jdev - 2020-06-07


  1. lovetox has left
  2. waqas has left
  3. lovetox has joined
  4. moparisthebest has left
  5. moparisthebest has joined
  6. kikuchiyo has left
  7. lovetox has left
  8. adiaholic_ has left
  9. wurstsalat has left
  10. lovetox has joined
  11. nick has joined
  12. nick has left
  13. Yagizа has joined
  14. SouL has left
  15. Vaulor has left
  16. SouL has joined
  17. Vaulor has joined
  18. lovetox has left
  19. lovetox has joined
  20. adiaholic_ has joined
  21. lovetox has left
  22. lovetox has joined
  23. goffi has joined
  24. Kev has left
  25. asterix has joined
  26. Kev has joined
  27. wurstsalat has joined
  28. Yagizа has left
  29. asterix has left
  30. asterix has joined
  31. asterix has left
  32. asterix has joined
  33. goffi has left
  34. Yagizа has joined
  35. adiaholic_ has left
  36. goffi has joined
  37. adiaholic_ has joined
  38. adiaholic_ has left
  39. adiaholic_ has joined
  40. Martin has left
  41. Martin has joined
  42. kikuchiyo has joined
  43. kikuchiyo has left
  44. kikuchiyo has joined
  45. Martin has left
  46. Martin has joined
  47. Martin has left
  48. Martin has joined
  49. daidoji has left
  50. adiaholic_ has left
  51. adiaholic_ has joined
  52. Martin has left
  53. Martin has joined
  54. debacle has joined
  55. Martin has left
  56. Martin has joined
  57. eta has left
  58. eta has joined
  59. sonny has left
  60. adiaholic_ has left
  61. FireFly has left
  62. FireFly has joined
  63. adiaholic_ has joined
  64. asterix has left
  65. asterix has joined
  66. asterix has left
  67. asterix has joined
  68. kikuchiyo has left
  69. daidoji has joined
  70. Alex has left
  71. lovetox has left
  72. debacle has left
  73. kikuchiyo has joined
  74. moparisthebest has left
  75. moparisthebest has joined
  76. adiaholic_ has left
  77. adiaholic_ has joined
  78. kikuchiyo has left
  79. asterix has left
  80. asterix has joined
  81. asterix has left
  82. asterix has joined
  83. adiaholic_ has left
  84. adiaholic_ has joined
  85. Guus has left
  86. Guus has joined
  87. kikuchiyo has joined
  88. adiaholic_ has left
  89. adiaholic_ has joined
  90. Alex has joined
  91. asterix has left
  92. asterix has joined
  93. Yagizа has left
  94. kikuchiyo has left
  95. kikuchiyo has joined
  96. pulkomandy has left
  97. pulkomandy has joined
  98. waqas has joined
  99. waqas has left
  100. waqas has joined
  101. asterix has left
  102. asterix has joined
  103. asterix has left
  104. asterix has joined
  105. alexis has left
  106. adiaholic_ has left
  107. adiaholic_ has joined
  108. adiaholic_ has left
  109. pulkomandy has left
  110. pulkomandy has joined
  111. kikuchiyo has left
  112. adiaholic_ has joined
  113. adiaholic_ has left
  114. pulkomandy has left
  115. pulkomandy has joined
  116. asterix has left
  117. asterix has joined
  118. asterix has left
  119. asterix has joined
  120. pulkomandy has left
  121. pulkomandy has joined
  122. DebXWoody has joined
  123. pulkomandy has left
  124. pulkomandy has joined
  125. sonny has joined
  126. pulkomandy has left
  127. pulkomandy has joined
  128. pulkomandy has left
  129. pulkomandy has joined
  130. asterix has left
  131. asterix has joined
  132. asterix has left
  133. asterix has joined
  134. lovetox has joined
  135. pulkomandy has left
  136. adiaholic_ has joined
  137. pulkomandy has joined
  138. pulkomandy has left
  139. pulkomandy has joined
  140. pulkomandy has left
  141. pulkomandy has joined
  142. Yagizа has joined
  143. asterix has left
  144. asterix has joined
  145. Syndace has left
  146. pulkomandy has left
  147. pulkomandy has joined
  148. pulkomandy has left
  149. pulkomandy has joined
  150. pulkomandy has left
  151. pulkomandy has joined
  152. waqas has left
  153. pulkomandy has left
  154. pulkomandy has joined
  155. pulkomandy has left
  156. pulkomandy has joined
  157. asterix has left
  158. asterix has joined
  159. debacle has joined
  160. lovetox so anybody can help regarding my last question for jingle
  161. lovetox a session can have multiple contents
  162. lovetox how do i know when a content is finished transfering
  163. lovetox and the next begins
  164. lovetox do i need to negotiate transports for every content again?
  165. flow since the transports are a child element of content, i'd say yes
  166. flow also the available (or suited) transports may depend on the content
  167. flow for example, for real time audio, you may want to use a unreliable transport, which you certainly do not want to use for file transfer
  168. flow for example, for real-time audio you may want to use a unreliable transport, which you certainly do not want to use for file transfer
  169. lovetox but you should not put both in one session
  170. lovetox so thats not really a supported usecase
  171. flow both what?
  172. lovetox filetransfer and realtime audio
  173. flow dunno
  174. flow it certainly is unusual
  175. lovetox lets think about something simpler
  176. lovetox i want to transfer 5 files to you
  177. flow but can't a jingle session modified at any point?
