jdev - 2021-09-30

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  322. lovetox

    i have a user, which host its muc service and httpupload service on the same hostname

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  324. lovetox

    is this something usual which a client needs to deal with, or is this something a server opterator should rather not do

  325. Zash

    I don't think that should be a problem

  326. edhelas

    ah this :D I had to fix my database schema for those cases

  327. edhelas

    why XMPP admins always want to do funky things :p

  328. Zash

    Because they don't want to deal with a pile of subdomains, I gather.

  329. edhelas

    subdomains are expensives things nowadays

  330. Zash

    They'd put the MUC on the base host if they could (and some do this)

  331. pep.


  332. pep.

    Also, it's prettier :)

  333. edhelas


  334. pep.

    Totally not subjective

  335. pep.

    like it's totally not subjective to ask for multiple domains anyway :P

  336. Zash

    Namespacing and separation of concern is of course bad things that we should avoid.

  337. Zash


  338. edhelas

    I remember that we talked about some MAM sync strategy, is there some documents somewhere that explains some good practices ?

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  342. edhelas

    better than "grab all the things since the begining of times"

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  346. edhelas

    found that one

  347. edhelas


  348. Zash

    https://github.com/modernxmpp/modernxmpp/pull/41 discussion: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2021-August/038483.html

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  351. edhelas

    ok I see

  352. edhelas

    hopefully I don't have the JS clients limit

  353. edhelas

    finally, some good things of having a server side based XMPP client !

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  359. flow

    lovetox> i have a user, which host its muc service and httpupload service on the same hostname should be perfectly fine, in fact, you should be able to run most services under the main XMPP name, which makes many things a lot easier, e.g. less dns entries, less stuff to put in the certificate (and to authenticate)

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  361. Zash

    flow, can I interest you in authoring a XEP saying that?

  362. Zash

    currently some clients don't work unless you put HTTP Upload on a subdomain

  363. Zash

    while some others don't work if you put XEP-0215 on a subdomain

  364. Zash

    MUC has the thing where it occupies nodeparts@ and you'd have take care not to cause conflicts with users

  365. flow

    but that's something the service implementation has to take care of

  366. Zash


  367. Zash

    IIRC some clients had to fix problems when you did put users and MUCs at the same hostname

  368. flow

    that said, I believe MUC occupying the same "namesapce" as user JIDs is a valid reason to have an extra subdomain

  369. flow

    but http upload would be better without one

  370. Zash

    flow, yes, but the examples show a subdomain, so that's what at least one client did, and thus you have to deploy it like that or it doesn't work

  371. flow

    Zash, did you open issues for clients which need http upload on an extra XMPP address?

  372. Zash

    and they didn't want to change because look at the XEP!

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  374. flow

    I think I could be presuaded in writing a patch for the http upload XEP to not use an extra XMPP address if it has consensus

  375. flow

    I think I could be persuaded in writing a patch for the http upload XEP to not use an extra XMPP address if it has consensus

  376. Zash

    I'm only really aware of Siskin, and that issue was closed

  377. flow

    closed as WONTFIX?

  378. Zash


  379. flow

    https://github.com/tigase/siskin-im/issues/37#issuecomment-625876730 is probably a hint that some tribal knowledge of XMPP got lost

  380. flow

    IIRC there is a way to iterate all "services" of a user's server to discover the feature

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  382. flow

    e.g. that PSI does to find components

  383. flow

    that way, it should be trivial to discover that http upload is provied by the user's server address directly

  384. MattJ

    FWIW my preferred fix is for someone to write an informational "how to discover services" XEP

  385. flow

    yes, but I wonder why this is not part of xep30 already

  386. flow

    not saying that it must go int xep30, only that it feels like the right place to mention it from the beginning

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  388. MattJ

    Yeah, in hindsight it should have been I think

  389. Zash

    What's this saying? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html#items-relationship

  390. flow

    seems to come pretty close to it

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  392. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#disco-service seems to perpetuate the subdomain requirement

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  395. Zash

    There's also the thing with node-less MUCs

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  402. lovetox

    in case of gajim, it works if you put httpupload without subdomain

  403. lovetox

    what it seems the user did was, it put muc and httpupload on the same subdomain

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  405. lovetox

    which was unexpected because i discover these with disco-items

  406. lovetox

    and for some reason i thought, every items belongs to one service

  407. lovetox

    so after i found a service in the subsequent disco info for the item

  408. lovetox

    i stopped looking for furhter

  409. lovetox

    i stopped looking for further

  410. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html#info-basic > An entity MAY have multiple identities.

  411. Zash

    I thought it made sense to put all file transfer related things on the same host, ie proxy65+http upload+xep215

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