jdev - 2020-07-26


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  31. Жокир Just wondering, is there any particular reason why xmpp isn't length prefixed and rather the whole stream is one never ending document? I mean if it were length prefixed than inband binary data could be transmitted without b64
  32. Жокир Just wondering, is there any particular reason why xmpp isn't length prefixed and rather the whole stream is one never ending document? I mean if it were length prefixed than inband binary data could be transmitted without b64, among other things
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  38. lovetox sounds complicated
  39. lovetox sounds more complex to implement
  40. lovetox right now i just feed the stream to a parser
  41. lovetox i try to think about when i need inband data transfered
  42. lovetox and only avatars come to mind
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  76. Жокир > sounds more complex to implement Quite the contrary. If stanzas were length prefixed standalone documents you could just feed them to a regular dom building parser of which there are plenty for every language.
  77. lovetox and what is the difference to the parser i push it now?
  78. lovetox do you mean the xml would just end in the middle, like <data>binary data<data>?
  79. lovetox do you mean the xml would just end in the middle, like <data>binary data</data>?
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  81. lovetox if yes, this would of course be nice, but i maintain a decade old client, and as i said the only usecase come to mind are avatars
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  83. lovetox for everything else, you would want to have a out of band transfer that you prefereably can do async
  84. lovetox and i was not there back then, but i guess avatars was not on the mind of xmpp creators, and even if it would be debateable if you design a whole protocol around transfering avatars which is like 1% of xmpp usage or less
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  88. MattJ Data framing has some nice properties, but would essentially need everyone to write custom parsers
  89. MattJ XMPP over websocket is framed, FWIW, and supported by many servers
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  97. flow Жокир, I think the simple answer is: because XMPP re-uses XML as building block
  98. flow also it is *not* a never ending document, there is an end (at least if you use a transport that closes the connection by sending a closing </stream> tag)
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  216. Guus There are limits to max stanza lengths. I don't think that the spec defines a limit, only that one is allowed to exist.
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  219. Guus (although I can't immediately find it. Am I wrong here?)
  220. Zash > A deployed server's maximum stanza size MUST NOT be smaller than 10000 bytes
  221. Zash https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#rfc.section.13.12
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  408. lovetox the whole domain name stuff is insane
  409. lovetox luckily python has a idna lib for that
  410. lovetox and i discovered just now luckily it has a UTS46 mapping mode
  411. Zash IDNA 2003/2008 issue?
  412. lovetox 2008
  413. lovetox but imagine there would be no python lib for that
  414. lovetox and everybody who implements xmpp, needs to implement the whole idna spec with it
  415. lovetox probably would stop right there and do something different
  416. lovetox yeah easy to miss, the IDNA2003 spec required a mapping phase in the first stage
  417. lovetox for example XMPP.net -> xmpp.net
  418. lovetox IDNA2008 does not require or describe that phase anymore
  419. lovetox so if you do purley idna2008, then you end up with different JIDs here
  420. lovetox it seems they excluded that mapping spec to some other standard because its no strictly required anymore
  421. Zash IIRC our IDNA 2003 code didn't do any lowercasing.
  422. lovetox just discovered this now
  423. Zash But the current stuff seems to do it
  424. Zash "current" = future, actually
  425. lovetox apperently it does
  426. lovetox http://unicode.org/reports/tr46/#IDNA2003-Section
  427. lovetox or it did
  428. Zash $ idn <<< XMPP.net XMPP.net $ idn2 <<< XMPP.net xmpp.net
  429. Zash 🤷
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  432. lovetox then this is weird, because the standard says, IDNA2003 does require a mapping phase
  433. lovetox IDNA2008 does not
  434. lovetox but maybe this idn2 application just uses sane defaults
  435. lovetox and you can disable the mapping
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  437. lovetox just to be clear, 2008 does not require it as part of the IDNA standard
  438. Zash Keep in mind that with JIDs you'd do some stringprep or precis operation on the host part first
  439. lovetox but of course application can do a mapping if wished
  440. Zash IDNA is only for when you do DNS lookups, and DNS is case-insensitive
  441. lovetox Zash, you dont do any precis operation on the domain part
  442. Zash Not?
  443. Zash This topic. Are you trying to make everyone cry themselves to sleep tonight?
  444. lovetox no Zash, it refers to the IDNA rfc
  445. lovetox so we dont need IDNA only for dns lookups
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  447. lovetox we need it to know that a@XMPP.net = a@xmpp.net
  448. Zash So IDNA becomes the nameprep step then.
  449. lovetox yes
  450. lovetox to be precis IDNA2008 does no mapping, and requires no mapping
  451. lovetox you need a lib that implements IDNA2008, and the UTS46 mapping or some equivalent
  452. lovetox which is not specified in the idna spec
  453. lovetox hence, my first statement its all insane, and if there would be no lib that would just do that for me
  454. lovetox i probably would stop right there to develop my client :D
  455. Zash I know the feeling.
  456. Zash Hence the part about crying.
  457. Zash We don't have any PRECIS lib atm. We use libidn for stringprep and IDNA (2003). But libidn is deprecated and replaced by libidn2, which does *only* IDNA 2008. No stringprep or precis. Thus not an option.
  458. lovetox and just out of interest i looked up the docs of your application
  459. lovetox and indeed it uses the sane default
  460. lovetox but you can disable it
  461. lovetox --no-tr46 Disable TR46 processing
  462. Zash $ idn2 --no-tr46 <<< XMPP.net xmpp.net
  463. lovetox hm
  464. lovetox lovetox@lovetox:~$ idn2 --no-tr46 XMPP.net XMPP.net
  465. lovetox dont know what your "<<<" does
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  467. lovetox but nothing good :)
  468. Zash bash magic, dumps that string to stdin
  469. Zash heredoc without eof marker
  470. Zash pretty handy imo
  471. lovetox yeah but not if it ignores your options
  472. Zash $ idn2 --no-tr46 XMPP.net xmpp.net
  473. Zash Weird
  474. lovetox thats indeed weird
  475. lovetox i use version 2.2.0
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  477. Zash https://gitlab.com/libidn/libidn2/-/blob/master/NEWS#L25
  478. lovetox great :)
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