jdev - 2020-08-18


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  103. edhelas do you guys have some script to cleanup old presences in your clients ?
  104. jonas’ what does that mean?
  105. edhelas or is there some rule that exists to explain that
  106. jonas’ what are old presences?
  107. edhelas what is happening if you have a client that receives a presence and nothing else for days but stays connected
  108. jonas’ nothing?
  109. edhelas nothing else from the other jid
  110. edhelas let me rephrase that
  111. jonas’ why is that a problem?
  112. edhelas well after 5 days you can maybe think that somehow those presences are not valid anymore
  113. jonas’ how could that be?
  114. edhelas well, regarding by your questions I have a feeling that it's not a problem :p
  115. Ge0rG edhelas: it's only a problem if you have significant loss on your s2s links
  116. Holger It may well be a 24/7 (mobile/terminal/whatever) client that manages to keep the session alive, of course. But yes it may also be borked s2s. Who cares about presence anyway :-)
  117. jonas’ edhelas, as a client, you can’t do a lot, except cycling your session :)
  118. Ge0rG I care about presents!
  119. jonas’ a server can send type="probe" presence stanzas to refresh
  120. edhelas i'm just seing some old presences in the movim db after a few days, and i was wondering that, might be a bug
  121. Ge0rG I'm logged into my server for 9 days now
  122. Ge0rG which coincidentally is the uptime of the server
  123. edhelas this causes issues with https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0319.html
  124. Zash Related https://issues.prosody.im/904
  125. Zash jonas’: But then you likely get only the new presence. Stale presence where the unavailable got lost would not get an unavailable unless you count one for the entire account.
  126. Zash I'm not so sure about 319. I've seen almost flood amounts of presence where 319 is the only diff.
  127. jonas’ Zash, huh?
  128. jonas’ type="probe" SHOULD be answered with unavailable if the peer is offline
  129. jonas’ and an unavailable from the bare JID should count for all resources, in general, shouldn’t it?
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  133. Zash Yes
  134. Zash But if you have another resource online
  135. jonas’ ahhh
  136. Zash One that is different from what you think is online
  137. jonas’ and there is no "end" marker...
  138. Zash That's where it gets tricky and you'll need some smart tracking / caching magic
  139. jonas’ yeah
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  141. jonas’ I can come up with some, you can probably too.
  142. Zash Sure.
  143. Zash Doesn't strike me as an urgent enough problem tho, not when it'll have a memory cost.
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  146. eta wait clients can't send probes?
  147. jonas’ nope
  148. jonas’ https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6121#section-4.3
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  150. jonas’ Presence probes SHOULD NOT be sent by a client, because in general a client will not need to send them since the task of gathering presence from a user's contacts is managed by the user's server. However, if a user's client generates an outbound presence probe then the user's server SHOULD route the probe (if the contact is at another server) or process the probe (if the contact is at the same server) and MUST NOT use its receipt of the presence probe from a connected client as the sole cause for returning a stanza or stream error to the client.
  151. jonas’ well clients SHOULD NOT send probes
  152. eta so you can!
  153. eta I thought Dino did
  154. jonas’ why would you tho
  155. eta iunno
  156. Zash Perhaps of interest / relevance: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0310.html
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  158. Zash Tho still needs server-side caching/tracking of remote presence
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  194. Zash Altho, synthesizing an annotated unavailable bare-jid presence on (detected) s2s failure could work, and then you queue probes for when s2s comes back.
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  245. lovetox there are cases when you want to presence probe
  246. lovetox although not very relevant ones
  247. lovetox for example if you use privacy lists
  248. lovetox when you remove some blocking presence rule, then you have to presence probe
  249. lovetox i dont think a server does that for you
  250. lovetox it does though in blocking command xep which is nice
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