jdev - 2020-11-24


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  127. sonny

    hi there - what's the latest/greatest work on file sending with metadata? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0385.html ?

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  129. sonny

    (interop is not of concern ATM)

  130. jonas’

    sonny, the File Metadata ProtoXEPs currently in the pipeline

  131. jonas’

    wait until tomorrow for them to get numbers

  132. jonas’

    (though there is a chance > 0 that one of them is vetoed)

  133. jonas’

    see https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/file-metadata.html for a preview

  134. Ge0rG

    damn, I need to do something about them.

  135. jonas’

    Ge0rG, yes you do

  136. jonas’

    please don’t let those expire, either

  137. Zash

    A/B XEPs yeeeeeee

  138. jonas’

    sonny, s/tomorrow/today/, we’re on tuesday alreay

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  140. sonny

    thanks - I don't understand the premise of that XEP - it removes a dependency to add a new one (and fragmention) while still relying on said removed dependency for thumbnails

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  142. sonny

    I'll go with 0385 for now and see if I can contribute my thoughts to the list

  143. jonas’

    sonny, huh?

  144. jonas’

    it does not depend on jingle for thumbnails

  145. jonas’

    and '385 does more than just file sending, it also does markup

  146. sonny

    > A thumbnail element of the file, using the <thumbnail/> element defined in File Transfer Thumbnails (XEP-0264)

  147. sonny

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0264.html

  148. jonas’

    I do not see '264 depending on jingle.

  149. sonny

    my point is that it shows that depending on an external XEP isn't an issue - so I don't understand the premise of the XEP

  150. jonas’

    oh, it was about which specific XEPs to depend on

  151. sonny

    if the issue is that Jingle is too big why not taking what's there and splitting

  152. sonny

    without breaking changes / fragmentation

  153. jonas’

    it’s not possible to do it without breaking changes as it’s in jingle’s namespace

  154. jonas’

    the entire point is to remove it from jingle’s namespace

  155. jonas’

    to avoid tying it in with jingfle

  156. sonny

    ok I think the problem is that I don't understand how using a subset of the Jingle namespace may be problematic ?

  157. jonas’

    when jingle gets updated, an entire mess starts

  158. jonas’

    the jingle namespace changes

  159. jonas’

    soo ... what now? do we leave the namespace of <file/> on the old "version", creating confusion? do we bump it, rendering the element invisible to everyone and causing massive breakage? do we bump it in jingle itself, but not for the use in '385?

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  162. sonny

    splitting would prevent those issues from arising - XEPs have been split before

  163. jonas’

    no

  164. jonas’

    it is still in jingles namespace

  165. jonas’

    which would then be the confusion part

  166. jonas’

    or we move it into a different namespace -> exactly what file-metadata.html does

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  168. flow

    I am not sure how splitting would help here. the problem with the namespace would still exists. I guess the lesson here is that namespace should be minimally scoped

  169. jonas’

    that

  170. sonny

    file-metadata isn't a 1:1 with jingle so no

  171. flow

    whatever "namespaces should be minimally scoped" means in practice, there is probably a to fine-grained variant too

  172. sonny

    ok so the problem is sharing namespace between xeps?

  173. jonas’

    sonny, that is part of the problem

  174. jonas’

    flow, most certainly there is

  175. flow

    otoh I we hardly blame people that the <file/> element was designed under the jingle namespace: back then, it was probably not foreseable that other means of file transport would emerge

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  177. flow

    otoh I can hardly blame people that the <file/> element was designed under the jingle namespace: back then, it was probably not foreseable that other means of file transport would emerge

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  180. sonny

    how would you send File metadata element in a chat message? using reference type=data as well?

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  182. jonas’

    sonny, https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sfs.html

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  184. sonny

    thank you

  185. jonas’

    with encryption: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/esfs.html

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  318. jonas’

    sonny, file-metadata has been assigned XEP-0446 FYI

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