jdev - 2020-11-20

  1. mac has joined
  2. stpeter has joined
  3. raghavgururajan has left
  4. raghavgururajan has joined
  5. SouL has left
  6. mac has left
  7. stpeter has left
  8. NosoyHacker404 has left
  9. raghavgururajan has left
  10. raghavgururajan has joined
  11. NosoyHacker404 has joined
  12. raghavgururajan has left
  13. raghavgururajan has joined
  14. debacle has left
  15. marc has left
  16. marc has joined
  17. raghavgururajan has left
  18. stpeter has joined
  19. stpeter has left
  20. kikuchiyo has left
  21. mac has joined
  22. kikuchiyo has joined
  23. Vaulor has joined
  24. moparisthebest has left
  25. moparisthebest has joined
  26. adityaborikar has joined
  27. mac has left
  28. moparisthebest has left
  29. moparisthebest has joined
  30. mac has joined
  31. Yagizа has joined
  32. mac has left
  33. SouL has joined
  34. wurstsalat has left
  35. DebXWoody has joined
  36. paul has joined
  37. defanor Also regarding XEP-0373's "to": the XEP says that <crypt/> and <signcrypt/> "MUST have at least one", and <sign/> "MAY NOT contain one". Shouldn't it be reversed for <sign/> and <crypt/>? And "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119, I found it a bit confusing (assuming it's the same as "MAY").
  38. Beherit has left
  39. Beherit has joined
  40. wurstsalat has joined
  41. kikuchiyo has left
  42. kikuchiyo has joined
  43. kikuchiyo has left
  44. kikuchiyo has joined
  45. kikuchiyo has left
  46. kikuchiyo has joined
  47. kikuchiyo has left
  48. kikuchiyo has joined
  49. kikuchiyo has left
  50. kikuchiyo has joined
  51. Beherit has left
  52. Beherit has joined
  53. flow lovetox: that's something we pondered about too. my feeling is that the muc jid is sufficient. The interesting question is actually if you should add the real JIDs if available. To which I also tend to believe the answer is probably 'no'. Note that the 'to' is required to prevent Surreptitious Forward Attacks and I could imagine that adding just the MUCs address as 'to' is sufficient to prevent those. Implementation experience to confirming or refuting this would be very helpful
  54. flow lovetox: that's something we pondered about too. my feeling is that the muc jid is sufficient. The interesting question is actually if you should add the real JIDs if available. To which I also tend to believe the answer is probably 'no'. Note that the 'to' is required to prevent Surreptitious Forward Attacks and I could imagine that adding just the MUCs address as 'to' is sufficient to prevent those. Implementation experience confirming or refuting this would be very helpful
  55. flow defanor, yes it probably should be "MAY not" or something
  56. flow or simply OPTIONAL
  57. floretta has left
  58. flow defanor, looking into the the reversing
  59. adityaborikar has left
  60. marc has left
  61. Alex has joined
  62. adityaborikar has joined
  63. jubalh has joined
  64. marc has joined
  65. goffi has joined
  66. jubalh has left
  67. edhelas Would it be possible to extend search.jabber.network to also find Pubsub nodes there :) ?
