jdev - 2020-05-27

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  237. lovetox

    jonas’, extend away should actualy be called busy

  238. lovetox

    then it would make more sense

  239. lovetox

    meaning im in a call or a meeting, im at my pc but im busy

  240. lovetox

    still receiving notifications and message and may answer if someone writes me

  241. lovetox

    compared to dnd, where im maybe holding a presentation, will not get notifications and will definitly not answer

  242. lovetox

    and away is just away from the pc, and the reason should be mentions in the status message

  243. lovetox

    actually thats what skype does, maybe im biased because i have to use it at work, but these states always made sense for me

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  245. lovetox

    compared to extended away, what does that even mean, im a little more away from my pc then with only away

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  281. jonas’

    what’s the difference between busy and dnd?

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  284. theTedd

    from RFC 6121; Show Element: away -- The entity or resource is temporarily away. chat -- The entity or resource is actively interested in chatting. dnd -- The entity or resource is busy (dnd = "Do Not Disturb"). xa -- The entity or resource is away for an extended period (xa = "eXtended Away").

  285. theTedd

    busy = dnd

  286. theTedd

    idle = away

  287. theTedd

    'really away' = xa

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  289. jonas’

    theTedd, that was in reply to lovetox’: > 18:39:58 lovetox> meaning im in a call or a meeting, im at my pc but im busy […] 18:40:38 lovetox> compared to dnd, where im maybe holding a presentation, will not get notifications and will definitly not answer

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  292. jonas’

    theTedd, that was in reply to lovetox’: > 18:39:58 lovetox> meaning im in a call or a meeting, im at my pc but im busy > […] > 18:40:38 lovetox> compared to dnd, where im maybe holding a presentation, will not get notifications and will definitly not answer

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  294. jonas’

    also, theTedd, thanks.

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  298. lovetox

    i thought i made the difference clear

  299. theTedd

    from around the 2000s, msn/live messenger had several extra 'away' states, which we could have argued fit into 'extended away' as lovetox suggests it, but the rfc says otherwise

  300. lovetox

    DND means, i will not get notified if you send me something, i will no know that you send me something, and i will not answer

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  302. jonas’

    I’m not sure when I’d use "busy" instead of "dnd"

  303. jonas’

    if I’m too busy to react, I don’t want notifications either. maybe that’s just me?

  304. lovetox

    if you are in a meeting but not presenting you use busy

  305. theTedd

    "I'm busy, but please distract me"

  306. lovetox

    that means if someone writes you he cannot expect that you write back, but he has a chance

  307. lovetox

    while with DND he has no chance

  308. lovetox

    you will not even see his messges

  309. jonas’

    no, I’m either offline (if I don’t want to be distracted), dnd (if I have to have read access) or online (if I’m ok with replying)

  310. jonas’

    no, I’m either offline (if I don’t want to be distracted), dnd (if I have to have controlled read access) or online (if I’m ok with replying)

  311. lovetox

    you cant be offline

  312. jonas’

    lovetox, tell that to networkmanager

  313. lovetox

    if you are disconnected you can have a call

  314. lovetox

    if you are disconnected you cant have a call

  315. jonas’


  316. jonas’


  317. lovetox

    as i said above, think about skype

  318. jonas’

    now that makes a bit more sense now, I didn’t consider the chat being the thing where I’m busy in

  319. lovetox

    you are in a group call, for eample

  320. jonas’

    I never really used skype

  321. jonas’

    aynways, gotta run now

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  323. lovetox

    theTedd, i dont see the difference between idle and extended away

  324. lovetox

    idle means my computer is idle for a prolonged time

  325. lovetox

    means im not at the computer

  326. lovetox

    so away from the computer

  327. lovetox

    extended away is a matter of interpretation

  328. theTedd

    yes, it's "auto-away" probably temporary

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  330. lovetox

    for some people 20 minutes not on your job computer, is really long

  331. lovetox

    for me 5 hours is really short

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  333. theTedd

    extended away is either intentional "not here!" or auto away after a long period

  334. lovetox

    yeah ok, but state is something you want to tell to others, and if someone esle sees you are beeing "extended away"

  335. lovetox

    this means essentially nothing

  336. theTedd

    they don't, they only see 'away'

  337. lovetox

    becuase it could mean you come back in the next minute

  338. lovetox

    or in the next hour

  339. lovetox

    or in the next week

  340. theTedd

    you have the option to tell when you'll be back, otherwise there's no way to know anyway

  341. lovetox

    are you saying other clients should not show the a difference between xa and away?

  342. lovetox

    but thats what i mean, for other people xa or away makes no difference

  343. lovetox

    you are not here

  344. lovetox

    and they cannot know for how long, except you tell them

  345. theTedd

    away should be for a short time only - it should become xa after a (configurable) reasonable time

  346. lovetox

    ha you say that, and Gajim has exactly that code

  347. lovetox

    but im questioning if this is still useful

  348. lovetox

    because we have idle time

  349. lovetox

    people know how long im away

  350. lovetox

    they dont need the state for that

  351. theTedd

    if you enable that

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  355. lovetox

    of course, if not i wouldnt also enable xa after x minutes, because that would also reveal info

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  357. theTedd

    you can enable xa after n minutes without indicating n

  358. lovetox

    either way, i cant really change the meaning of extended away can i?

  359. lovetox

    it really says "away"

  360. theTedd

    it's in the the rfc, so you'll struggle

  361. lovetox

    i cant make it to "here but busy"

  362. lovetox

    all clients will interpret it wrong

  363. lovetox


  364. theTedd

    busy is usually assumed "I may not see your message, even though I am here (doing something)"

  365. lovetox

    so if you think about a client that can make phone calls

  366. lovetox

    would you switch to DND once the call starts?

  367. Zash

    Are you saying that "here but busy" is not dnd?

  368. lovetox

    its probably a bit too much

  369. theTedd

    show=dnd, status="in a call"

  370. theTedd

    Zash, lovetox would like two 'busy' states: busy but distractable, and very busy

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  373. theTedd

    from the client side that's easy, but it wouldn't indicate to a sender whether you will be notified (but you're busy either way)

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  377. Zash


  378. Zash

    User Activity? Other PEP thing?

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