jdev - 2021-01-25

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11:06:04 jubalh not sure whether this is the right channel. bust stumbled upon this this morning when subscribing to gnome reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/l4ku3r/gnome_and_matrix/
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11:06:24 jubalh https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/l4ku3r/gnome_and_matrix/gkp29px sounds like they have an quite outdated idea about XMPP
11:06:33 jonas’ as everyone has
11:13:12 jubalh Recently talked with some CCC people and was surprised that it is also true for them
11:13:24 jonas’ I’m not
11:13:31 jonas’ we don’t have any marketing going on
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11:22:40 Ge0rG Yeah, everybody associates XMPP with Pidgin and Adium, code bases from a decade ago.
11:22:58 Ge0rG And the lack of all the useful modern features like HTTP Upload, Carbons (WTF man!) and MAM
11:23:08 mathieui made a passive-agressive response without insults
11:23:10 jonas’ s/, code bases/, multi-protocol code bases/
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11:43:40 jubalh has there ever been written in that regard? to correct that wrong impression? I would like to send it to my CCC friends
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11:44:11 jonas’ > we don’t have any marketing going on
11:44:24 jonas’ jubalh, but maybe you could link the reply by mathieui in that thread
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12:03:58 Ge0rG also writing something on whatever personal venue you have and link to that :D
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12:13:57 mathieui also on that thread it might be useful to comment with the telepathy/empathy history, but I don’t have a good view on that
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20:08:08 lovetox so how to detect if a jid is a contact or a muc
20:08:11 lovetox seems complicated
20:08:36 lovetox specially with servers like dino where its not even hosted on a subdomain
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20:10:57 lovetox i could only treat jids as muc that have a successful disco info
20:11:44 lovetox and everything else must be a contact?
20:11:52 lovetox depends probably on the error i get back
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21:24:06 pep. chat@dino.im properly sends a MUC identity, nothing special about it
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21:25:31 pep. Unless you were planning to differentiate based on the form of the JID which is certainly meh :x
21:29:36 lovetox of course it does
21:30:18 lovetox but what if you query something that does not exist
21:30:50 lovetox if i query only the domain and its a muc service only
21:31:01 lovetox i know the jid is a groupchat, one that does not yet exist
21:31:07 lovetox or was deleted maybe
21:31:15 lovetox i cant do this on dino.im
21:31:19 lovetox it could also be a user
21:31:31 lovetox which normally also yields a disco info error if the user is not in your roster
21:32:41 lovetox its a bit weird that in xmpp there is no way to determine if a jid is actually a account
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21:33:39 lovetox you need to disco something, and if it yields errors, its like "Ok an error, lets ignore that and treat it like its a user"
21:34:49 Zash item-not-found might point to MUC
21:35:06 Zash disco#info on the hostpart could provide hints too
21:36:10 Sam Whited Oh boy, any time someone says "hints" instead of "you do a simple query or look at the format of something and instantly know without a doubt" I get nervous.
21:38:21 Zash Yes, it's a mess, partly because we try to make it hard tell if users exist or not
21:38:41 lovetox i would say only because of that
21:38:48 lovetox and im really not sure its worth it
21:39:09 Sam Whited Oh? I've never heard that and didn't realize that was a reason for not having an "are you a MUC?" query
21:39:10 Zash I forget if chat@dino.im is illegal or not
21:39:12 Sam Whited That doesn't make sense to me
21:39:50 Zash Sam Whited, if that's the question then it's easy.
21:39:59 Zash disco#info and look for the muc feature
21:40:03 lovetox disco info is the are you a muc query
21:40:39 Sam Whited I thought that was the question?
21:41:23 Zash disco#info non-existant@someserver. you get an error. what kind of entitiy is it?
21:41:36 lovetox yeah it was, that mean everything that is not a muc, is a user
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21:41:47 lovetox at least in xmpp you have to treat it that way
21:42:07 Sam Whited Ah right, that part still seems like a problem.
21:42:35 lovetox A User Zash, everything that does not answer with its identity is a user
21:43:05 lovetox at least i think thats the best way
21:45:21 pep. lovetox, “everything that is not a muc, is a user” except when we start putting other things in the roster? :P
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22:58:42 Zash Ge0rG: https://keep.imfreedom.org/pidgin/pidgin/rev/e32ab786a04f > And the lack of all the useful modern features like HTTP Upload, Carbons (WTF man!) and MAM
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