  68. jonas’ edhelas, yes, but why
  69. edhelas Well it's mostly for Movim, but there is more and more persons that are creating nodes and publishing content
  70. edhelas https://upload.movim.eu/files/9d94237298995552fa13436420195fbca436dce7/jSbOO9tnqdctmZgMO6uwKJIjnduO0ILK85r1SLRE/Capture_d_%C3%A9cran_2020-11-20_10-29-04.png
  71. debacle has joined
  72. jonas’ edhelas, I need more to go by that
  73. jonas’ edhelas, I need more to go by than that
  74. jonas’ - how do I discover nodes which may be interesting for users? - how do I distinguish such nodes from random nodes used by whatever machine-to-machine communication? - how do I discover: avatar, title, description? - what kind of URI to use to make that useful? - what would be a good sorting criteria for such nodes? -> please answer all of that in an issue against https://github.com/horazont/muchopper/
  75. jonas’ thank you, edhelas :)
  76. edhelas 👍
  77. adityaborikar has left
  78. adityaborikar has joined
  79. moparisthebest has left
  80. moparisthebest has joined
  81. floretta has joined
  82. adityaborikar has left
  83. adityaborikar has joined
  84. larma has left
  85. larma has joined
  86. Neustradamus has left
  87. adityaborikar has left
  88. adityaborikar has joined
  89. DebXWoody has left
  90. adityaborikar has left
  91. adityaborikar has joined
  92. adityaborikar has left
  93. adityaborikar has joined
  94. test2 has joined
  95. test2 has left
  96. MattJ Big +1 to making more XMPP communities more easily discoverable. I think it should be clearly separated from the MUC search while there is basically only a single client able to access them... otherwise it will just cause more frustration for users
  97. MattJ For the same reason I don't think it would be a good idea to list MIX rooms there right now
  98. MattJ If either have a MUC bridge, the problem goes away of course, and if clients adopt either protocol more widely, the problem also goes away
  99. Ge0rG search.movim.network when? :D
  100. goffi MattJ: Ge0rG: SàT can access them too, I wonder why it's always ignored :(
  101. pulkomandy 2 clients is 100% better than 1 client!
  102. Ge0rG goffi: sorry :)
  103. goffi Ge0rG: no worries, it's symptomatic that I need to improve the communication around the project…
  104. Zash It's always marketing and network effect :/
  105. jonnj has left
  106. DebXWoody has joined
  107. Ge0rG goffi: what does it mean, you don't have a full time marketing person travelling around the world to convince people of your produ^H^HjecT?
  108. goffi I was planning to have one, but I've change my plans due to covid19
  109. goffi changed*
  110. MattJ goffi, well, I wasn't aware Movim and SàT interoperated when it came to communities... that's actually great to hear :)
  111. MattJ Correct me if I'm wrong, but trying to be helpful here... to me it feels like SàT is aiming to be a power user tool that can do everything, not really an IM client
  112. goffi MattJ: it's XEP-0277, just not put on PEP
  113. MattJ Also, I always see the screenshots on the website, but it's not really clear what it's showing
  114. Zash Anectdote: I remember having trouble installing SàT. Something with Python versions of things. I don't remember details.
  115. MattJ The text is small, most of the page is taken up by a picture of a road that doesn't really tell me anything useful
  116. goffi MattJ: SàT has several frontends, while the CLI one is for power user, the web or desktop ones are for general audience. I'm actually currently presenting it as a "familly social network"
  117. MattJ That's a good thing. But the website front page doesn't appear that way at all :)
  118. Zash MattJ: Mobile?
  119. MattJ Desktop
  120. goffi MattJ: "but it's not really clear what it's showing" ==> that's actually useful feedback, thanks. It's clearly one of the problem that the project was not clearly presented enough. I've worked on that in the current dev version and with the new website.
  121. goffi Zash: that's also useful feedback, the only issue is that I've never hear of it ;). Please report this to me at least via XMPP, or better create a ticket on https://bugs.goffi.org
  122. MattJ Based on what I know right now (which is probably incorrect), if you said my family should try SàT, I'd say that none of them really want a bug tracker in their IM client
  123. Zash goffi: Sorry. I can see about trying again and writing down my experiences.
  124. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/UOqLphW8zqAmLqkL/5115bfa2-eeb9-4654-8721-ce86c94a5058.png
  125. goffi it's not IM, it's a set of tools. The issue tracker is for needs of the project, that's probably confusing, but it's not what you'll use with your familly. But photo album, blogging, chat, and events are definitely something you would use.
  126. MattJ While we're on the topic, Movim has other complexity issues, it's hard to explain to someone that they need an XMPP account, let alone obtain an XMPP account and choose a (working) "pod"
  127. goffi Zash: :D
  128. MattJ I like both projects are pushing what XMPP can do, and I think that's a good thing... and I feel your pain when you both run into various issues along the way (pubsub nodes not having a type... etc.)
