jdev - 2021-08-19

sonny, ↑ that discussion.

Does any service implement something like a "soft ban" or "silencing" a user? Eg. if you've got a user who's being a bit spammy in a chat because they got in an argument, for example, so you don't want to ban them outright because they're normally an okay user and things just got heated you could "silence" them which would drop all incoming/outgoing stanzas (just as if they were blocked) *except* to people they've already got a presence subscription to. Or maybe that wouldn't be a useful moderation action at all? I'm not sure.

Or maybe this sort of thing is mostly a problem with rooms, not with 1:1 chats where that would be most useful

Have thought about time-limited affiliations.

45 supports silencing already, you just remove voice :)

I was thinking more 1:1 chats, but maybe that's less of an issue in general and if they're spamming 1:1's they're more likely to be actual spammers

0045 already have the features, we just need to discover them now

Kev: And then you just leave and come back to reset it...

Could be usefull for schools or unis or such, remove the association on end of year but allows to download past messasges

Zash: Well, 45 doesn’t say that. 45 doesn’t say that your role has to be reset when you rejoin, that’s just what people have traditionally done :)

I was writing up a federation abuse policy (the idea being that the code of conduct governs internal users and the federation policy governs external users) but maybe that's not actually a useful distinction to make. How you moderate it remains the same, the only difference is what tools are available (do you block a spammy user or delete them, for example)

Maybe instead it's "Code of Conduct" governs all individual users, "Federation Abuse Policy" only governs what servers we deliberatley sever federation with.

Anyways, just thinking out loud; moderation is tough. Maybe this would have been better for operators@

Kev, right, sure

Kev, how do you remove voice in a room without muc_moderated? :)

please model it off of the activitypub federation abuse policy where if you don't block at least 100 instances because of the software they run you are a nazi and should be blocked from federating

jonas’ with the some command as normal.

people, do you aware, if adding someone to the muc without asking for permission, was discussed or not.

and what the standard has to say about it.

norayr, you can add someone to the affiliation lists (owner, admin, member), but you can't force someone to join

Their server can insert auto-join bookmarks, which many clients will obey

This is either the greatest feature or the greatest weakness, depending on who you ask.

hmmm. so one of my friend hates when people add him to groups. what can i suggest?

he says it is bizarre that it goes without even asking.

Clients often automatically follow invites sent by contacts, as they are considered trusted.

>This is either the greatest feature or the greatest weakness, depending on who you ask. i guess telegram does the same, you have no control over who adds you where.

norayr, that would be your friend's client then, not XMPP

But I know this is intentional behaviour by some of them, because it resembles 1:1 chats and how groups in other systems work

MattJ: i don't understand what you mean.

>Clients often automatically follow invites sent by contacts, as they are considered trusted.

Zash: so according to specs, is it a client responsibility?

The person "adding" someone to the group is actually sending an invitation. Like I said, you can't force someone to join a group.

ok this explains everything. Thank you.

It sounds like your friend has a client that automatically accepts invitations and joins the group without prompting.

This is how it works in most other systems too

e.g. WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Slack, ...

Swift half-joins invites automatically. It joins ‘impromptu’ MUCs automatically, and asks for normal MUCs.

i never heard of a client named 'swift'. what is 'impromptu' muc?

It’s what some people call (I don’t think we ever put it in a XEP) a MUC that gets created just for a quick chat between a couple of people, and isn’t meant to persist the way a normal channel does.

So just like you can open a chat to one person and just type, being able to open a chat to two people and just type (etc.)

As opposed to thinking “I’m going to create a chatroom and invite some people to it”.