jdev - 2020-06-07

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  160. lovetox

    so anybody can help regarding my last question for jingle

  161. lovetox

    a session can have multiple contents

  162. lovetox

    how do i know when a content is finished transfering

  163. lovetox

    and the next begins

  164. lovetox

    do i need to negotiate transports for every content again?

  165. flow

    since the transports are a child element of content, i'd say yes

  166. flow

    also the available (or suited) transports may depend on the content

  167. flow

    for example, for real time audio, you may want to use a unreliable transport, which you certainly do not want to use for file transfer

  168. flow

    for example, for real-time audio you may want to use a unreliable transport, which you certainly do not want to use for file transfer

  169. lovetox

    but you should not put both in one session

  170. lovetox

    so thats not really a supported usecase

  171. flow

    both what?

  172. lovetox

    filetransfer and realtime audio

  173. flow


  174. flow

    it certainly is unusual

  175. lovetox

    lets think about something simpler

  176. lovetox

    i want to transfer 5 files to you

  177. flow

    but can't a jingle session modified at any point?

  178. flow

    but can't a jingle session be modified at any point?

  179. lovetox

    i send a session with 5 content elements

  180. lovetox

    and then the first problem already begins

  181. flow

    A Jingle negotiation MAY result in the establishment of multiple file transfers by including multiple <content/> elements.

  182. lovetox

    my contact cant send me a candidate used, because he doesnt even know which content i want to transfer first

  183. flow

    so it looks like you can add 5 <descriptions> here

  184. lovetox

    that does also not work, because you have no way to signal the contact what file you are transfering of the 5

  185. lovetox

    he receives bytes, but does not know to which description they belong

  186. flow

    hmm reading xep234 i'd expect that the hash of the file is used to identify it in the transport

  187. lovetox

    he could try and match with size and hash afterwards, but i doubt that was intended

  188. lovetox

    sounds already like a workaround, and hashes are not mandatory

  189. lovetox

    i think..

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  192. lovetox

    my next idea would be to add only one content, then if its finished i send a content-add action and send the next

  193. lovetox

    but then the contact can no approve all files before the transfer starts

  194. lovetox

    so again not really good

  195. lovetox

    weird that this is so underspecified for a file transfer protocol

  196. flow


  197. flow

    ahh wait

  198. flow

    the quoted text above says multiple *content* elements

  199. lovetox

    yeah i know

  200. flow

    so you identify the file via the sid attribute

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  202. lovetox

    so, say i receive 5 contents

  203. flow

    that means that for multiple files jingle ft, <transport/> is usually duplicated, not nice, but works for me

  204. lovetox

    that means i start in parallel 5 negotiations for candidates

  205. lovetox

    then transfer all files at the same time

  206. flow

    right, then you have one session ID and multiple stream IDs

  207. flow

    potentially, sounds correct

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  209. lovetox

    yeah would work, for some reason i thought its better to use one connection for all files

  210. flow

    but ideally you would send the files sequencially and not in parallel

  211. lovetox

    but actually thats not really better or worse, it does not really matter how many connections i use

  212. lovetox

    yeah but i can still do that

  213. flow

    and somehow re-use information obtained about which transport works both for subsequent files

  214. lovetox

    only cause i have negotiated candidates does not mean i have to send?

  215. lovetox

    but then the connection breaks down after some time i guess

  216. lovetox

    ah i simply could stall the candidate-use info

  217. lovetox

    hm no thats also not optimal

  218. lovetox

    i could do sequentially with conent-add action

  219. lovetox

    but this would trigger a needed content-accept on any new content

  220. lovetox

    it would work though if the other client has some auto-accept functionality

  221. flow

    we could add an optional feature to xep234 that allows multiple <file> elements in <description>

  222. lovetox

    the problem with that is, that you dont know when one file begins and the other ends

  223. flow

    not if size if provided for all files

  224. lovetox

    there is no "end of file" signal in jingle

  225. lovetox

    thats also not enough

  226. flow

    why not?

  227. lovetox

    you would need to specify the order also then

  228. flow

    sure, simply the order the <file> elements appear in <description>

  229. lovetox

    yes one could do that

  230. lovetox

    yeah that seems an easy extension

  231. flow

    of course the disadvantage would be that the recipient can not select files to receive individually

  232. flow

    of course the disadvantage would be, that the recipient can not select files to receive individually

  233. lovetox

    we would just need a signal between that tells the other part which content should be negotiated

  234. lovetox

    so we dont have to do all in parallel

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  239. lovetox

    start-negotiation sid=12313

  240. flow

    that sounds like a more fundamental change to jingle

  241. lovetox

    yeah not really backwards compatible

  242. lovetox

    ah wait i think i have it

  243. lovetox

    you start an empty file transfer session without content

  244. lovetox

    then issue content-add action 5 times instantly

  245. lovetox

    each content needs a content-accept, before anything can happen

  246. flow

    yep, or you start an empty file transfer with one content and 4x content-add

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  248. flow

    yep, or you start an file transfer with one content and 4x content-add

  249. lovetox

    yes exactly

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  251. flow

    yep, or you start a file transfer with one content and 4x content-add

  252. flow

    I mean the first file transfer does not need to be empty

  253. lovetox


  254. lovetox

    hm but do we have a benefit here?

  255. lovetox

    now the user can instantly accept all files or reject single files

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  257. lovetox

    but after he accepts, still all are transfered in parallel

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  259. lovetox

    hm and its undefined if a content-add is valid on a not yet accepted session

  260. lovetox

    hm there is a flowchart https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html#def-action-content-add

  261. lovetox

    not sure what this tells me

  262. lovetox

    ok all actions are allowed in pending session state

  263. lovetox

    but for filetransfer i see no benefit in doing content-add compared to just session-initiate

  264. lovetox

    i think i just do 5 sessions, and if the user does not want to download all in parallel

  265. lovetox

    he should just not accept all at the same time

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