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09:30:04 sonny
hi there - what's the latest/greatest work on file sending with metadata? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0385.html ?
09:30:06 grasshopper
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09:33:10 sonny
(interop is not of concern ATM)
09:35:01 jonas’
sonny, the File Metadata ProtoXEPs currently in the pipeline
09:35:07 jonas’
wait until tomorrow for them to get numbers
09:35:21 jonas’
(though there is a chance > 0 that one of them is vetoed)
09:35:36 jonas’
see https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/file-metadata.html for a preview
09:36:19 Ge0rG
damn, I need to do something about them.
09:36:27 jonas’
Ge0rG, yes you do
09:36:32 jonas’
please don’t let those expire, either
09:36:44 Zash
A/B XEPs yeeeeeee
09:36:44 jonas’
sonny, s/tomorrow/today/, we’re on tuesday alreay
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09:43:09 sonny
thanks - I don't understand the premise of that XEP - it removes a dependency to add a new one (and fragmention) while still relying on said removed dependency for thumbnails
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09:46:25 sonny
I'll go with 0385 for now and see if I can contribute my thoughts to the list
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sonny, huh?
09:47:44 jonas’
it does not depend on jingle for thumbnails
09:48:12 jonas’
and '385 does more than just file sending, it also does markup
09:48:46 sonny
> A thumbnail element of the file, using the <thumbnail/> element defined in File Transfer Thumbnails (XEP-0264)
09:48:53 sonny
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0264.html
09:49:17 jonas’
I do not see '264 depending on jingle.
09:50:05 sonny
my point is that it shows that depending on an external XEP isn't an issue - so I don't understand the premise of the XEP
09:50:16 jonas’
oh, it was about which specific XEPs to depend on
09:50:30 sonny
if the issue is that Jingle is too big why not taking what's there and splitting
09:50:48 sonny
without breaking changes / fragmentation
09:51:22 jonas’
it’s not possible to do it without breaking changes as it’s in jingle’s namespace
09:51:31 jonas’
the entire point is to remove it from jingle’s namespace
09:51:38 jonas’
to avoid tying it in with jingfle
09:52:14 sonny
ok I think the problem is that I don't understand how using a subset of the Jingle namespace may be problematic ?
09:52:32 jonas’
when jingle gets updated, an entire mess starts
09:52:35 jonas’
the jingle namespace changes
09:53:10 jonas’
soo ... what now? do we leave the namespace of <file/> on the old "version", creating confusion? do we bump it, rendering the element invisible to everyone and causing massive breakage? do we bump it in jingle itself, but not for the use in '385?
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09:54:04 sonny
splitting would prevent those issues from arising - XEPs have been split before
09:55:02 jonas’
no
09:55:06 jonas’
it is still in jingles namespace
09:55:10 jonas’
which would then be the confusion part
09:55:19 jonas’
or we move it into a different namespace -> exactly what file-metadata.html does
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09:55:22 flow
I am not sure how splitting would help here. the problem with the namespace would still exists. I guess the lesson here is that namespace should be minimally scoped
09:55:29 jonas’
that
09:55:30 sonny
file-metadata isn't a 1:1 with jingle so no
09:55:52 flow
whatever "namespaces should be minimally scoped" means in practice, there is probably a to fine-grained variant too
09:55:54 sonny
ok so the problem is sharing namespace between xeps?
09:56:06 jonas’
sonny, that is part of the problem
09:56:14 jonas’
flow, most certainly there is
09:58:26 flow
otoh I we hardly blame people that the <file/> element was designed under the jingle namespace: back then, it was probably not foreseable that other means of file transport would emerge
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09:58:48 flow
otoh I can hardly blame people that the <file/> element was designed under the jingle namespace: back then, it was probably not foreseable that other means of file transport would emerge
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10:10:16 sonny
how would you send File metadata element in a chat message? using reference type=data as well?
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10:33:31 jonas’
sonny, https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sfs.html
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10:34:35 sonny
thank you
10:35:21 jonas’
with encryption: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/esfs.html
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18:11:32 jonas’
sonny, file-metadata has been assigned XEP-0446 FYI
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