jdev - 2021-05-21

We really do have a serious messaging problem. I'm trying to update the Go help page to list an XMPP room alongside the IRC channel. It makes sense to say "Get help on the official IRC channel" but for XMPP what do I even write? "On an XMPP MUC", "On an XMPP channel", on a "Jabber chat room", etc.

I mean, some of those are obviously bad, we just have a combinatorics problem from the number of available (and all widely used) terms

"Channel" says https://docs.modernxmpp.org/terminology/

Get help on our official channel xmpp:channel@domain ?

"Get live help and discussion on the XMPP channel" sounds okay I guess. Now they search for "XMPP" and only get protocol stuff.

(join using an XMPP client of your choice) ?

My attempts to re-establish "Jabber" as a first-class term unfortunately failed.

Reclaim the Jabber!

Wouldn't that require to free Jabber first from Cisco?

I really hate having to write "XMPP/Jabber" to prevent people from getting confused by the mixed-use of the terms, we really need something specific to the public network

Anyways, I don't know what to do about it, but just writing some very simple copy is hard.

Probably never getting merged since there are only ever like 8 people online, but you never know: https://github.com/golang/website/pull/54

Probably only 8 people because it's not listed on the website!

Sure, but if they listed every tiny random chat the site would be rather huge :) I'm sure there are telegram and briar and wire and delta chat and, etc. chats with a handful of users too

A/B test!

Sam: Zimpy!

I vote for "join our chat" and imply that XMPP is the only and obvious choice for that and why would you use another protocol anyway?

THIS

idk why people still say jabber, nobody know what jabber is. Just double down on XMPP

Opposite experience.

"What? Oh, Jabber? Yeah we used that with Pidgin 10 years ago. It was great!"

What Zash said

Not sure we ever discussed the Jabber vs. XMPP terms before?

jabber is trademark anyway no? So just go with xmpp

Holger, no, never

Holger: definitely not every other day :)

Glad it's finally brought up by someone.

qrpnxz: The XSF has permission to use the Jabber trademark.

and to sublicense it

to whom does the xsf sublicense

Bruno the Jabber™ Bear for example

https://yaxim.org/bruno/ 🙂

I believe there's a list somewhere

qrpnxz: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/jabber-trademark/approved-applications

alright, a limited list. I'm sure it's quite rare to only want to talk about the apps in this list. So XMPP wins

Sounds good, you should send an SMTP message to the board to let them know

I'm being a jerk, but the point is that no normal person will remember or want to say that :)

xd funny way to put it. But why would i do that when we are talking about how we are gonna use it, and in particular in the go website.

wait Jabberfr is not in that list? Are they using the name ilegally then? :o

what? XMPP? but IRC is no problem? Unconvinced

All it really takes is a huge marketing budget, which we don't have.

IRC isn't really used anymore in a significant way except in nerd communities, so yes, that seems consistent

Sam, let me tell you about how XMPP is used

kek fair enough

moparisthebest: right, that's the point

That's why it would be nice to have another word for the public network.

I agree jabber is a better name, but i'm not gonna write that anywhere if it only refers to this limited list of software that i've never heard of

oh we are having the jabber vs xmpp discussion again ? lol

in that case, just say snikket

jabber is owned by cisco, the end

😎️pwnd

I legit like the idea of snikket, but then it looks like you can only use it on Android and nowhere else

no? android and ios are the official ones, but it works with any

android is the only one listed on the website

which is what people will find

It's early days, iOS client is in beta

right, so I feel like the name isn't usable yet

just for searchability and setup

are you targetting the general public ?

because they have androids

For all intents and purposes, assume that it's a 50/50 split between Android and iOS

moparisthebest: not so much in the U.S., iphone is still king here

Here it's like 10%, but still produces like 50% of the app sales.

Source: Vaguely recalled what someone said at a local mobile game company.

> According to StatCounter, in 2020, Android owned 71.93% of the worldwide mobile operating system market share while iOS took 27.47%.

Varies a lot by country from what I've heard

> Opposite experience. > "What? Oh, Jabber? Yeah we used that with Pidgin 10 years ago. It was great!" Opposite for me. Jabber? We use Cisco Jabber at work, I hate it!

And nothing in-between

https://www.mobileapps.com/blog/android-vs-ios-market-share roughly looks like the whole world vastly prefers android except the usa which is backwards with an even split :/

> And nothing in-between There's only extremes on the internetz.

But I think the term jabber is burned as it is owned by cisco. But I agree xmpp is not a good term for user facing solutions.