jdev - 2021-10-08

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  162. theTedd

    those who prefer console/text clients over gui: reasons? (no judgement, just wondering)

  163. Zash

    because terminals are peak UX!

  164. Zash currently using Dino tho

  165. goffi

    less distraction, no need to click, with yakuake on KDE I can show my client with F12. But I like GUI client from time to time too, depending on the context.

  166. Zash

    performance, coherent behavior, same (dark!) theme everywhere

  167. theTedd

    would a gui client with full keyboard control be a sufficient replacement, or is there still something missing?

  168. goffi

    The lack of distraction (no image/animated gif/whatever animation) is quite nice. I'm using e-ink display from time to time, it would be painful with most GUI client.

  169. Zash

    Power user stuff like using it via ssh is also nice, tho haven't done that since my irssi days

  170. theTedd

    but AnimatedHearts™ are the key to XMPP success!

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  172. Zash

    Let me tell you about libcaca!

  173. Holger

    Text-based client can run within GNU screen / tmux, so you can use e.g. screen/tmux copy-paste mechanisms between your chat client and other applications ...

  174. theTedd

    is that different from a shared clipboard, or just the control mechanism?

  175. Holger

    Just the control mechanism. So no difference in principle, no.

  176. Holger

    My `screen` runs 24/7, I re-attach to the same instance from home/work. But yes in theory proper GUI clients should be able to offer mostly the same functionality with full MAM support and whatnot.

  177. Zash

    screen copypaste whatnow?

  178. Zash

    Not minimalist enough, I went for `dtach`

  179. Holger

    You win!

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  181. theTedd

    my thought was whether a single front-end could suit both (assuming all required functionality) or whether it was something more; I get the minimalist aspect

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  185. theTedd

    thanks for your inputs

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  189. pep.

    Even though I'm used to not having pictures in terminal, It's not exactly a limitation anymore. I guess what I'm looking for in a client is full keyboard integration (shortcuts, commands, what else?), compat UI, dark theme, administrative functions. Usable remotely is also a requirement. Dunno if a GUI would do

  190. theTedd

    I don't see any reason a gui client couldn't do those things, though they tend not to because of different priorities

  191. pep.


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  193. Zash

    You can do mouse-only things in TUI too

  194. moparisthebest

    X forwarding !

  195. pep.

    X? That thing is still alive?

  196. moparisthebest

    Always has been

  197. theTedd

    there was an update recently

  198. Zash

    forever in our hearts

  199. Zash

    theTedd, yeah, it's called HTML+CSS+JS over HTTP these days.

  200. goffi

    why using a client remotely with XMPP and MAM nowadays? It's a real question, what are the use cases ? I could see file sending, but a CLI client is more adapted IMO.

  201. pep.

    What do you mean goffi?

  202. Zash

    Faster resync

  203. pep.

    You don't understand the use-case of having a running client remotely on a server?

  204. goffi

    pep.: you have already sync on any client on your local device, why using a remote client?

  205. Zash

    Ultimate Inbox, send a single ^L and get everything you need

  206. goffi

    I don't see (!= don't understand).

  207. pep.

    what local device

  208. goffi

    pep.: the one you use to connect to remote server.

  209. pep.

    So my remote device? :P

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  211. goffi

    you use your device with telepathy (not the software)?

  212. DebXWoody

    Because I always have the same setup / open chat windows. Counter of unread messages.

  213. moparisthebest

    goffi: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0183.html ?

  214. pep.

    My laptop should be just a terminal I use to connect to another machine. I can destroy it and get a new one and my env should be useable again once ssh is setup, and maybe a window manager and a browser

  215. pep.

    (because remotely browsers.. unfortunately WEB(tm) in a console is meh)

  216. moparisthebest

    DebXWoody: so if there was a protocol to sync open windows and unread count you'd use a local client instead?

  217. pep.

    (because remote browsers.. unfortunately WEB(tm) in a console is meh)

  218. defanor

    I like using Emacs for IMs (and email, and IF/MUDs too), perhaps it counts as a TUI; it's pretty good at editing and navigating texts, as well as managing buffers/"windows", scripting/configuring. There are GUI programs trying to use some of the similar key bindings, and possibly even Guile for scripting, but it's far from a complete replacement.

  219. Zash

    Is this inbox: 🦋️

  220. theTedd

    no Zash, that's a pidgin

  221. Zash

    pid0, pid1, pidgin, pidvodka?

  222. moparisthebest

    pep.: Browser as a service in the cloud is actually a thing https://blog.cloudflare.com/browser-beta/

  223. pep.


  224. moparisthebest

    A few others too... Unfortunately

  225. theTedd

    XMPP needs more clouds and crypocoins

  226. theTedd


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  229. moparisthebest

    It's the one thing preventing widespread adoption

  230. moparisthebest

    *the next one thing

  231. Zash

    It's next one things all the way down!

  232. moparisthebest

    Always has been

  233. theTedd

    nuke it to be sure?

  234. DebXWoody

    moparisthebest: I'm not sure. Didn't think about it. I'm using a mix of local and remote. Depends on the mood :)

  235. Zash

    moparisthebest, didn't Opera do browser as a service / remote rendering decades ago?

  236. moparisthebest

    For mobile? I have vague memories of that

  237. Zash

    Yeah, back when mobiles didn't have the processing power for web pages

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  239. Zash

    So they'd render on some server farm, optimized for small screens and feed you a picture.

  240. pep.

    theTedd, make me a vim-like UI plz, that I also want to contribute to, so Rust, plz. :P

  241. theTedd

    I was thinking Rust and MVVC, so there could easily be multiple 'faces' fo the front-end

  242. moparisthebest

    But will the front end talk to the back end with XMPP?

  243. theTedd

    that would be a nice tautology, so no

  244. pep.

    I find it difficult to have "mutliple front-ends"

  245. theTedd

    the difficulty is maintaining feature parity

  246. pep.

    Also, plz join chat@xmpp.rs. It'd be great to avoid wasted efforts

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  248. Zash

    theTedd, you're not about to reinvent Telepathy (the software) ?

  249. Zash

    Telepathy but with XMPP for protocol would have been cool.

  250. theTedd

    I'm definitely not, no

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  348. goffi

    For the record Libervia (client I'm working on) is multi-frontends (Python backend, frontend can be anything)

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  372. wurstsalat

    edhelas, I remember someone once showed a flow chart of when to show notifications as a client. was that you?

  373. Zash

    The Slack one? Georg?

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  375. MattJ

    It may have been me, I like sharing it

  376. MattJ

    It's from this blog post: https://slack.engineering/reducing-slacks-memory-footprint/

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  378. MattJ

    Never far from my reach when someone says "but it's easy, you just have to..."

  379. wurstsalat

    ah perfect, that was it, thanks a lot!

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