jdev - 2020-06-07

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  160. lovetox so anybody can help regarding my last question for jingle
  161. lovetox a session can have multiple contents
  162. lovetox how do i know when a content is finished transfering
  163. lovetox and the next begins
  164. lovetox do i need to negotiate transports for every content again?
  165. flow since the transports are a child element of content, i'd say yes
  166. flow also the available (or suited) transports may depend on the content
  167. flow for example, for real time audio, you may want to use a unreliable transport, which you certainly do not want to use for file transfer
  168. flow for example, for real-time audio you may want to use a unreliable transport, which you certainly do not want to use for file transfer
  169. lovetox but you should not put both in one session
  170. lovetox so thats not really a supported usecase
  171. flow both what?
  172. lovetox filetransfer and realtime audio
  173. flow dunno
  174. flow it certainly is unusual
  175. lovetox lets think about something simpler
  176. lovetox i want to transfer 5 files to you
  177. flow but can't a jingle session modified at any point?
  178. flow but can't a jingle session be modified at any point?
  179. lovetox i send a session with 5 content elements
  180. lovetox and then the first problem already begins
  181. flow A Jingle negotiation MAY result in the establishment of multiple file transfers by including multiple <content/> elements.
  182. lovetox my contact cant send me a candidate used, because he doesnt even know which content i want to transfer first
  183. flow so it looks like you can add 5 <descriptions> here
  184. lovetox that does also not work, because you have no way to signal the contact what file you are transfering of the 5
  185. lovetox he receives bytes, but does not know to which description they belong
  186. flow hmm reading xep234 i'd expect that the hash of the file is used to identify it in the transport
  187. lovetox he could try and match with size and hash afterwards, but i doubt that was intended
  188. lovetox sounds already like a workaround, and hashes are not mandatory
  189. lovetox i think..
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  192. lovetox my next idea would be to add only one content, then if its finished i send a content-add action and send the next
  193. lovetox but then the contact can no approve all files before the transfer starts
  194. lovetox so again not really good
  195. lovetox weird that this is so underspecified for a file transfer protocol
  196. flow yep
  197. flow ahh wait
  198. flow the quoted text above says multiple *content* elements
  199. lovetox yeah i know
  200. flow so you identify the file via the sid attribute
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  202. lovetox so, say i receive 5 contents
  203. flow that means that for multiple files jingle ft, <transport/> is usually duplicated, not nice, but works for me
  204. lovetox that means i start in parallel 5 negotiations for candidates
  205. lovetox then transfer all files at the same time
  206. flow right, then you have one session ID and multiple stream IDs
  207. flow potentially, sounds correct
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  209. lovetox yeah would work, for some reason i thought its better to use one connection for all files
  210. flow but ideally you would send the files sequencially and not in parallel
  211. lovetox but actually thats not really better or worse, it does not really matter how many connections i use
  212. lovetox yeah but i can still do that
  213. flow and somehow re-use information obtained about which transport works both for subsequent files
  214. lovetox only cause i have negotiated candidates does not mean i have to send?
  215. lovetox but then the connection breaks down after some time i guess
  216. lovetox ah i simply could stall the candidate-use info
  217. lovetox hm no thats also not optimal
  218. lovetox i could do sequentially with conent-add action
  219. lovetox but this would trigger a needed content-accept on any new content
  220. lovetox it would work though if the other client has some auto-accept functionality
  221. flow we could add an optional feature to xep234 that allows multiple <file> elements in <description>
  222. lovetox the problem with that is, that you dont know when one file begins and the other ends
  223. flow not if size if provided for all files
  224. lovetox there is no "end of file" signal in jingle
  225. lovetox thats also not enough
  226. flow why not?
  227. lovetox you would need to specify the order also then
  228. flow sure, simply the order the <file> elements appear in <description>
  229. lovetox yes one could do that
  230. lovetox yeah that seems an easy extension
  231. flow of course the disadvantage would be that the recipient can not select files to receive individually
  232. flow of course the disadvantage would be, that the recipient can not select files to receive individually
  233. lovetox we would just need a signal between that tells the other part which content should be negotiated
  234. lovetox so we dont have to do all in parallel
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  239. lovetox start-negotiation sid=12313
  240. flow that sounds like a more fundamental change to jingle
  241. lovetox yeah not really backwards compatible
  242. lovetox ah wait i think i have it
  243. lovetox you start an empty file transfer session without content
  244. lovetox then issue content-add action 5 times instantly
  245. lovetox each content needs a content-accept, before anything can happen
  246. flow yep, or you start an empty file transfer with one content and 4x content-add
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  248. flow yep, or you start an file transfer with one content and 4x content-add
  249. lovetox yes exactly
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  251. flow yep, or you start a file transfer with one content and 4x content-add
  252. flow I mean the first file transfer does not need to be empty
  253. lovetox yes
  254. lovetox hm but do we have a benefit here?
  255. lovetox now the user can instantly accept all files or reject single files
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  257. lovetox but after he accepts, still all are transfered in parallel
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  259. lovetox hm and its undefined if a content-add is valid on a not yet accepted session
  260. lovetox hm there is a flowchart https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html#def-action-content-add
  261. lovetox not sure what this tells me
  262. lovetox ok all actions are allowed in pending session state
  263. lovetox but for filetransfer i see no benefit in doing content-add compared to just session-initiate
  264. lovetox i think i just do 5 sessions, and if the user does not want to download all in parallel
  265. lovetox he should just not accept all at the same time
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