jdev - 2021-05-21

  1. Sam

    We really do have a serious messaging problem. I'm trying to update the Go help page to list an XMPP room alongside the IRC channel. It makes sense to say "Get help on the official IRC channel" but for XMPP what do I even write? "On an XMPP MUC", "On an XMPP channel", on a "Jabber chat room", etc.

  2. Sam

    I mean, some of those are obviously bad, we just have a combinatorics problem from the number of available (and all widely used) terms

  3. Zash

    "Channel" says https://docs.modernxmpp.org/terminology/

  4. wurstsalat

    Get help on our official channel xmpp:channel@domain ?

  5. Sam

    "Get live help and discussion on the XMPP channel" sounds okay I guess. Now they search for "XMPP" and only get protocol stuff.

  6. wurstsalat

    (join using an XMPP client of your choice) ?

  7. Ge0rG

    My attempts to re-establish "Jabber" as a first-class term unfortunately failed.

  8. Zash

    Reclaim the Jabber!

  9. Martin

    Wouldn't that require to free Jabber first from Cisco?

  10. Sam

    I really hate having to write "XMPP/Jabber" to prevent people from getting confused by the mixed-use of the terms, we really need something specific to the public network

  11. Sam

    Anyways, I don't know what to do about it, but just writing some very simple copy is hard.

  12. Sam

    Probably never getting merged since there are only ever like 8 people online, but you never know: https://github.com/golang/website/pull/54

  13. Zash

    Probably only 8 people because it's not listed on the website!

  14. Sam

    Sure, but if they listed every tiny random chat the site would be rather huge :) I'm sure there are telegram and briar and wire and delta chat and, etc. chats with a handful of users too

  15. Zash

    A/B test!

  16. Ge0rG

    Sam: Zimpy!

  17. pulkomandy

    I vote for "join our chat" and imply that XMPP is the only and obvious choice for that and why would you use another protocol anyway?

  18. Zash


  19. qrpnxz

    idk why people still say jabber, nobody know what jabber is. Just double down on XMPP

  20. Zash

    Opposite experience.

  21. Zash

    "What? Oh, Jabber? Yeah we used that with Pidgin 10 years ago. It was great!"

  22. Sam

    What Zash said

  23. Holger

    Not sure we ever discussed the Jabber vs. XMPP terms before?

  24. qrpnxz

    jabber is trademark anyway no? So just go with xmpp

  25. Zash

    Holger, no, never

  26. Sam

    Holger: definitely not every other day :)

  27. Holger

    Glad it's finally brought up by someone.

  28. Zash

    qrpnxz: The XSF has permission to use the Jabber trademark.

  29. Zash

    and to sublicense it

  30. qrpnxz

    to whom does the xsf sublicense

  31. Zash

    Bruno the Jabber™ Bear for example

  32. Zash

    https://yaxim.org/bruno/ 🙂

  33. Zash

    I believe there's a list somewhere

  34. Sam

    qrpnxz: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/jabber-trademark/approved-applications

  35. qrpnxz

    alright, a limited list. I'm sure it's quite rare to only want to talk about the apps in this list. So XMPP wins

  36. Sam

    Sounds good, you should send an SMTP message to the board to let them know

  37. Sam

    I'm being a jerk, but the point is that no normal person will remember or want to say that :)

  38. qrpnxz

    xd funny way to put it. But why would i do that when we are talking about how we are gonna use it, and in particular in the go website.

  39. pulkomandy

    wait Jabberfr is not in that list? Are they using the name ilegally then? :o

  40. qrpnxz

    what? XMPP? but IRC is no problem? Unconvinced

  41. Zash

    All it really takes is a huge marketing budget, which we don't have.

  42. Sam

    IRC isn't really used anymore in a significant way except in nerd communities, so yes, that seems consistent

  43. moparisthebest

    Sam, let me tell you about how XMPP is used

  44. qrpnxz

    kek fair enough

  45. Sam

    moparisthebest: right, that's the point

  46. Sam

    That's why it would be nice to have another word for the public network.

  47. qrpnxz

    I agree jabber is a better name, but i'm not gonna write that anywhere if it only refers to this limited list of software that i've never heard of

  48. moparisthebest

    oh we are having the jabber vs xmpp discussion again ? lol

  49. moparisthebest

    in that case, just say snikket

  50. moparisthebest

    jabber is owned by cisco, the end

  51. qrpnxz


  52. Sam

    I legit like the idea of snikket, but then it looks like you can only use it on Android and nowhere else

  53. moparisthebest

    no? android and ios are the official ones, but it works with any

  54. Sam

    android is the only one listed on the website

  55. Sam

    which is what people will find

  56. Zash

    It's early days, iOS client is in beta

  57. Sam

    right, so I feel like the name isn't usable yet

  58. Sam

    just for searchability and setup

  59. moparisthebest

    are you targetting the general public ?

  60. moparisthebest

    because they have androids

  61. Zash

    For all intents and purposes, assume that it's a 50/50 split between Android and iOS

  62. Sam

    moparisthebest: not so much in the U.S., iphone is still king here

  63. Zash

    Here it's like 10%, but still produces like 50% of the app sales.

  64. Zash

    Source: Vaguely recalled what someone said at a local mobile game company.

  65. moparisthebest

    > According to StatCounter, in 2020, Android owned 71.93% of the worldwide mobile operating system market share while iOS took 27.47%.

  66. Zash

    Varies a lot by country from what I've heard

  67. Martin

    > Opposite experience. > "What? Oh, Jabber? Yeah we used that with Pidgin 10 years ago. It was great!" Opposite for me. Jabber? We use Cisco Jabber at work, I hate it!

  68. Zash

    And nothing in-between

  69. moparisthebest

    https://www.mobileapps.com/blog/android-vs-ios-market-share roughly looks like the whole world vastly prefers android except the usa which is backwards with an even split :/

  70. Martin

    > And nothing in-between There's only extremes on the internetz.

  71. Martin

    But I think the term jabber is burned as it is owned by cisco. But I agree xmpp is not a good term for user facing solutions.