jdev - 2021-01-19

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  138. debacle

    In case somebody is need for funding: https://dapsi.ngi.eu/ Seems to close *tomorrow* :-( > easier for citizens to have any data which is stored with one service provider transmitted directly to another provider. I.e. XEP-0283, I assume?

  139. debacle

    In case somebody is in need for funding: https://dapsi.ngi.eu/ Seems to close *tomorrow* :-( > easier for citizens to have any data which is stored with one service provider transmitted directly to another provider. I.e. XEP-0283, I assume?

  140. debacle

    Probably not worth the trouble, they grant only up to 150000 EUR.

  141. debacle

    AFAIK nobody implemented "XEP-0283: Moved" so far?

  142. Zash

    I made a tool once, not sure where it went

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  144. pep.

    debacle: that would have been interesting indeed

  145. pep.

    283 is meh though

  146. debacle

    Zash Find it, grab the money and run.

  147. debacle

    pep. What is the way to go for account tranportability if not that XEP? I'm not aware of other stuff.

  148. Zash

    Grab the money and spend it looking for it?

  149. debacle

    Zash, sure, you get the money first and then have nine months of time to find it. Or rewrite it from scratch.

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  151. pep.

    debacle: there isn't

  152. Zash

    Anyone wanna co-op author a XEP on leaving tombstones after user deletion?

  153. pep.

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Sprints/2018_November_Dusseldorf/Pad if you grep for "moved", I don't remember many other traces of us trying to fix it. maybe Georg had a branch at some point

  154. pep.

    what was it that was discussed at summit again?

  155. jonas’

    Zash, what’s there to author? <gone/> and done?

  156. Zash

    jonas’, that, but more words I guess?

  157. jonas’

    Zash, need a ghostwriter?

  158. Zash


  159. Zash

    I was thinking of a (intended) best practices kinda spec. TL;DR: Return <gone/>, keep the marker for n time, prevent new accounts, respond to probes and presence with unsubscribe/s to ensure the global roster graph drops any authorizations.

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  161. Zash

    That got long for TL;DR 😕

  162. Zash

    s/^/<xep>/;s/$/<\/xep>/ done

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  165. Kev

    I think the best practice for a tombstone is to never allow reuse, on XMPP. There's currently no sane way to ensure that ACLs elsewhere (e.g. rosters, pubsub) don't still contain the JID long after it's been unused.

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  168. Zash

    Mmmm, MUC memberships was a thing I thought of as problematic

  169. jonas’

    maybe services should also periodically probe JIDs they have in ACLs

  170. jonas’

    if <gone/>, drop

  171. jonas’

    (don’t though if the ACL actually prevents something instead of allowing something :))

  172. Kev

    jonas': You say that, but finding your new JID is blocked from doing useful things only after you have gotten to the point that changing it is impractical is also badness.

  173. jonas’

    Kev, yes, but if <gone/> is in any way under the affected user’s control, it’s an easy way to get around negative ACL entries

  174. Kev

    Yes. Neither is a solution that works practically.

  175. Kev

    See previous "you can't reuse JIDs after they're deleted" :)

  176. jonas’

    and you can’t really enforce that the tombstone will exist forever, domains are reused.

  177. jonas’

    servers are reinstalled.

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  179. Kev

    I thought we were talking about a best practice?

  180. jonas’

    I’ve mentally moved on to resilience :)

  181. Zash


  182. Kev

    We can't stop people doing broken things, but we can definitely give good advice - and teling people that JID reuse is practical is bad advice.

  183. Zash

    Having memberships expire after n time might also help

  184. jonas’

    Kev, exactly, hence I am always also

  185. jonas’

    Kev, exactly, hence I am always *also* thinking into what can one locally do to avoid the impact by people doing broken things

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  191. Kev

    Ah, from that end. Yes.

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  193. Ge0rG

    would be a good time to introduce an account-side list of all places the user is registered with

  194. Zash

    MIX, PAM, etc?

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  206. flow

    Ge0rG> would be a good time to introduce an account-side list of all places the user is registered with which will become inconsistent in 3. 2. 1.

  207. Ge0rG

    flow: well, it should be a superset of those places, maintained by the server, and self-healing

  208. Zash

    Global distributed self-healing graph!!!!

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  210. flow

    obviously it is sensible that the user's service knows which things the user is "subscribed" to, hence MIX/PAM do that. but I doubt that this is the answer to the problem discussed above

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