jdev - 2021-08-19


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  1115. Link Mauve sonny, ↑ that discussion.
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  1125. Sam Does any service implement something like a "soft ban" or "silencing" a user? Eg. if you've got a user who's being a bit spammy in a chat because they got in an argument, for example, so you don't want to ban them outright because they're normally an okay user and things just got heated you could "silence" them which would drop all incoming/outgoing stanzas (just as if they were blocked) *except* to people they've already got a presence subscription to. Or maybe that wouldn't be a useful moderation action at all? I'm not sure.
  1126. Sam Or maybe this sort of thing is mostly a problem with rooms, not with 1:1 chats where that would be most useful
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  1128. Zash Have thought about time-limited affiliations.
  1129. Kev 45 supports silencing already, you just remove voice :)
  1130. Sam I was thinking more 1:1 chats, but maybe that's less of an issue in general and if they're spamming 1:1's they're more likely to be actual spammers
  1131. edhelas 0045 already have the features, we just need to discover them now
  1132. Zash Kev: And then you just leave and come back to reset it...
  1133. nephele Could be usefull for schools or unis or such, remove the association on end of year but allows to download past messasges
  1134. Kev Zash: Well, 45 doesn’t say that. 45 doesn’t say that your role has to be reset when you rejoin, that’s just what people have traditionally done :)
  1135. Sam I was writing up a federation abuse policy (the idea being that the code of conduct governs internal users and the federation policy governs external users) but maybe that's not actually a useful distinction to make. How you moderate it remains the same, the only difference is what tools are available (do you block a spammy user or delete them, for example)
  1136. Sam Maybe instead it's "Code of Conduct" governs all individual users, "Federation Abuse Policy" only governs what servers we deliberatley sever federation with.
  1137. Sam Anyways, just thinking out loud; moderation is tough. Maybe this would have been better for operators@
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  1139. Zash Kev, right, sure
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  1144. jonas’ Kev, how do you remove voice in a room without muc_moderated? :)
  1145. moparisthebest please model it off of the activitypub federation abuse policy where if you don't block at least 100 instances because of the software they run you are a nazi and should be blocked from federating
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  1147. Kev jonas’ with the some command as normal.
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  1230. norayr people, do you aware, if adding someone to the muc without asking for permission, was discussed or not.
  1231. norayr and what the standard has to say about it.
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  1235. MattJ norayr, you can add someone to the affiliation lists (owner, admin, member), but you can't force someone to join
  1236. MattJ Their server can insert auto-join bookmarks, which many clients will obey
  1237. Zash This is either the greatest feature or the greatest weakness, depending on who you ask.
  1238. norayr hmmm. so one of my friend hates when people add him to groups. what can i suggest?
  1239. norayr he says it is bizarre that it goes without even asking.
  1240. Zash Clients often automatically follow invites sent by contacts, as they are considered trusted.
  1241. norayr >This is either the greatest feature or the greatest weakness, depending on who you ask. i guess telegram does the same, you have no control over who adds you where.
  1242. MattJ norayr, that would be your friend's client then, not XMPP
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  1244. MattJ But I know this is intentional behaviour by some of them, because it resembles 1:1 chats and how groups in other systems work
  1245. norayr MattJ: i don't understand what you mean.
  1246. norayr >Clients often automatically follow invites sent by contacts, as they are considered trusted.
  1247. norayr Zash: so according to specs, is it a client responsibility?
  1248. MattJ The person "adding" someone to the group is actually sending an invitation. Like I said, you can't force someone to join a group.
  1249. norayr ok this explains everything. Thank you.
  1250. MattJ It sounds like your friend has a client that automatically accepts invitations and joins the group without prompting.
  1251. MattJ This is how it works in most other systems too
  1252. MattJ e.g. WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Slack, ...
  1253. Kev Swift half-joins invites automatically. It joins ‘impromptu’ MUCs automatically, and asks for normal MUCs.
  1254. norayr i never heard of a client named 'swift'. what is 'impromptu' muc?
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  1256. Kev It’s what some people call (I don’t think we ever put it in a XEP) a MUC that gets created just for a quick chat between a couple of people, and isn’t meant to persist the way a normal channel does.
  1257. Kev So just like you can open a chat to one person and just type, being able to open a chat to two people and just type (etc.)
  1258. Kev As opposed to thinking “I’m going to create a chatroom and invite some people to it”.
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