jdev - 2021-06-12

  1. şişio has joined
  2. marc has left
  3. selurvedu homebeachm, Diego, you could make a wildcard dns record e.g. *.communities.myserver.tld pointing to communities.myserver.tld and configure your server (i.e. write your own module – I never heard of any servers that can do this) to handle each muc host in that namespace as a separate entity. I believe that doesn't require any new XEPs.
  4. gutuning has left
  5. selurvedu However, that's just the tip of an iceberg. This is not a complete solution to get communities / spaces (Matrix/Element uses this term) / guilds (an old Discord term, still used in their developer docs) / "servers" (screw Discord for using that term for end users) working as desired, since how do you
  6. selurvedu a) handle who can and cannot join the particular space? Even if you manage to make use of something like ejabberd ACLs, there is no way to configure that on client side. You could use something "really simple", like a bot, for handling that, but see my point below.
  7. selurvedu b) make user-friendly invitations to non-public spaces? For public ones it is easier since you can simply use an xmpp uri pointing to any room, just like with any regular MUC. This would also work with XEP-0249 invitations. For private spaces, this would not work with current XEPs, unless you use another "really simple" solution like setting your module to have an auto-generated special password-protected room (like welcome@1312.spaces.myserver.tld) that you can invite people to, and if they join with a correct password (supplied in XEP-0249 invitation or in XMPP URI, e.g. xmpp:welcome@1312.spaces.myserver.tld?join;password=tmppwd25519 ), the server would allow them to discover and join all other rooms in that space.
  8. Kev has left
  9. Kev has joined
  10. selurvedu c) etc. These are just two most obvious points that I got off the top of my head.
  11. selurvedu The "really simple" solutons I mentioned may be simple, but they are not conforming to any standard and would lead to server-specific implementations. At least having a "best practice" XEP would solve most, if not all, possible discrepancies.
  12. Zash has left
  13. selurvedu Even if you manage to stick to the currently avaliable XEPs and not invent any new ones, there still would be obvious UX issues. It would be usable, yes, but the UX would be, well, not utterly terrible, but much, much worse than what Element or Discord can offer. For instance: d) If a user joins a channel, they would simply not know that the channel is a part of a bigger space they can join and that there are other channels around. I don't see any solution for this other than a XEP that would state how can a server indicate that info and how the client is supposed to use it. e) There would be no ways to make temporary invitations, unless your server can handle that on its own as described in b). But, again, server-specific stuff is undesirable. f) etc.
  14. debacle has left
  15. suohua has joined
  16. Zash has joined
  17. selurvedu rom1dep, that new feature of Gajim is very interesting indeed – they went with a time-tested solution similar to ones used in Slack, Discord, Element, Wire, etc. – but AFAIK, it's purely local and client-only. That said, if XMPP will have communities some day, they would fit nicely into it, just like in other IMs I mentioned.
  18. suohua has left
  19. suohua has joined
  20. gutuning has joined
  21. Diego has left
  22. selurvedu has left
  23. alexbay218 has left
  24. Zash has left
  25. suohua has left
  26. şişio has left
  27. dezant has left
  28. dezant has joined
  29. şişio has joined
  30. Diego has joined
  31. emus has left
  32. idk has left
  33. gutuning has left
  34. gutuning has joined
  35. marc0s has left
  36. marc0s has joined
  37. şişio has left
  38. şişio has joined
  39. şişio has left
  40. şişio has joined
  41. gutuning has left
  42. gutuning has joined
  43. Diego » d) If a user joins a channel, they would simply not know that the channel is a part of a bigger space they can join and that there are other channels around. I don't see any solution for this other than a XEP that would state how can a server indicate that info and how the client is supposed to use it. selurvedu: some sort of tie-in to service discovery?
