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lovetox
18:39:30
jonas’, extend away should actualy be called busy
lovetox
18:39:35
then it would make more sense
lovetox
18:39:58
meaning im in a call or a meeting, im at my pc but im busy
lovetox
18:40:11
still receiving notifications and message and may answer if someone writes me
lovetox
18:40:38
compared to dnd, where im maybe holding a presentation, will not get notifications and will definitly not answer
lovetox
18:40:58
and away is just away from the pc, and the reason should be mentions in the status message
lovetox
18:42:04
actually thats what skype does, maybe im biased because i have to use it at work, but these states always made sense for me
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lovetox
18:42:45
compared to extended away, what does that even mean, im a little more away from my pc then with only away
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jonas’
19:33:41
what’s the difference between busy and dnd?
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theTedd
19:38:09
from RFC 6121; 4.7.2.1 Show Element:
away -- The entity or resource is temporarily away.
chat -- The entity or resource is actively interested in chatting.
dnd -- The entity or resource is busy (dnd = "Do Not Disturb").
xa -- The entity or resource is away for an extended period (xa = "eXtended Away").
theTedd
19:38:20
busy = dnd
theTedd
19:38:26
idle = away
theTedd
19:38:33
'really away' = xa
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jonas’
19:38:45
theTedd, that was in reply to lovetox’:
> 18:39:58 lovetox> meaning im in a call or a meeting, im at my pc but im busy
[…]
18:40:38 lovetox> compared to dnd, where im maybe holding a presentation, will not get notifications and will definitly not answer ✎
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jonas’
19:38:53
theTedd, that was in reply to lovetox’:
> 18:39:58 lovetox> meaning im in a call or a meeting, im at my pc but im busy
> […]
> 18:40:38 lovetox> compared to dnd, where im maybe holding a presentation, will not get notifications and will definitly not answer ✏
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jonas’
19:39:07
also, theTedd, thanks.
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19:41:21
lovetox
19:41:23
i thought i made the difference clear
theTedd
19:41:37
from around the 2000s, msn/live messenger had several extra 'away' states, which we could have argued fit into 'extended away' as lovetox suggests it, but the rfc says otherwise
lovetox
19:41:52
DND means, i will not get notified if you send me something, i will no know that you send me something, and i will not answer
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jonas’
19:42:37
I’m not sure when I’d use "busy" instead of "dnd"
jonas’
19:42:57
if I’m too busy to react, I don’t want notifications either. maybe that’s just me?
lovetox
19:42:59
if you are in a meeting but not presenting you use busy
theTedd
19:43:13
"I'm busy, but please distract me"
lovetox
19:43:15
that means if someone writes you he cannot expect that you write back, but he has a chance
lovetox
19:43:21
while with DND he has no chance
lovetox
19:43:26
you will not even see his messges
jonas’
19:43:35
no, I’m either offline (if I don’t want to be distracted), dnd (if I have to have read access) or online (if I’m ok with replying) ✎
jonas’
19:43:47
no, I’m either offline (if I don’t want to be distracted), dnd (if I have to have controlled read access) or online (if I’m ok with replying) ✏
lovetox
19:43:48
you cant be offline
jonas’
19:43:55
lovetox, tell that to networkmanager
lovetox
19:43:57
if you are disconnected you can have a call ✎
lovetox
19:44:07
if you are disconnected you cant have a call ✏
jonas’
19:44:09
aha
jonas’
19:44:11
riiight
lovetox
19:44:25
as i said above, think about skype
jonas’
19:44:28
now that makes a bit more sense now, I didn’t consider the chat being the thing where I’m busy in
lovetox
19:44:31
you are in a group call, for eample
jonas’
19:44:34
I never really used skype
jonas’
19:44:41
aynways, gotta run now
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lovetox
19:45:13
theTedd, i dont see the difference between idle and extended away
lovetox
19:45:25
idle means my computer is idle for a prolonged time
lovetox
19:45:29
means im not at the computer
lovetox
19:45:35
so away from the computer
lovetox
19:45:50
extended away is a matter of interpretation
theTedd
19:45:57
yes, it's "auto-away" probably temporary
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lovetox
19:46:03
for some people 20 minutes not on your job computer, is really long
lovetox
19:46:12
for me 5 hours is really short
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theTedd
19:46:23
extended away is either intentional "not here!" or auto away after a long period
lovetox
19:47:09
yeah ok, but state is something you want to tell to others, and if someone esle sees you are beeing "extended away"
lovetox
19:47:14
this means essentially nothing
theTedd
19:47:22
they don't, they only see 'away'
lovetox
19:47:24
becuase it could mean you come back in the next minute
lovetox
19:47:27
or in the next hour
lovetox
19:47:30
or in the next week
theTedd
19:48:06
you have the option to tell when you'll be back, otherwise there's no way to know anyway
lovetox
19:48:07
are you saying other clients should not show the a difference between xa and away?
lovetox
19:48:58
but thats what i mean, for other people xa or away makes no difference
lovetox
19:49:00
you are not here
lovetox
19:49:10
and they cannot know for how long, except you tell them
theTedd
19:49:17
away should be for a short time only - it should become xa after a (configurable) reasonable time
lovetox
19:49:34
ha you say that, and Gajim has exactly that code
lovetox
19:49:46
but im questioning if this is still useful
lovetox
19:49:52
because we have idle time
lovetox
19:49:58
people know how long im away
lovetox
19:50:04
they dont need the state for that
theTedd
19:50:04
if you enable that
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lovetox
19:50:31
of course, if not i wouldnt also enable xa after x minutes, because that would also reveal info
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theTedd
19:50:59
you can enable xa after n minutes without indicating n
lovetox
19:51:24
either way, i cant really change the meaning of extended away can i?
lovetox
19:51:30
it really says "away"
theTedd
19:51:37
it's in the the rfc, so you'll struggle
lovetox
19:51:39
i cant make it to "here but busy"
lovetox
19:51:49
all clients will interpret it wrong
lovetox
19:51:54
damn
theTedd
19:52:29
busy is usually assumed "I may not see your message, even though I am here (doing something)"
lovetox
19:55:07
so if you think about a client that can make phone calls
lovetox
19:55:21
would you switch to DND once the call starts?
Zash
19:55:31
Are you saying that "here but busy" is not dnd?
lovetox
19:55:36
its probably a bit too much
theTedd
19:55:45
show=dnd, status="in a call"
theTedd
19:56:57
Zash, lovetox would like two 'busy' states: busy but distractable, and very busy
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theTedd
19:58:25
from the client side that's easy, but it wouldn't indicate to a sender whether you will be notified (but you're busy either way)
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Zash
20:09:48
Hmmm
Zash
20:11:32
User Activity? Other PEP thing?
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