  129. MattJ Also I'm working on an XMPP project trying to reduce confusion by giving a bunch of clients the same name for users... SàT has so many sub-projects with different names I can never remember any of them :)
  130. MattJ Maybe the website should be something like a gallery of use-cases, with a screenshot for each
  131. MattJ "Here is SàT powering a family social network", "Here is SàT powering a bug tracker", "Here is our IM client"
  132. Martin Also the name is probably hard to spell for any non-french. :D
  133. goffi well that's trouble with standard, it's annoying but we can deal with it. The major issue is lack of interest (and I blame myself here for probably wrong decisions and communication). When I saw everybody super exited about a small video made by Framasoft showing a comment share between mastodon and and other activity pub thing (don't remember which one, peertube maybe), even reaching HN top page IIRC, when we've been doing that for years with SàT and Movim, I really will that we lack support from the community.
  134. Zash goffi, "XMPP" as a keyword on HN is cursed, avoid at all cost
  135. jubalh has joined
  136. goffi Martin: some English names are hard to spell for non English, the name was a kind of a protest against that. "Libervia" is probably more easy to use, it's currently user for the web frontend, but we've been talking a couple of time about using it for the whole project.
  137. Martin Libervia sounds better for me. :)
  138. jonnj has joined
  139. goffi Also the name "Cagou" (Desktop/mobile frontend) which is actually an endemic bird from New Caledonia, is unfortunate for anybody speaking portuguese
  140. Martin needs to create a project called "Eichhörnchen" or so and make all except Germans struggle to pronounce it. :D
  141. Martin Why? Is it the same problem as the Pajero Jeep?
  142. goffi it means in Portuguess "I have shitted" or something like that.
  143. goffi But it was a reference to this bird + the Kiwi from New Zealand, as this project uses the Kivy framework
  144. Wojtek has joined
  145. adityaborikar has left
  146. floretta has left
  147. adityaborikar has joined
  148. DebXWoody has left
  149. Guus has left
  150. Yagizа has left
  151. Guus has joined
  152. raghavgururajan has joined
  153. Guus has left
  154. Guus has joined
  155. lovetox has joined
  156. Guus has left
  157. Guus has joined
  158. Guus has left
  159. Guus has joined
  160. Guus has left
  161. Guus has joined
  162. Guus has left
  163. Guus has joined
  164. Guus has left
  165. Guus has joined
  166. Guus has left
  167. Guus has joined
  168. Guus has left
  169. Guus has joined
  170. Guus has left
  171. Guus has joined
  172. adrien has joined
  173. debacle has left
  174. mac has joined
  175. mac has left
  176. DebXWoody has joined
  177. test2 has joined
  178. Sam Whited has joined
  179. wurstsalat has left
  180. wurstsalat has joined
  181. debacle has joined
  182. lovetox has left
  183. marc has left
  184. marc has joined
  185. PM has joined
  186. marc has left
  187. PM Hi, I am using nodejs and logging into a XMPP service where I already have another user logged in, if i change the resource in the Nodejs client, how can i get all the same messages returned back to that client which the original client is getting, basically logging into 1 service as same user from diff locations sort of scenario
  188. Ge0rG PM: you need to enable XEP-0280 Carbons when logging in
  189. Ge0rG PM: you can also fetch old messages using XEP-0313 MAM
  190. marc has joined
  191. Ge0rG Carbons will send carbon copies of all messages to all logged in clients, MAM will give you a way to fetch messages that were delivered before you connected