  44. gutuning has left
  45. mac has left
  46. idk has joined
  47. dezant has left
  48. gutuning has joined
  49. mac has joined
  50. larma has joined
  51. dezant has joined
  52. şişio has left
  53. şişio has joined
  54. alexbay218 has joined
  55. şişio has left
  56. mac has left
  57. şişio has joined
  58. dezant has left
  59. gutuning has left
  60. şişio has left
  61. gutuning has joined
  62. şişio has joined
  63. idk has left
  64. şişio has left
  65. şişio has joined
  66. alexbay218 has left
  67. lovetox has left
  68. lovetox has joined
  69. mikeye has joined
  70. dezant has joined
  71. gutuning has left
  72. alexbay218 has joined
  73. mikeye has left
  74. gutuning has joined
  75. mikeye has joined
  76. xecks has joined
  77. wurstsalat has joined
  78. Alex has joined
  79. debacle has joined
  80. goffi has joined
  81. asterix has left
  82. asterix has joined
  83. Kiwi has joined
  84. dezant has left
  85. emus has joined
  86. rom1dep has left
  87. mikeye has left
  88. gutuning has left
  89. pulkomandy can you make the channel be "invitation only" (does that exist in XMPP?) and then have some other thing ("the group" / "the community") send invitations to join it?
  90. dezant has joined
  91. asterix has left
  92. asterix has joined
  93. Martin has left
  94. Martin has joined
  95. paul has left
  96. paul has joined
  97. şişio has left
  98. gutuning has joined
  99. floretta has left
  100. floretta has joined
  101. şişio has joined
  102. marc has joined
  103. mikeye has joined
  104. asterix has left
  105. asterix has joined
  106. MattJ pulkomandy: yes, kinda
  107. gutuning has left
  108. MattJ In XMPP it's less about "was this person invited" and more "is this person on thr member list"
  109. Kev has left
  110. Kev has joined
  111. MattJ And servers will automatically add people to the members list when you invite them, if the room is configured that way
  112. MattJ And if you use "mediated invites" (where you ask the room to send the invite)
  113. MattJ So that's how you achieve what you want.... whatever it is. Just have something to manage the member list, which could be a bot or something built into the server.
  114. alacer has joined
  115. alacer has left
  116. paul has left
  117. paul has joined
  118. dezant has left
  119. rom1dep has joined
  120. paul has left
  121. paul has joined
  122. gutuning has joined
  123. SJM has left
  124. SJM has joined
  125. dezant has joined
  126. asterix has left
  127. asterix has joined
  128. Diego has left
  129. debacle has left
  130. asterix has left
  131. asterix has joined
  132. mikeye has left
  133. marc0s has left
  134. marc0s has joined
  135. floretta has left
  136. floretta has joined
  137. mikeye has joined
  138. pasdesushi has joined
  139. pasdesushi has left
  140. pasdesushi has joined
  141. marc0s has left
  142. marc0s has joined
  143. marc0s has left
  144. marc0s has joined
  145. mikeye has left
  146. pasdesushi has left
  147. mikeye has joined
  148. Zash has joined
  149. gutuning has left
  150. gutuning has joined
  151. mikeye has left
  152. marc0s has left
  153. marc0s has joined
  154. Kev has left
  155. Kev has joined
  156. asterix has left
  157. asterix has joined
  158. asterix has left
  159. asterix has joined
  160. asterix has left
  161. asterix has joined
  162. gutuning has left
  163. gutuning has joined
  164. lovetox has left
  165. gutuning has left
  166. lovetox has joined
  167. Kiwi has left
  168. gutuning has joined
  169. asterix has left
  170. asterix has joined
  171. Freddy has left
  172. COM8 has joined
  173. COM8 has left
  174. gutuning has left
  175. gutuning has joined
  176. Freddy has joined
  177. Kev has left
  178. Kev has joined
  179. marc has left
  180. Kev has left
  181. Kev has joined
  182. Kev has left
  183. Kev has joined
  184. mac has joined
  185. Yagizа has joined
  186. marc has joined
  187. pasdesushi has joined
  188. gutuning has left
  189. gutuning has joined
  190. pasdesushi has left
  191. şişio has left
  192. Diego has joined
  193. şişio has joined
  194. idk has joined
  195. gutuning has left
  196. gutuning has joined
  197. mac has left
  198. mac has joined
  199. emus has left
  200. emus has joined
  201. Kev has left
  202. Kev has joined
  203. mac has left
  204. mac has joined
  205. gutuning has left
