jdev - 2020-12-09


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  24. Sam Whited Ah yah, fair enough so at least one thing uses it. I just don't understand why a table is something special or what the point of extracting the types out into that weird header bit is I guess
  25. Sam Whited The XEP doesn't really say what it's for. It gives search as an example and says "things might want multiple items" but I have no idea what that means.
  26. Sam Whited I am suprised to hear that Metronome uses 0055, I thought nothing used that one
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  30. Sam Whited ah crap, and I was still misunderstanding how these item things works, each one has every field in the header. That makes sense, but I hvae no idea how to fit it in with the API for the rest of the API. Oh well, that's a question for tomorrow I guess
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  57. lovetox Sam Whited, i would not "fit" it in with the rest of the API
  58. lovetox i think you should have 2 APIs
  59. lovetox one is a generic dataform API with which you should not be able to generate a reported form
  60. lovetox the second API is where you can *only* generate a reported form
  61. lovetox and on the other side, if a user receives a form, it should instantly evident for him if he uses the reported api to read it or the normal dataform api
  62. lovetox just dont try to fit this into one thing, its my opinion
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  106. Kev Sam Whited: M-Link and Swift both support 55.
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  141. Sam Whited lovetox: sort of, I don't mean I'm trying to cram it into the same API that handles normal forms, it will have to be a different thing, but it should at least fit in with the overall design of the package, if that makes sense, and I can't figure out a good way to handle items and making sure they all have all the required fields (I thought I had one, but I was wrong)
  142. Sam Whited Kev: thanks; sounds like I'll actually need to support this type of form then
  143. Zash API design is hard. Who knew?
  144. Sam Whited Indeed.
  145. Kev 55 is of limited use on open servers (e.g. jabber.org etc.), but very very useful on other types of deployment (which may or may not be on the Internet), e.g. a company server that lets you search for colleagues, or whatever.
  146. Zash Does anyone allow probing for presence, ignoring subscriptions in such a setting?
  147. Kev We don't, although it's a nice idea.
  148. Sam Whited I don't think we ever released it before HipChat went under, but we talked about that for a *long* time because presence caused one of our biggest performance problems
  149. Kev I don't follow on the link between those.
  150. Zash Scaling rosters is hard?
  151. Kev I don't think scaling the roster is hard per se, but the amount of (redundant) presence that is sent around is a significant amount of the runtime cost of the server. At least last I checked.
  152. Sam Whited Every person in the org was subscribed to every other person. If you had a large org you ended up getting thousands of presences every time you logged in. You only saw a handful of people at a time, but your connection was bottlenecked by presences for like 30 seconds just to log in. Not good.
  153. Kev And it completely blocks the stream on startup if you have too much.
  154. Kev Right, what Sam said.
  155. Sam Whited What Kev said :)
  156. Kev But I don't see the link between allowing probing without a subscription, and avoiding that.
  157. Kev At least, what I *understood* Zash to be asking was about being able to poll the presence of someone not on your roster, e.g. when you get them as a '55 result.
  158. Zash So you could limit subscriptions to your own team/department or something and <presence type=probe> on demand for some others.
  159. Zash Right
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  161. Sam Whited Right, we wanted to not have a subscription and you'd just probe for the 10 people in your recent conversations or whatever and anyone in the room you were currently looking at. Maybe also subscribe as an optimization using some hand wavey criteria such as "also in the marketing department" or "we're probing for this person a lot, just do a subscription"
  162. Kev Ah. So it's not that it makes roster presence less costly, just that you could restrict roster size.
  163. Sam Whited Yah, I don't think we ever hashed out how exactly it would work but the general idea was "query for recent conversations, chat rooms that are currently open, and results in the @mention auto complete menu) or whatever
  164. Sam Whited (or in a 55 result, if we had used that)
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