jdev - 2021-05-20

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  146. Sam If anyone is still interested in the old IRC channels, I created #xmpp on irc.libera.chat (the new network by most of the old Freenode maintainers).
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  166. pulkomandy hi, I'm thinking about adding something to my xmpp client to notify the user when their name is mentionned in a MUC. I found xep-0372 (I was directed there from 0452, which is related but different), but is that really used? or should I just grep the messages content for a match with the current nickname? Or is there something else in use?
  167. flow pulkomandy, I guess doing both is sensible
  168. flow searching the message for the users nick is a technique used by many IRC clients, and highlighting those messages is a popular feature (at least that is my impression)
  169. pulkomandy yes, that's how it's done in IRC. But some other chat systems have more specific requirements (like using @nickname or similar)
  170. jonas’ pulkomandy, 372 is barely used
  171. jonas’ some clients do it, but by far not all
  172. pulkomandy I guess I can go with something IRC-style (it works for me since currently I use biboumi to talk to IRC people), but then I have many questions on how to detect a nickname (I guess it should be delimited by whitespace and maybe ':' and ',' suffix should be allowed, but I don't like guessing at these things)
  173. pep. Making progress on something like 372 would be good (proper wire format!!1!). Matching nicknames atm is mostly in the realm of regexp in <body/> indeed (and failing at it some of the time)
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  175. Martin True, I get pinged everytime Georg cites some Martin Something on twitter.
  176. Ge0rG unfollows Martin Something
  177. jonas’ Sonneborn?
  178. Ge0rG I'm not aware of citing *that* Martin
  179. Kev I think we need to somehow make 372 support groups of people (e.g. @everyone) as well. It’s all a bit complicated.
  180. jonas’ hats!
  181. Ge0rG Maybe it was @marcan42, aka Hector Martin?
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  183. pep. (Note that I wasn't explicitely saying I want 372, I'd just like some way of mentioning people that doesn't require searching in <body/> for hard-to-define strings)
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  186. Martin Ge0rG: Indeed!
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  190. mathieui Kev, I kind of think stuff like @everyone & other meta-actions could fit a XEP but maybe are more of a fit for stuff like modernxmpp (e.g. do we want things like @admins, etc, and in the end it boils down to the URIs inside)
  191. Kev Surely if you want it to interop you need to have the mechanism standardised?
  192. Zash That's ... why we're here :)
  193. mathieui Yes, but how much depends on the platform? e.g. could there be different meta-references for MIX and MUC, etc
  194. Kev Although a MUC service could detect “@everyone” in the body, and have the MUC fan-out include a reference for each person there when it sends to them, it wouldn’t allow clients to do the markup sensibly.
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  197. pulkomandy some IM systems also have a distinction of @everyone vs @all with the latter only notifying people who are not offline or away or some other kind of inactive
  198. pulkomandy which means the client must know what kind of notification it is
  199. pulkomandy (or maybe it is @here vs @all, but anyway you get the idea)
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  201. mathieui to be fair having @everyone or @all on public channels is more often than not a bother and a low-effort way to generate noise
  202. Zash You'd probably not enable such things in public channels
  203. Zash Or have it opt-in somehow
  204. Zash Could do something with the MUC registration or some MIX settings node?
  205. mathieui extending MUC at this point always feels like walking on a lego barefoot
  206. pulkomandy maybe this @all thing is a misfeature and it shouldn't be done at all?
  207. Martin @mods would be cool to not have look them up and ping them manually if a spammer appears.
  208. Zash Might have uses, but needs to be weighted against the abuse potential
  209. Martin @mods would be cool to not have to look them up and ping them manually if a spammer appears.
  210. Zash Martin: +1
  211. Zash @<hat-name>
  212. pep. “Kev> Although a MUC service could detect “@everyone” in the body, and have the MUC fan-out include a reference for each person there when it sends to them, it wouldn’t allow clients to do the markup sensibly.” < I'd be careful here and include the original mention so that I can have my client ignore "@everyone" if I want it to
  213. pep. as in, without having to parse body, still
  214. Zash Converse.js extracts out @Nickname into additional wire protocol and sends it without '@' in the <body>
  215. pep. pulkomandy, I agree I think
  216. Zash This is the way.
  217. pep. Zash, agreed
  218. pep. That was some carefully planned lobbying effort (half joking)
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  220. Kev It’s horrid on public channels, and jolly useful on private ones.
  221. mathieui agreed
  222. Kev I’d love to have this on our work deployment.
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