  178. flow but can't a jingle session be modified at any point?
  179. lovetox i send a session with 5 content elements
  180. lovetox and then the first problem already begins
  181. flow A Jingle negotiation MAY result in the establishment of multiple file transfers by including multiple <content/> elements.
  182. lovetox my contact cant send me a candidate used, because he doesnt even know which content i want to transfer first
  183. flow so it looks like you can add 5 <descriptions> here
  184. lovetox that does also not work, because you have no way to signal the contact what file you are transfering of the 5
  185. lovetox he receives bytes, but does not know to which description they belong
  186. flow hmm reading xep234 i'd expect that the hash of the file is used to identify it in the transport
  187. lovetox he could try and match with size and hash afterwards, but i doubt that was intended
  188. lovetox sounds already like a workaround, and hashes are not mandatory
  189. lovetox i think..
  190. adiaholic_ has left
  191. adiaholic_ has joined
  192. lovetox my next idea would be to add only one content, then if its finished i send a content-add action and send the next
  193. lovetox but then the contact can no approve all files before the transfer starts
  194. lovetox so again not really good
  195. lovetox weird that this is so underspecified for a file transfer protocol
  196. flow yep
  197. flow ahh wait
  198. flow the quoted text above says multiple *content* elements
  199. lovetox yeah i know
  200. flow so you identify the file via the sid attribute
  201. edhelas has left
  202. lovetox so, say i receive 5 contents
  203. flow that means that for multiple files jingle ft, <transport/> is usually duplicated, not nice, but works for me
  204. lovetox that means i start in parallel 5 negotiations for candidates
  205. lovetox then transfer all files at the same time
  206. flow right, then you have one session ID and multiple stream IDs
  207. flow potentially, sounds correct
  208. edhelas has joined
  209. lovetox yeah would work, for some reason i thought its better to use one connection for all files
  210. flow but ideally you would send the files sequencially and not in parallel
  211. lovetox but actually thats not really better or worse, it does not really matter how many connections i use
  212. lovetox yeah but i can still do that
  213. flow and somehow re-use information obtained about which transport works both for subsequent files
  214. lovetox only cause i have negotiated candidates does not mean i have to send?
  215. lovetox but then the connection breaks down after some time i guess
  216. lovetox ah i simply could stall the candidate-use info
  217. lovetox hm no thats also not optimal
  218. lovetox i could do sequentially with conent-add action
  219. lovetox but this would trigger a needed content-accept on any new content
  220. lovetox it would work though if the other client has some auto-accept functionality
  221. flow we could add an optional feature to xep234 that allows multiple <file> elements in <description>
  222. lovetox the problem with that is, that you dont know when one file begins and the other ends
  223. flow not if size if provided for all files
  224. lovetox there is no "end of file" signal in jingle
  225. lovetox thats also not enough
  226. flow why not?
  227. lovetox you would need to specify the order also then
  228. flow sure, simply the order the <file> elements appear in <description>
  229. lovetox yes one could do that
  230. lovetox yeah that seems an easy extension
  231. flow of course the disadvantage would be that the recipient can not select files to receive individually
  232. flow of course the disadvantage would be, that the recipient can not select files to receive individually
  233. lovetox we would just need a signal between that tells the other part which content should be negotiated
  234. lovetox so we dont have to do all in parallel
  235. asterix has left
  236. asterix has joined
  237. asterix has left
  238. asterix has joined
  239. lovetox start-negotiation sid=12313
  240. flow that sounds like a more fundamental change to jingle
  241. lovetox yeah not really backwards compatible
  242. lovetox ah wait i think i have it
  243. lovetox you start an empty file transfer session without content
  244. lovetox then issue content-add action 5 times instantly
  245. lovetox each content needs a content-accept, before anything can happen
  246. flow yep, or you start an empty file transfer with one content and 4x content-add
  247. pulkomandy has left
  248. flow yep, or you start an file transfer with one content and 4x content-add
  249. lovetox yes exactly
  250. pulkomandy has joined
  251. flow yep, or you start a file transfer with one content and 4x content-add
  252. flow I mean the first file transfer does not need to be empty
  253. lovetox yes
  254. lovetox hm but do we have a benefit here?
  255. lovetox now the user can instantly accept all files or reject single files
  256. pulkomandy has left
  257. lovetox but after he accepts, still all are transfered in parallel
  258. pulkomandy has joined
  259. lovetox hm and its undefined if a content-add is valid on a not yet accepted session
  260. lovetox hm there is a flowchart https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html#def-action-content-add
  261. lovetox not sure what this tells me
  262. lovetox ok all actions are allowed in pending session state
  263. lovetox but for filetransfer i see no benefit in doing content-add compared to just session-initiate
  264. lovetox i think i just do 5 sessions, and if the user does not want to download all in parallel
  265. lovetox he should just not accept all at the same time
  266. Yagizа has left
  267. adiaholic_ has left
  268. adiaholic_ has joined
  269. DebXWoody has left
  270. asterix has left
  271. Syndace has joined
  272. alexis has joined
  273. lovetox has left
  274. sonny has left
  275. sonny has joined
  276. Beherit has left
  277. Beherit has joined
  278. goffi has left
  279. wurstsalat has left
  280. Alex has left
  281. paul has left
  282. Alex has joined
  283. debacle has left