  206. mac has left
  207. dezant has left
  208. debacle has joined
  209. şişio has left
  210. emus has left
  211. emus has joined
  212. paul has left
  213. paul has joined
  214. şişio has joined
  215. gutuning has joined
  216. idk has left
  217. idk has joined
  218. marc0s has left
  219. marc0s has joined
  220. Alex has left
  221. Alex has joined
  222. idk has left
  223. idk has joined
  224. gutuning has left
  225. gutuning has joined
  226. Kiwi has joined
  227. marc has left
  228. marc has joined
  229. paul has left
  230. paul has joined
  231. şişio has left
  232. gutuning has left
  233. gutuning has joined
  234. dezant has joined
  235. şişio has joined
  236. lovetox has left
  237. marc0s has left
  238. marc0s has joined
  239. marc0s has left
  240. marc0s has joined
  241. mac has joined
  242. lovetox has joined
  243. Kev has left
  244. Kev has joined
  245. Kev has left
  246. Kev has joined
  247. selurvedu has joined
  248. mac has left
  249. mac has joined
  250. selurvedu Diego, yeah, you can already use the service discovery manually, so a client will just need to do that automatically and display it somehow
  251. gutuning has left
  252. Diego selurvedu: perfect, so in theory we don't even need anything clientside for it to function
  253. Diego side note though
  254. Diego it does seem kind of unnecessary
  255. Diego this whole 'communities' thing
  256. Diego because I mean
  257. selurvedu Diego, this is disputable and a matter of taste
  258. Diego just look at the XSF itself
  259. Diego it just uses some website to list the hatrooms
  260. Diego it just uses some website to list the chatrooms
  261. Diego Well, yeah
  262. Diego selurvedu: and what about the management of these communities? with adhoc commands ran on e.g. communities.server.org?
  263. selurvedu Diego, if a goal is to have a guilds / spaces clone, we do need some convention about how the conforming clients have to perform discovery and indicate the availability of such spaces
  264. Diego yeah
  265. Diego so just a best practices XEP i guess
  266. selurvedu same with the management via ad-hoc
  267. Diego yep
  268. selurvedu Yeah, I mentioned that in my long post :)
  269. Diego yep you did
  270. Diego it's probably the best way to do it like that
  271. Diego so then there's graceful degradation
  272. Diego if clients already support disco
  273. Diego but hey that is obvious
  274. Diego thanks though selurvedu
  275. Diego i'm not so sure whether to try to implement this or not
  276. Diego I'll see
  277. asterix has left
  278. asterix has joined
  279. marc0s has left
  280. marc0s has joined
  281. alex-a-soto has left
  282. gutuning has joined
  283. gutuning has left
  284. emus has left
  285. emus has joined
  286. selurvedu has left
  287. selurvedu has joined
  288. selurvedu has left
  289. selurvedu has joined
  290. şişio has left
  291. şişio has joined
  292. marc has left
  293. marc has joined
  294. asterix has left
  295. asterix has joined
  296. marc has left
  297. idk has left
  298. marc has joined
  299. Alex has left
  300. idk has joined
  301. şişio has left
  302. marc has left
  303. marc has joined
  304. şişio has joined
  305. gutuning has joined
  306. Alex has joined
  307. asterix has left
  308. asterix has joined
  309. floretta has left
  310. floretta has joined
  311. Yagizа has left
  312. şişio has left
  313. marc0s has left
  314. marc0s has joined
  315. şişio has joined
  316. gutuning has left
  317. gutuning has joined
  318. kikuchiyo has left
  319. Alex has left
  320. Kev has left
  321. Kev has joined
  322. idk has left
  323. lovetox has left
  324. marc0s has left
  325. marc0s has joined
  326. lovetox has joined
  327. mikeye has joined
  328. asterix has left
  329. asterix has joined
  330. mikeye has left
  331. Kev has left
  332. Kev has joined
  333. debacle has left
  334. marc has left
  335. gutuning has left
  336. gutuning has joined
  337. goffi has left
  338. gutuning has left
  339. marc0s has left
  340. marc0s has joined
  341. şişio has left
  342. marc0s has left
  343. marc0s has joined
  344. şişio has joined
  345. marc0s has left
  346. marc0s has joined
  347. mikeye has joined
  348. dezant has left
  349. dezant has joined
  350. xecks has left
  351. gutuning has joined
  352. selurvedu has left
  353. selurvedu has joined