lovetoxi can even differentiate between a phone client and desktop client :D
MattJYes, I wish more clients used this info :(
MattJ"Sorry I'm slow, I'm typing on mobile" would not need to be stated every time
MattJand people on desktops would have no excuse for typos! We can fnially hold them to higher standards!
Ge0rGMattJ: overlay the avatar in the typing notification with a device icon?
lovetoxGajim has that feature :)
lovetoxi think jonas’ requested it once
HolgerAnyway, at least in Dino and Conversations, I don't see any difference for IRC channels vs. MUC rooms. (Why would I want to, BTW?)
ZashNumber of features would work as if nobody supported them
lovetoxHolger, because they are in many ways different
ZashThere are also funky things with nicknames
lovetoxbut its a good point, actually i should disable many things in the client depending on the transport
lovetoxLMC / Nick change / Encryption make not much sense in a IRC channel
moparisthebestLMC works with the fallback I guess, why not nick change?
lovetoxmoparisthebest, users use LMC because they think other see it as they see it
lovetoxit does not make much sense to send a 20 word sentence again and change one letter
lovetoxthere are shorter methods to do that
moparisthebestit's super annoying in MUCs when your client doesn't support it too (like dino)
ZashDino supports LMC now tho :)
lovetoxso i want to tell the user, there is no correction, so think about what you send
moparisthebestyou don't disable it when non-LMC xmpp clients are in there, how is an IRC client different :)
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, XMPP clients can implement it (and should), IRC clients not so much.
lovetoxmoparisthebest, in XMPP every user can choose a different nick per MUC
lovetoxin IRC you have on nick per Server
lovetoxin IRC you have one nick per Server
moparisthebestright but that's up to the transport to manage, I still might want to change my nick
lovetoxso to offer a nick change in a IRC MUC for an XMPP user gives him the wrong idea
lovetoxim not saying i disallow nick changes on irc bridges, but i think there is a better place for it
moparisthebestI can change my nick in biboumi in channels I think... it's been awhile since I have
ZashYou can, but it changes everywhere.
ZashWhich is ... fun.
pep.yep and then you also get a message from the server telling your to do the nickserv dance to identity again etc. etc.., and some clients will change the nick in every single bookmark and next time you try to reconnect it's.. ugh
pep.yep and then you also get a message from the server telling your to do the nickserv dance to identify again etc. etc.., and some clients will change the nick in every single bookmark and next time you try to reconnect it's.. ugh
ZashAnd some clients update the bookmark, some other clients fiddle with it, weird stuff happens.
ZashIf you're lucky all clients eventually agree on the same nickname
pep.To me the most annoying is NickServ nonetheless
pep.That authentication is not handled by the transport itself (if it's even possible)
ZashCan't remember touching NickServ since I set up Biboumi
ZashPretty sure it handles it for me
pep.Because you don't change nicknames? :p
lovetoxpep. you can
lovetoxwith adhoc command you can configure the irc server to execute the auth script on connect
pep.lovetox, you can with sasl that very few IRC servers support
pep.For clients that even do ad-hoc
ZashUsually I end up with "zash" or "Zash"
pep.lovetox, and you still need to register once
lovetoxof course, but you have also to register with xmpp
pep.yeah but not on every single server, and why are they all different and why do I need to log in on XMPP and then on IRC etc.. lots of things that users shouldn't have to worry about :)
lovetoxyeah but i guess people who use irc can manage
pep.Somebody has experience with Matrix / IRC briding?
pep.Is it this painful?
ZashOnly seen it from the IRC (actually XMPP) side
pep.Yeah, not the best side to see it from
pep.They don't give a damn about the rest
lovetoxor another point, it does not make sense to display presence show value in a IRC
pep.What's a use-case for normal type messages?
pep.Are they used in IM at all
Ge0rGpep.: for 0184 ;)
pep.Ge0rG, can you detail?
pep.to avoid ending up in MAM or something?
ZashMAM result containers are type=normal I tihnk
Ge0rGZash: not headline?
Ge0rGpep.: the authors of 0184 forgot to make it type=chat so it implicitly became type=normal, causing all sorts of trouble
pep.Would a client send @type=normal on purpose? Or an action from a user that would require @type=normal or something
ZashGajim and Psi ha[sd] email-looking ways of sending type=normal
ZashGe0rG, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.xml ^F headline only one match in a section about what one might save in the archive
pep.Would a new XEP nowadays use normal for anything? In the IM use-case. What would be an appropriate use of @type=normal?
pep.(and outside of IM)
Zash@type=chat is the new normal!
pep.pubsub is headline right
Zashyee.... actually you can choose
Ge0rGSo MAM messages could end up in MAM, right? ;)
ZashGe0rG, and in Carbons!
ZashIIRC it already happened
Ge0rGSigh. Another hour well spent on... https://stackoverflow.com/a/16710246/539443
pep.Would be great to have some informational XEP on the different types in use and what they're actually for (contrary to what the RFCs say if it's different)
pep.As some kind of errata for later
Ge0rGWhoops, that was the wrong channel. Sorry.
Ge0rGpep.: I had an overview in my whats-wrong-in-xmpp presentation
moparisthebestbut it's 2020 so that's all fixed by now, right?
pulkomandyJabber4BeOS (now Renga) used to handle normal as "icq style" messages, each message would popup a new window. But that was 20 years ago and there already was an option to handle them like chat with a more usual instant messaging style
lovetoxi think some MUC invite uses type=normal
lovetoxwas it direct or mediated
lovetoxi dont know anymore
lovetoxit was mediated
Ge0rGlovetox: probably an oversight in the XEP
lovetoxit says MUST be type normal
lovetoxthat does not sound like a oopsi
lovetoxwhat else would it be?
lovetoxtype chat from a muc?
Ge0rGnothing wrong with that ;)
lovetoxhm someone thought its wrong, so wrong that he added a MUST
Ge0rGAuthor: Peter Saint-Andre <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Mon Apr 30 16:22:14 2007 +0000
invitation tweak per list discussion
Ge0rGit was "the message MUST NOT possess a 'type' attribute" before