  192. jubalh has left
  193. Beherit has left
  194. Beherit has joined
  195. PM ok looks like i am getting some data now, so let me see if i get stuck again
  196. Ge0rG PM: is this an instant messaging client or some technical m2m system?
  197. Ge0rG You might want to look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0443.html#im for IM
  198. PM has left
  199. Ge0rG 🤷
  200. test2 has left
  201. marc has left
  202. marc has joined
  203. floretta has joined
  204. raghavgururajan has left
  205. raghavgururajan has joined
  206. raghavgururajan has left
  207. lovetox has joined
  208. raghavgururajan has joined
  209. raghavgururajan has left
  210. raghavgururajan has joined
  211. raghavgururajan has left
  212. raghavgururajan has joined
  213. marc has left
  214. marc has joined
  215. marc has left
  216. raghavgururajan has left
  217. marc has joined
  218. marc has left
  219. marc has joined
  220. marc has left
  221. marc has joined
  222. marc has left
  223. marc has joined
  224. marc has left
  225. marc has joined
  226. raghavgururajan has joined
  227. marc has left
  228. marc has joined
  229. marc has left
  230. marc has joined
  231. marc has left
  232. marc has joined
  233. marc has left
  234. marc has joined
  235. marc has left
  236. marc has joined
  237. raghavgururajan has left
  238. marc has left
  239. marc has joined
  240. raghavgururajan has joined
  241. marc has left
  242. marc has joined
  243. marc has left
  244. marc has joined
  245. marc has left
  246. marc has joined
  247. marc has left
  248. marc has joined
  249. marc has left
  250. marc has joined
  251. marc has left
  252. marc has joined
  253. marc has left
  254. marc has joined
  255. marc has left
  256. lovetox has left
  257. marc has joined
  258. marc has left
  259. marc has joined
  260. marc has left
  261. marc has joined
  262. marc has left
  263. marc has joined
  264. marc has left
  265. marc has joined
  266. marc has left
  267. marc has joined
  268. marc has left
  269. marc has joined
  270. marc has left
  271. marc has joined
  272. marc has left
  273. marc has joined
  274. marc has left
  275. marc has joined
  276. marc has left
  277. marc has joined
  278. marc has left
  279. marc has joined
  280. marc has left
  281. floretta has left
  282. lovetox has joined
  283. test2 has joined
  284. marc has joined
  285. raghavgururajan has left
  286. marc has left
  287. raghavgururajan has joined
  288. marc has joined
  289. marc has left
  290. marc has joined
  291. marc has left
  292. marc has joined
  293. marc has left
  294. marc has joined
  295. marc has left
  296. marc has joined
  297. marc has left
  298. marc has joined
  299. marc has left
  300. marc has joined
  301. marc has left
  302. marc has joined
  303. marc has left
  304. marc has joined
  305. marc has left
  306. marc has joined
  307. marc has left
  308. Kev has left
  309. marc has joined
  310. marc has left
  311. marc has joined
  312. test2 has left
  313. sonny has left
  314. sonny has joined
  315. mac has joined
  316. mac has left
  317. lovetox has left
  318. goffi has left
  319. mac has joined
  320. serge90 has left
  321. mac has left
  322. lovetox has joined
  323. raghavgururajan has left
  324. lovetox_ has joined
  325. lovetox_ has left
  326. pulkomandy has left
  327. pulkomandy has joined
  328. pulkomandy has left
  329. pulkomandy has joined
  330. DebXWoody has left
  331. floretta has joined
  332. Alex has left
  333. raghavgururajan has joined
  334. Neustradamus has joined
  335. NosoyHacker404 has left
  336. lovetox_ has joined
  337. lovetox_ has left
  338. lovetox_ has joined
  339. lovetox_ has left
  340. NosoyHacker404 has joined
  341. jubalh has joined
  342. lovetox_ has joined
  343. alex-a-soto has left
  344. alex-a-soto has joined
  345. lovetox_ has left
  346. lovetox_ has joined
  347. lovetox_ has left
  348. Guus has left
  349. Guus has joined
  350. lovetox_ has joined
  351. lovetox_ has left
  352. lovetox_ has joined
  353. lovetox_ has left
  354. lovetox_ has joined
  355. lovetox_ has left
  356. lovetox_ has joined
  357. lovetox_ has left
  358. lovetox_ has joined
  359. lovetox_ has left
  360. lovetox_ has joined
  361. lovetox_ has left
  362. lovetox_ has joined
  363. lovetox_ has left
  364. paul has left
  365. Wojtek has left
  366. lovetox has left
  367. NosoyHacker404 has left
  368. NosoyHacker404 has joined