right but that's up to the transport to manage, I still might want to change my nick
lovetox
so to offer a nick change in a IRC MUC for an XMPP user gives him the wrong idea
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lovetox
im not saying i disallow nick changes on irc bridges, but i think there is a better place for it
moparisthebest
I can change my nick in biboumi in channels I think... it's been awhile since I have
Zash
You can, but it changes everywhere.
Zash
Which is ... fun.
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moparisthebest
yep
pep.
yep and then you also get a message from the server telling your to do the nickserv dance to identity again etc. etc.., and some clients will change the nick in every single bookmark and next time you try to reconnect it's.. ugh✎
pep.
yep and then you also get a message from the server telling your to do the nickserv dance to identify again etc. etc.., and some clients will change the nick in every single bookmark and next time you try to reconnect it's.. ugh ✏
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Zash
And some clients update the bookmark, some other clients fiddle with it, weird stuff happens.
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Zash
If you're lucky all clients eventually agree on the same nickname
pep.
To me the most annoying is NickServ nonetheless
pep.
That authentication is not handled by the transport itself (if it's even possible)
Zash
Can't remember touching NickServ since I set up Biboumi
Zash
Pretty sure it handles it for me
pep.
Because you don't change nicknames? :p
lovetox
pep. you can
lovetox
with adhoc command you can configure the irc server to execute the auth script on connect
pep.
lovetox, you can with sasl that very few IRC servers support
pep.
lovetox, sure
pep.
For clients that even do ad-hoc
Zash
Usually I end up with "zash" or "Zash"
pep.
lovetox, and you still need to register once
lovetox
of course, but you have also to register with xmpp
lovetox
so..
pep.
yeah but not on every single server, and why are they all different and why do I need to log in on XMPP and then on IRC etc.. lots of things that users shouldn't have to worry about :)
lovetox
yeah but i guess people who use irc can manage
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pep.
Somebody has experience with Matrix / IRC briding?
pep.
Is it this painful?
Zash
Only seen it from the IRC (actually XMPP) side
pep.
Yeah, not the best side to see it from
pep.
They don't give a damn about the rest
lovetox
or another point, it does not make sense to display presence show value in a IRC
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pep.
What's a use-case for normal type messages?
pep.
Are they used in IM at all
Zash
🤷️
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Ge0rG
pep.: for 0184 ;)
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pep.
Ge0rG, can you detail?
pep.
to avoid ending up in MAM or something?
Zash
MAM result containers are type=normal I tihnk
Ge0rG
Zash: not headline?
Ge0rG
pep.: the authors of 0184 forgot to make it type=chat so it implicitly became type=normal, causing all sorts of trouble
pep.
Would a client send @type=normal on purpose? Or an action from a user that would require @type=normal or something
Zash
Gajim and Psi ha[sd] email-looking ways of sending type=normal
pep.
Right
Zash
Ge0rG, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.xml ^F headline only one match in a section about what one might save in the archive
pep.
Would a new XEP nowadays use normal for anything? In the IM use-case. What would be an appropriate use of @type=normal?
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pep.
(and outside of IM)
Zash
@type=chat is the new normal!
pep.
pubsub is headline right
Zash
yee.... actually you can choose
Ge0rG
So MAM messages could end up in MAM, right? ;)
Zash
Ge0rG, and in Carbons!
Ge0rG
Yes!
Zash
IIRC it already happened
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Ge0rG
Sigh. Another hour well spent on... https://stackoverflow.com/a/16710246/539443
pep.
Would be great to have some informational XEP on the different types in use and what they're actually for (contrary to what the RFCs say if it's different)
pep.
As some kind of errata for later
Ge0rG
Whoops, that was the wrong channel. Sorry.
Ge0rG
pep.: I had an overview in my whats-wrong-in-xmpp presentation
Jabber4BeOS (now Renga) used to handle normal as "icq style" messages, each message would popup a new window. But that was 20 years ago and there already was an option to handle them like chat with a more usual instant messaging style
lovetox
i think some MUC invite uses type=normal
lovetox
was it direct or mediated
lovetox
i dont know anymore
lovetox
it was mediated
Ge0rG
lovetox: probably an oversight in the XEP
lovetox
no
lovetox
it says MUST be type normal
lovetox
that does not sound like a oopsi
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lovetox
what else would it be?
lovetox
type chat from a muc?
Ge0rG
yeah.
Ge0rG
nothing wrong with that ;)
lovetox
hm someone thought its wrong, so wrong that he added a MUST
lovetox
:D
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Ge0rG
Author: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@jabber.org>
Date: Mon Apr 30 16:22:14 2007 +0000
invitation tweak per list discussion
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Ge0rG
it was "the message MUST NOT possess a 'type' attribute" before