jdev - 2021-05-21

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  150. Sam We really do have a serious messaging problem. I'm trying to update the Go help page to list an XMPP room alongside the IRC channel. It makes sense to say "Get help on the official IRC channel" but for XMPP what do I even write? "On an XMPP MUC", "On an XMPP channel", on a "Jabber chat room", etc.
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  153. Sam I mean, some of those are obviously bad, we just have a combinatorics problem from the number of available (and all widely used) terms
  154. Zash "Channel" says https://docs.modernxmpp.org/terminology/
  155. wurstsalat Get help on our official channel xmpp:channel@domain ?
  156. Sam "Get live help and discussion on the XMPP channel" sounds okay I guess. Now they search for "XMPP" and only get protocol stuff.
  157. wurstsalat (join using an XMPP client of your choice) ?
  158. Ge0rG My attempts to re-establish "Jabber" as a first-class term unfortunately failed.
  159. Zash Reclaim the Jabber!
  160. Martin Wouldn't that require to free Jabber first from Cisco?
  161. Sam I really hate having to write "XMPP/Jabber" to prevent people from getting confused by the mixed-use of the terms, we really need something specific to the public network
  162. Sam Anyways, I don't know what to do about it, but just writing some very simple copy is hard.
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  164. Sam Probably never getting merged since there are only ever like 8 people online, but you never know: https://github.com/golang/website/pull/54
  165. Zash Probably only 8 people because it's not listed on the website!
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  167. Sam Sure, but if they listed every tiny random chat the site would be rather huge :) I'm sure there are telegram and briar and wire and delta chat and, etc. chats with a handful of users too
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  172. Zash A/B test!
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  175. Ge0rG Sam: Zimpy!
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  188. pulkomandy I vote for "join our chat" and imply that XMPP is the only and obvious choice for that and why would you use another protocol anyway?
  189. Zash THIS
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  214. qrpnxz idk why people still say jabber, nobody know what jabber is. Just double down on XMPP
  215. Zash Opposite experience.
  216. Zash "What? Oh, Jabber? Yeah we used that with Pidgin 10 years ago. It was great!"
  217. Sam What Zash said
  218. Holger Not sure we ever discussed the Jabber vs. XMPP terms before?
  219. qrpnxz jabber is trademark anyway no? So just go with xmpp
  220. Zash Holger, no, never
  221. Sam Holger: definitely not every other day :)
  222. Holger Glad it's finally brought up by someone.
  223. Zash qrpnxz: The XSF has permission to use the Jabber trademark.
  224. Zash and to sublicense it
  225. qrpnxz to whom does the xsf sublicense
  226. Zash Bruno the Jabber™ Bear for example
  227. Zash https://yaxim.org/bruno/ 🙂
  228. Zash I believe there's a list somewhere
  229. Sam qrpnxz: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/jabber-trademark/approved-applications
  230. qrpnxz alright, a limited list. I'm sure it's quite rare to only want to talk about the apps in this list. So XMPP wins
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  232. Sam Sounds good, you should send an SMTP message to the board to let them know
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  234. Sam I'm being a jerk, but the point is that no normal person will remember or want to say that :)
  235. qrpnxz xd funny way to put it. But why would i do that when we are talking about how we are gonna use it, and in particular in the go website.
  236. pulkomandy wait Jabberfr is not in that list? Are they using the name ilegally then? :o
  237. qrpnxz what? XMPP? but IRC is no problem? Unconvinced
  238. Zash All it really takes is a huge marketing budget, which we don't have.
  239. Sam IRC isn't really used anymore in a significant way except in nerd communities, so yes, that seems consistent
  240. moparisthebest Sam, let me tell you about how XMPP is used
  241. qrpnxz kek fair enough
  242. Sam moparisthebest: right, that's the point
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  244. Sam That's why it would be nice to have another word for the public network.
  245. qrpnxz I agree jabber is a better name, but i'm not gonna write that anywhere if it only refers to this limited list of software that i've never heard of
  246. moparisthebest oh we are having the jabber vs xmpp discussion again ? lol
  247. moparisthebest in that case, just say snikket
  248. moparisthebest jabber is owned by cisco, the end
  249. qrpnxz 😎️pwnd
  250. Sam I legit like the idea of snikket, but then it looks like you can only use it on Android and nowhere else
  251. moparisthebest no? android and ios are the official ones, but it works with any
  252. Sam android is the only one listed on the website
  253. Sam which is what people will find
  254. Zash It's early days, iOS client is in beta
  255. Sam right, so I feel like the name isn't usable yet
  256. Sam just for searchability and setup
  257. moparisthebest are you targetting the general public ?
  258. moparisthebest because they have androids
  259. Zash For all intents and purposes, assume that it's a 50/50 split between Android and iOS
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  262. Sam moparisthebest: not so much in the U.S., iphone is still king here
  263. Zash Here it's like 10%, but still produces like 50% of the app sales.
  264. Zash Source: Vaguely recalled what someone said at a local mobile game company.
  265. moparisthebest > According to StatCounter, in 2020, Android owned 71.93% of the worldwide mobile operating system market share while iOS took 27.47%.
  266. Zash Varies a lot by country from what I've heard
  267. Martin > Opposite experience. > "What? Oh, Jabber? Yeah we used that with Pidgin 10 years ago. It was great!" Opposite for me. Jabber? We use Cisco Jabber at work, I hate it!
  268. Zash And nothing in-between
  269. moparisthebest https://www.mobileapps.com/blog/android-vs-ios-market-share roughly looks like the whole world vastly prefers android except the usa which is backwards with an even split :/
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  271. Martin > And nothing in-between There's only extremes on the internetz.
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  273. Martin But I think the term jabber is burned as it is owned by cisco. But I agree xmpp is not a good term for user facing solutions.
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