jdev - 2021-09-30

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19:48:10 lovetox i have a user, which host its muc service and httpupload service on the same hostname
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19:48:49 lovetox is this something usual which a client needs to deal with, or is this something a server opterator should rather not do
19:49:26 Zash I don't think that should be a problem
19:49:40 edhelas ah this :D I had to fix my database schema for those cases
19:50:03 edhelas why XMPP admins always want to do funky things :p
19:50:25 Zash Because they don't want to deal with a pile of subdomains, I gather.
19:50:57 edhelas subdomains are expensives things nowadays
19:51:00 Zash They'd put the MUC on the base host if they could (and some do this)
19:52:26 pep. (yes!)
19:52:37 pep. Also, it's prettier :)
19:52:48 edhelas *doubts*
19:52:51 pep. Totally not subjective
19:53:05 pep. like it's totally not subjective to ask for multiple domains anyway :P
19:53:15 Zash Namespacing and separation of concern is of course bad things that we should avoid.
19:53:20 Zash /s
19:53:25 edhelas I remember that we talked about some MAM sync strategy, is there some documents somewhere that explains some good practices ?
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19:56:11 edhelas better than "grab all the things since the begining of times"
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19:57:37 edhelas found that one
19:57:43 edhelas https://github.com/modernxmpp/modernxmpp/pull/41/files
19:57:54 Zash https://github.com/modernxmpp/modernxmpp/pull/41 discussion: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2021-August/038483.html
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20:02:11 edhelas ok I see
20:02:27 edhelas hopefully I don't have the JS clients limit
20:02:50 edhelas finally, some good things of having a server side based XMPP client !
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20:15:18 flow lovetox> i have a user, which host its muc service and httpupload service on the same hostname should be perfectly fine, in fact, you should be able to run most services under the main XMPP name, which makes many things a lot easier, e.g. less dns entries, less stuff to put in the certificate (and to authenticate)
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20:15:49 Zash flow, can I interest you in authoring a XEP saying that?
20:16:15 Zash currently some clients don't work unless you put HTTP Upload on a subdomain
20:16:34 Zash while some others don't work if you put XEP-0215 on a subdomain
20:17:10 Zash MUC has the thing where it occupies nodeparts@ and you'd have take care not to cause conflicts with users
20:18:40 flow but that's something the service implementation has to take care of
20:19:11 Zash yes
20:19:47 Zash IIRC some clients had to fix problems when you did put users and MUCs at the same hostname
20:19:50 flow that said, I believe MUC occupying the same "namesapce" as user JIDs is a valid reason to have an extra subdomain
20:19:59 flow but http upload would be better without one
20:20:47 Zash flow, yes, but the examples show a subdomain, so that's what at least one client did, and thus you have to deploy it like that or it doesn't work
20:20:51 flow Zash, did you open issues for clients which need http upload on an extra XMPP address?
20:20:57 Zash and they didn't want to change because look at the XEP!
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20:21:52 flow ~~I think I could be presuaded in writing a patch for the http upload XEP to not use an extra XMPP address if it has consensus~~ ✎
20:22:04 flow I think I could be persuaded in writing a patch for the http upload XEP to not use an extra XMPP address if it has consensus ✏
20:22:09 Zash I'm only really aware of Siskin, and that issue was closed
20:22:18 flow closed as WONTFIX?
20:22:45 Zash https://github.com/tigase/siskin-im/issues/37
20:24:36 flow https://github.com/tigase/siskin-im/issues/37#issuecomment-625876730 is probably a hint that some tribal knowledge of XMPP got lost
20:25:03 flow IIRC there is a way to iterate all "services" of a user's server to discover the feature
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20:25:16 flow e.g. that PSI does to find components
20:25:44 flow that way, it should be trivial to discover that http upload is provied by the user's server address directly
20:26:18 MattJ FWIW my preferred fix is for someone to write an informational "how to discover services" XEP
20:26:40 flow yes, but I wonder why this is not part of xep30 already
20:26:58 flow not saying that it must go int xep30, only that it feels like the right place to mention it from the beginning
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20:27:07 MattJ Yeah, in hindsight it should have been I think
20:27:51 Zash What's this saying? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html#items-relationship
20:29:07 flow seems to come pretty close to it
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20:34:35 Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#disco-service seems to perpetuate the subdomain requirement
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20:37:28 Zash There's also the thing with node-less MUCs
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20:55:54 lovetox in case of gajim, it works if you put httpupload without subdomain
20:56:11 lovetox what it seems the user did was, it put muc and httpupload on the same subdomain
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20:56:26 lovetox which was unexpected because i discover these with disco-items
20:56:41 lovetox and for some reason i thought, every items belongs to one service
20:57:03 lovetox so after i found a service in the subsequent disco info for the item
20:57:09 lovetox ~~i stopped looking for furhter~~ ✎
20:57:15 lovetox i stopped looking for further ✏
20:57:51 Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html#info-basic > An entity MAY have multiple identities.
20:58:29 Zash I thought it made sense to put all file transfer related things on the same host, ie proxy65+http upload+xep215
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