ago where only one was online when you were at work, and one when you were at home
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lovetox
so the client always knew, ok i send the message to the online jid
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lovetox
but now with multiple online contacts, its seems weird to spread the messages to multiple devices
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flow
lovetox, I had a lot of contacts with MSN, ICQ, simultanously online ~15 years ago
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flow
metacontacts IIRC made the roster much more accessible
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lovetox
im not talking about the user perspective, of course one contact is nicer then 3
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lovetox
but is it not weird to send messages to the more "active" jid
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lovetox
if both are online
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lovetox
and spreach history over different clients
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lovetox
that are not even synced, they are on different networks
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lovetox
*spread
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Zash
Maybe bring back the resource locking thing? :)
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Zash
I guess it'll be annoying to have MAM stuff spread over multiple users too
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Zash
So, the lession we learned was that transports will never work perfectly.
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Zash
Their purpose is to reach those who has yet to see the light while letting you stay in the comforts of XMPP
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lovetox
and it becomes more compicated with E2E in the picture
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Zash
Making it a touch annoying is probably fine, you can't avoid it, and if it encourages switching to native XMPP then that's great
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lovetox
imagine you put one skype contact and one xmpp contact into one meta contact
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lovetox
one has E2E the other not
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Zash
Ugh
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lovetox
and the client switching between them based on activity
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Zash
If you use E2EE, always use E2EE
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Zash
Unless the user otherwise I guess
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lovetox
to solve stuff like that it gets so complex and you have to handle so many cases
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lovetox
that i just question is it worth it?
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lovetox
only thing i could see, is that metacontact is like a group thingy, where we just show the user, these JIDs belong all to the same person
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lovetox
but in the end letting the user choose to which address to write
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lovetox
not trying to do some magic
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lovetox
and merging history from all 3
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lovetox
so if the contact writes from any of his devices, it shows in the same chat window
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Zash
where did I put my phone?
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Zash
Dunno how other phones handle it, but Sailfish has a selector thing for different contact methods in the chat/sms where you can pick which phone number to send to. (or XMPP address, or other methods)
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lovetox
yeah something like that i imagine also
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Zash
No idea if it automagically switches if a reply is received from a different method
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lovetox
yeah we could do something like that, switch automatically to the jid we received a message from
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lovetox
so a bit of magic is possible
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lovetox
hm i heard some do purge offline messges and only sync with mam
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lovetox
but to be safe i should only do this if i know mam is activated on my account
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lovetox
was there any gotcha with enablind carbons?
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lovetox
or is simply enabling before sending first presence enough