jdev - 2021-05-20

  1. Sam

    If anyone is still interested in the old IRC channels, I created #xmpp on irc.libera.chat (the new network by most of the old Freenode maintainers).

  2. pulkomandy

    hi, I'm thinking about adding something to my xmpp client to notify the user when their name is mentionned in a MUC. I found xep-0372 (I was directed there from 0452, which is related but different), but is that really used? or should I just grep the messages content for a match with the current nickname? Or is there something else in use?

  3. flow

    pulkomandy, I guess doing both is sensible

  4. flow

    searching the message for the users nick is a technique used by many IRC clients, and highlighting those messages is a popular feature (at least that is my impression)

  5. pulkomandy

    yes, that's how it's done in IRC. But some other chat systems have more specific requirements (like using @nickname or similar)

  6. jonas’

    pulkomandy, 372 is barely used

  7. jonas’

    some clients do it, but by far not all

  8. pulkomandy

    I guess I can go with something IRC-style (it works for me since currently I use biboumi to talk to IRC people), but then I have many questions on how to detect a nickname (I guess it should be delimited by whitespace and maybe ':' and ',' suffix should be allowed, but I don't like guessing at these things)

  9. pep.

    Making progress on something like 372 would be good (proper wire format!!1!). Matching nicknames atm is mostly in the realm of regexp in <body/> indeed (and failing at it some of the time)

  10. Martin

    True, I get pinged everytime Georg cites some Martin Something on twitter.

  11. Ge0rG unfollows Martin Something

  12. jonas’

    Sonneborn?

  13. Ge0rG

    I'm not aware of citing *that* Martin

  14. Kev

    I think we need to somehow make 372 support groups of people (e.g. @everyone) as well. It’s all a bit complicated.

  15. jonas’

    hats!

  16. Ge0rG

    Maybe it was @marcan42, aka Hector Martin?

  17. pep.

    (Note that I wasn't explicitely saying I want 372, I'd just like some way of mentioning people that doesn't require searching in <body/> for hard-to-define strings)

  18. Martin

    Ge0rG: Indeed!

  19. mathieui

    Kev, I kind of think stuff like @everyone & other meta-actions could fit a XEP but maybe are more of a fit for stuff like modernxmpp (e.g. do we want things like @admins, etc, and in the end it boils down to the URIs inside)

  20. Kev

    Surely if you want it to interop you need to have the mechanism standardised?

  21. Zash

    That's ... why we're here :)

  22. mathieui

    Yes, but how much depends on the platform? e.g. could there be different meta-references for MIX and MUC, etc

  23. Kev

    Although a MUC service could detect “@everyone” in the body, and have the MUC fan-out include a reference for each person there when it sends to them, it wouldn’t allow clients to do the markup sensibly.

  24. pulkomandy

    some IM systems also have a distinction of @everyone vs @all with the latter only notifying people who are not offline or away or some other kind of inactive

  25. pulkomandy

    which means the client must know what kind of notification it is

  26. pulkomandy

    (or maybe it is @here vs @all, but anyway you get the idea)

  27. mathieui

    to be fair having @everyone or @all on public channels is more often than not a bother and a low-effort way to generate noise

  28. Zash

    You'd probably not enable such things in public channels

  29. Zash

    Or have it opt-in somehow

  30. Zash

    Could do something with the MUC registration or some MIX settings node?

  31. mathieui

    extending MUC at this point always feels like walking on a lego barefoot

  32. pulkomandy

    maybe this @all thing is a misfeature and it shouldn't be done at all?

  33. Martin

    @mods would be cool to not have look them up and ping them manually if a spammer appears. ✎

  34. Zash

    Might have uses, but needs to be weighted against the abuse potential

  35. Martin

    @mods would be cool to not have to look them up and ping them manually if a spammer appears. ✏

  36. Zash

    Martin: +1

  37. Zash

    @<hat-name>

  38. pep.

    “Kev> Although a MUC service could detect “@everyone” in the body, and have the MUC fan-out include a reference for each person there when it sends to them, it wouldn’t allow clients to do the markup sensibly.” < I'd be careful here and include the original mention so that I can have my client ignore "@everyone" if I want it to

  39. pep.

    as in, without having to parse body, still

  40. Zash

    Converse.js extracts out @Nickname into additional wire protocol and sends it without '@' in the <body>

  41. pep.

    pulkomandy, I agree I think

  42. Zash

    This is the way.

  43. pep.

    Zash, agreed

  44. pep.

    That was some carefully planned lobbying effort (half joking)

  45. Kev

    It’s horrid on public channels, and jolly useful on private ones.

  46. mathieui

    agreed

  47. Kev

    I’d love to have this on our work deployment.