jdev - 2020-11-07

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  188. lovetox hm that avatar conversion XEP did not really think about clients that want to support vcards
  189. lovetox it seems the thought was, vcard is only used by legacy clients so they set their avatar with the vcard and we convert it
  190. Zash do we need a XEP about the thing Prosody does with vcard-temp → vcard4 conversion?
  191. lovetox but how do is set a avatar, if i want to support vcard and iam not a legacy client
  192. Zash Use XEP-0084?
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  195. lovetox yeah i just did
  196. lovetox and what happens is, i publish with 0084, afterwards publish my vcard
  197. lovetox ups my avatar is gone now
  198. lovetox no i have to now publish my avatar with 0084 and at the same time have to put it into the vcard
  199. Zash fantastic
  200. lovetox and all because of anonymous mucs
  201. lovetox we really should have gone the way, yeah anonymous means anonymous, so no vcard, no avatar, nothing
  202. lovetox thats what anonymous means
  203. Zash to be pedantic, we already got rid of anonymous mucs, what we have is semi-anonymous :)
  204. lovetox omg i want to deactivate that conversion
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  206. Zash With Prosody, you can. Tho you may get nice enough behavior by publishing vcard as vcard4 instead of vcard-temp
  207. lovetox why because there is no conversion yet?
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  210. lovetox actually i want to switch to vcard 4
  211. lovetox but we dont need conversion there really do we?
  212. lovetox a client that supports vcard 4 is not legacy, and can do his own avatar publishing
  213. Zash Interop with legacy clients
  214. lovetox yeah but for example i want to publish my vcard 4 with access=presence
  215. lovetox but my avatar with access=open
  216. Zash You can, if you talk PEP directly
  217. lovetox yes i know i can
  218. lovetox but what does the conversion mod then?
  219. Zash Nothing
  220. Zash The prosody legacy vcard compat module syntesizes a vcard-temp from vcard4+pep avatar on request.
  221. Zash And it respects the access modes on each of those, so if you configure the vcard with access=presence you get a vcard-temp with only the avatar.
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  224. lovetox ok thats nice
  225. Zash It is a problem that you have no way of knowing this tho
  226. lovetox and is there a conversion happening from vcard4 -> pep avatar?
  227. Zash There are older vcard compat modules that only re-publish the avatar but it's still vcard-temp natively
  228. Zash No
  229. lovetox ok thats good
  230. lovetox mental note, never implement something like that
  231. lovetox ok so that means
  232. lovetox i can use vcard4 and publish my vcard without avatar
  233. lovetox and the server will not delete my 0084 avatar
  234. lovetox thank god !
  235. Zash Hehe, part of the goal of this was to make vcard4 more attractive :)
  236. lovetox vcard4 is attractive enough only because of the fact that you can make the data private
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  238. Zash Yeah, that is nice
  239. lovetox ok thanks, means more work needs to be done now, but at least there is a sane path
  240. Zash Maybe the lack of privacy controls in vcard-temp is why so many clients these days only use it for teh avatar
  241. Link Mauve My issue with vcard4 is that it still isn’t fine-grained enough.
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  243. Link Mauve It’s either available to some entity or not.
  244. Zash I think that's an issue with PEP as a whole
  245. Link Mauve Yes.
  246. Zash And maybe PubSub
  247. Link Mauve goffi added an extension to fix that in his server, but he never wrote the spec.
  248. Zash oneSocialWeb had something like this as well
  249. lovetox Link Mauve, why there is whitelist or not?
  250. lovetox but to be honest, it seems a bit too complex for the normal user to manage who can see his vcard
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  253. Link Mauve lovetox, for instance I might want my email address shared with all my contacts, but my home phone number only with the family group, and the work phone number only with the work group.
  254. lovetox haha
  255. lovetox ok thats insane
  256. Zash If the prosody vcard/avatar conversion mod finds that the requester does not have access to the vcard4 node, it checks if they can read the nickname node and if so, adds that to the vcard-temp
  257. Link Mauve lovetox, instead of insane, I’d say mandatory for most usecases.
  258. lovetox you want per field access
  259. Link Mauve Yes, pretty much.
  260. lovetox i just think about the UI, and i would not even want to start it :)
  261. Link Mauve Try https://linkmauve.fr/xmpp-account-manager/build/en/ for a UI example.
  262. lovetox it shows a loading icon
  263. lovetox then nothing happens
  264. lovetox ah wait
  265. lovetox jid was wrong
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  270. lovetox but its probably not hard to do with vcard4
  271. lovetox you can add a custom attribute <roster-group> to the items
  272. lovetox and then the server has to do the rest
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  277. Zash IFF the server advertises support
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  283. Zash lovetox, seen this thread? https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-February/037073.html
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  285. lovetox hm xep 0292 does not use pep?
  286. lovetox i always thought the IQ is just a legacy access method
  287. lovetox but we use pubsub for vcard4
  288. lovetox i wondered about this a few times
  289. lovetox i just publish the vcard4 to pubsub
  290. lovetox i dont use the IQ
  291. Zash The iq was added for the MUC use case.
  292. Zash Except, it doesn't work.
  293. lovetox community consensus is that storage via IQ is more backward-compatible with XEP-0054, and that publish-subscribe is more appropriate only for event notifications.
  294. Zash vcard-temp only works in MUC because of an undocumented hack that all servers implement.
  295. lovetox i interpret this sentence as "You should not publish a vcard via pubsub, use IQ "
  296. Zash So you would need to do the same for vcard4 and/or PEP
  297. Zash The Prosody mod_vcard4 is just a very thin layer over the PEP get/set methods.
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  299. lovetox ok so thats what i thought, i just use pubsub, and it should work as expected
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  302. Zash It can act as a bandwidth optimization I suppose.
  303. Zash Or if you have a client that does not support PEP (are there even any?) then it's probably easier to use the vcard4 iq
  304. lovetox vcards are rarley changed, so there is no need to be efficient
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  306. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#self-iq-retrieval vs https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestall
  307. Zash So, yeah, not much of a difference
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