jdev - 2021-10-17

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  142. lovetox does a element name like <stream:stream> in xml has a special meaning because of the ":" or is this just a element name like any other and ":" has no special meaning
  143. lovetox i tried to find it in the xml spec, but this thing is unreadable for me
  144. flow lovetox, IIRC it has no special meaning if there are no XML namespaces
  145. flow I think https://www.w3.org/TR/xml-names/ is what gives ":" in xml element names a special semantic
  146. flow So as soon as you use namespaces, which is probably true for most practical usages of XML, it has a special meaning
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  149. MattJ Including in XMPP
  150. flow lovetox, but I am curious, as it look like there is some more backstory to this question. if so, would you mind elaborating a bit? :)
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  153. lovetox the backstory is i try to rewrite the nbxmpp streamparser and now i have to understand this :)
  154. flow lovetox, I'd hoped that python has a good xml pull parser library that you could re-use?
  155. flow otherwise I feel like you will hit a few xml trapdoors and probably re-work your implementation 2-3 times :)
  156. flow but you will learn a lot about XML in the process, so not sure if this will be a loss, just be prepared
  157. MattJ 500% use an existing parser
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  159. MattJ Please please please
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  161. flow make sure to look at existing APIs. I think Java's StAX is a very good example of an XML stream parser
  162. jonas’ the standard library parser is good enough for that
  163. jonas’ it is based on Expat and does SAX
  164. jonas’ please use that.
  165. MattJ expat is a great choice
  166. Zash just remember to disable all the security holes
  167. jonas’ it can be used non-blockingly. If you need proof, look at aioxmpp.
  168. Zash at least that's easier than reinventing the security holes yourself
  169. lovetox calm down, i use expat
  170. flow jonas’, isn't SAX a push parser? when can those not be used non-blockingly?
  171. lovetox still need to understand xml namespaces
  172. MattJ I think recent expat versions have more sensible defaults, though forbidden XMPP stuff will still need handling
  173. jonas’ lovetox, do you? the parser should do all that for you.
  174. jonas’ (and expat does if you ask nicely)
  175. jonas’ (and by extension, the python standard library xml module does)
  176. flow I think you need to understand XML when parsing XML, and even if not, it can't hurt ;)
  177. jonas’ https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/blob/devel/aioxmpp/xml.py#L818-L1111 explicitly waiving the infectiousness of the *GPL for you, lovetox, if you need/use that as inspiration.
  178. lovetox jonas’, if i search for nx prefix in that code, i find a lot of matches
  179. lovetox thanks flow, that document did help to understand prefixes :)
  180. jonas’ nx?
  181. lovetox *ns
  182. lovetox regarding your comment, that its not necessary to understand and python xml libs do it for you
  183. MattJ The summary is that the element called "foo" in one namespace is not the same as the element called "foo" in another namespace. A namespace is identified by a string, usually found in the 'xmlns' attribute. Prefixes are simply a more concise replacement for adding 'xmlns' attributes everywhere (you declare them once and use them as many times as you want)
  184. MattJ This looks like a sane explanation: http://tech.usgin.org/content/xml-namespaces-and-prefixes
  185. MattJ XMPP is heavily based on XML namespaces, so understanding them is not really optional for an XMPP dev. But a good parser (such as expat) will save you from having to handle all the rules (such as inheritance) yourself, and it will tell you what namespace every element is in (regardless of whether it used a prefix or an xmlns attribute)
  186. lovetox yes that would be nice
  187. lovetox i just tested expat
  188. lovetox and it does not handle it
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  190. lovetox at least the expat api that is accessible via python
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  194. lovetox hm altough some examples show it does, maybe i need to investigate this more
  195. lovetox Expat can optionally do XML namespace processing for you, enabled by providing a value for namespace_separator
  196. lovetox oh i did specify that :)
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  199. jonas’ lovetox, check that: https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/blob/devel/aioxmpp/xml.py#L1106-L1111
  200. lovetox jonas’, i use currently xml.parsers.expat.ParserCreate
  201. lovetox is there any benefit of using the sax module?
  202. jonas’ less boiler plate to write I guess
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  205. jonas’ I strongly suggest to go with the high-level SAX API, it saves you worrying about namespace prefixes and stuff.
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  208. lovetox ok i look into it
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  257. lovetox and all the prefix stuff is just to save on size? it does not add some new feature to xml? so if a client does not use ns prefixes at all its perfectly fine?
  258. Zash prefix stuff is generally not used in XMPP, apart from for <stream:stream> and Dialback
  259. Zash Does it not add the ability to namespace attributes? I.e how else would you say `<e xmlns:foo="urn:example:ns" foo:bar="blah"/>` ?
  260. Zash (Which is also pretty rare in XMPP)
  261. lovetox yeah it does, forgot about the attribute stuff
  262. lovetox its weird in one example the stream prefix is used
  263. lovetox in others not in the rfc
  264. Zash Hm?
  265. Zash Like `<stream ....` ? Probably just to make the examples more compact
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  268. lovetox for example here its used
  269. lovetox https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6120#section-9.1.2
  270. lovetox https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6120#section-9.2.1
  271. lovetox here than suddenly missing from the features
  272. Zash 🤷️
  273. lovetox i think they want to make a point that it can be used
  274. Zash But doesn't it also say that you should encode the stream as `<stream:stream ...>` ?
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  277. Zash https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6120#section-4.8.5
  278. lovetox oh .. wait
  279. lovetox its not optional
  280. lovetox if we want to define a default namespace of jabber:client in <stream>
  281. lovetox you need a prefix if <stream> should not have jabber:client
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  285. lovetox is this example not wrong here
  286. lovetox S2: <stream from='example.net' id='hTiXkW+ih9k2SqdGkk/AZi0OJ/Q=' to='im.example.com' version='1.0' xmlns='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'>
  287. lovetox it does not define a default namespace of jabber:client or server
  288. Zash `<stream xmlns="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"><message xmlns="jabber:client"/></stream>` == `<stream:stream xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams" xmlns="jabber:client"><message/></stream>`
  289. Zash `<stream xmlns="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"><message xmlns="jabber:client"/></stream>` == `<stream:stream xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams" xmlns="jabber:client"><message/></stream:stream>`
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  291. lovetox hm yeah
  292. lovetox but without defining it on the stream element, this would indeed be very wasteful
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  295. Zash So if you could be certain that the other end of the stream understands namespaces and prefixes fully, you could cut down on repeated namespace declaration for common things. Like imagine `<sm:r/>` instead of `<r xmlns="urn:xmpp:sm:3"/>`
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  297. reset test
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  299. reset hmm
  300. Zash This was a triumph! I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS!
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