jdev - 2021-10-08

those who prefer console/text clients over gui: reasons? (no judgement, just wondering)

because terminals are peak UX!

less distraction, no need to click, with yakuake on KDE I can show my client with F12. But I like GUI client from time to time too, depending on the context.

performance, coherent behavior, same (dark!) theme everywhere

would a gui client with full keyboard control be a sufficient replacement, or is there still something missing?

The lack of distraction (no image/animated gif/whatever animation) is quite nice. I'm using e-ink display from time to time, it would be painful with most GUI client.

Power user stuff like using it via ssh is also nice, tho haven't done that since my irssi days

but AnimatedHearts™ are the key to XMPP success!

Let me tell you about libcaca!

Text-based client can run within GNU screen / tmux, so you can use e.g. screen/tmux copy-paste mechanisms between your chat client and other applications ...

is that different from a shared clipboard, or just the control mechanism?

Just the control mechanism. So no difference in principle, no.

My `screen` runs 24/7, I re-attach to the same instance from home/work. But yes in theory proper GUI clients should be able to offer mostly the same functionality with full MAM support and whatnot.

screen copypaste whatnow?

Not minimalist enough, I went for `dtach`

You win!

my thought was whether a single front-end could suit both (assuming all required functionality) or whether it was something more; I get the minimalist aspect

thanks for your inputs

Even though I'm used to not having pictures in terminal, It's not exactly a limitation anymore. I guess what I'm looking for in a client is full keyboard integration (shortcuts, commands, what else?), compat UI, dark theme, administrative functions. Usable remotely is also a requirement. Dunno if a GUI would do

I don't see any reason a gui client couldn't do those things, though they tend not to because of different priorities

Yep

You can do mouse-only things in TUI too

X forwarding !

X? That thing is still alive?

Always has been

there was an update recently

forever in our hearts

theTedd, yeah, it's called HTML+CSS+JS over HTTP these days.

why using a client remotely with XMPP and MAM nowadays? It's a real question, what are the use cases ? I could see file sending, but a CLI client is more adapted IMO.

What do you mean goffi?

Faster resync

You don't understand the use-case of having a running client remotely on a server?

pep.: you have already sync on any client on your local device, why using a remote client?

Ultimate Inbox, send a single ^L and get everything you need

I don't see (!= don't understand).

what local device

pep.: the one you use to connect to remote server.

So my remote device? :P

you use your device with telepathy (not the software)?

Because I always have the same setup / open chat windows. Counter of unread messages.

goffi: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0183.html ?

My laptop should be just a terminal I use to connect to another machine. I can destroy it and get a new one and my env should be useable again once ssh is setup, and maybe a window manager and a browser

DebXWoody: so if there was a protocol to sync open windows and unread count you'd use a local client instead?

(because remote browsers.. unfortunately WEB(tm) in a console is meh) ✏

I like using Emacs for IMs (and email, and IF/MUDs too), perhaps it counts as a TUI; it's pretty good at editing and navigating texts, as well as managing buffers/"windows", scripting/configuring. There are GUI programs trying to use some of the similar key bindings, and possibly even Guile for scripting, but it's far from a complete replacement.

Is this inbox: 🦋️

no Zash, that's a pidgin

pid0, pid1, pidgin, pidvodka?

pep.: Browser as a service in the cloud is actually a thing https://blog.cloudflare.com/browser-beta/

lol

A few others too... Unfortunately

XMPP needs more clouds and crypocoins

*cryptocoins

It's the one thing preventing widespread adoption

*the next one thing

It's next one things all the way down!

Always has been

nuke it to be sure?

moparisthebest: I'm not sure. Didn't think about it. I'm using a mix of local and remote. Depends on the mood :)

moparisthebest, didn't Opera do browser as a service / remote rendering decades ago?

For mobile? I have vague memories of that

Yeah, back when mobiles didn't have the processing power for web pages

So they'd render on some server farm, optimized for small screens and feed you a picture.

theTedd, make me a vim-like UI plz, that I also want to contribute to, so Rust, plz. :P

I was thinking Rust and MVVC, so there could easily be multiple 'faces' fo the front-end

But will the front end talk to the back end with XMPP?

that would be a nice tautology, so no

I find it difficult to have "mutliple front-ends"

the difficulty is maintaining feature parity

Also, plz join chat@xmpp.rs. It'd be great to avoid wasted efforts

theTedd, you're not about to reinvent Telepathy (the software) ?

Telepathy but with XMPP for protocol would have been cool.

I'm definitely not, no

For the record Libervia (client I'm working on) is multi-frontends (Python backend, frontend can be anything)

edhelas, I remember someone once showed a flow chart of when to show notifications as a client. was that you?

The Slack one? Georg?

It may have been me, I like sharing it

It's from this blog post: https://slack.engineering/reducing-slacks-memory-footprint/

Never far from my reach when someone says "but it's easy, you just have to..."

ah perfect, that was it, thanks a lot!