jdev - 2021-03-17

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  183. stpeter Hey wow, I got a message in Slack today that they finally sort of support federation (well, at least "federation" within Slack itself). Welcome to the party!
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  185. Kev I’m not sure federating with your own server is that much of an achievement 😂
  186. Kev Although, having implemented dialback, maybe I shouldn’t be so glib.
  187. Ge0rG Well, logging in with multiple identities was a huge feat as well.
  188. edhelas stpeter they call it l2l, localhost2localhost
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  190. moparisthebest more like lol amirite?
  191. wurstsalat I just spilled my coffee
  192. Zash chuckles
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  364. selurvedu Hello folks, I'm trying to understand how the fallback plaintext <body> works in OMEMO. XEP-0384 v0.3.0 [0] says "If it [decryption] succeeds, the decrypted contents are treated as the <body> of the received message." v0.4.0 and up don't have any mentions of <body> and XEP-420 says "Since a chat message encrypted with SCE MUST NOT contain a <body/> element, it is not eligible for MAM message storage". Does that mean it is not possible to add a fallback text for a message when using omemo:1 ? [0]: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0384-0.3.0.html [1]: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0384-0.4.0.html
  365. lovetox fallback body is not optimal
  366. lovetox consider something like https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0380.html
  367. lovetox add this to make other clients aware that this is a encrypted message and what it was encrypted with
  368. lovetox then the client can choose itself how it makes the user aware
  369. selurvedu lovetox, > Entities SHOULD include a non-encrypted body as possible, since older clients not supporting this protocol might otherwise ignore messages sent with an unknown encryption, making both the sender frustrated that their message did not get an answer, and the recipient frustrated that they never saw any message.
  370. selurvedu from XEP-0380
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  372. lovetox yes .. if you care about these super old clients
  373. lovetox i guess you have to add it
  374. lovetox but i agree i also dont understand why SCE does not allow a body element
  375. lovetox the reason is not mentioned in the xep
  376. Zash For OMEMO you probably do want a fallback, since users likely would rather know they got messages that they couldn't decrypt than them just silently going into the void.
  377. selurvedu Yeah, hence my question
  378. lovetox Zash, most clients support eme
  379. lovetox so it would not go into the void
  380. Zash Do they?
  381. lovetox yes
  382. Zash I wasn't aware of any at all
  383. lovetox how would you tell the difference?! its not like you see a message and say, hey thats eme working
  384. selurvedu Dino states "status partial" , "Only for outgoing messages"
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  386. Zash I've not heard anyone mention implementing it
  387. lovetox selurvedu, because dino supports all encryption mechanisms
  388. lovetox if you can detect all encryptions you dont need to depend on eme
  389. lovetox eme is for clients that dont want to support encryption, but still want to know when a encrypted message arrives
  390. lovetox Zash, Gajim and C for example
  391. lovetox and im sure many more
  392. Zash Cool, good to know.
  393. lovetox its als way user friendly, if i can show the user a message in his language
  394. lovetox than some fallback thing another client developer decides is good
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  396. lovetox but im not arguing eme is more compatible than a fallback message
  397. lovetox obviously you get all clients with a fallback message
  398. Zash FWIW Prosody treats it as a hint that the message is important
  399. lovetox but i find the example rather academic
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  401. lovetox if a user wants encryption
  402. lovetox he usually wants it on all his devices
  403. selurvedu lovetox, well, a user may be unaware that their counterpart uses an ancient client
  404. lovetox and we are also in the situation that there are clients that support encryption on all platforms
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  406. lovetox selurvedu, you can only encrypt to someone if he doesnt use an ancient client
  407. lovetox so this scenario is only for users, who use on one device something with encryption
  408. lovetox but choose on another device to use a ancient client
  409. lovetox thats why i said i consider this case as academic
  410. lovetox im sure it happens somewhere
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  412. lovetox either way, im also interested why 420 does not allow a body
  413. selurvedu lovetox, okay, however, how can a user of an ancient client tell that somebody's trying to contact them if there's no fallback body and eme is not supported?
  414. lovetox he can’t
  415. Zash Wanna have a discussion about just how far back backwards compatibility should go? 🙂
  416. selurvedu e.g. a user installed Conversations or Dino, new omemo keys got generated and published, then the user removed the client and switched back to something they're used to
  417. selurvedu Zash, hah, why not? :)
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  419. selurvedu I'm asking because a person from my roster did just that ^
  420. selurvedu So I was trying to write with omemo enabled
  421. Zash Heh, I think it's one of the recurring topics in XMPP land.
  422. lovetox this reminds me, a destroy my omemo presence should be a button in a client
  423. selurvedu Thanks to fallback body they noticed my attempts
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