jdev - 2021-11-10

  1. kikuchiyo has joined

  2. emus has left

  3. stpeter has joined

  4. jgart has left

  5. jgart has joined

  6. hiran has left

  7. stpeter has left

  8. stpeter has joined

  9. stpeter has left

  10. Zash has left

  11. al has left

  12. Zash has joined

  13. sonny has left

  14. sonny has joined

  15. sonny has left

  16. sonny has joined

  17. kikuchiyo has left

  18. marc0s has left

  19. marc0s has joined

  20. sonny has left

  21. sonny has joined

  22. kikuchiyo has joined

  23. sonny has left

  24. sonny has joined

  25. marc0s has left

  26. marc0s has joined

  27. dezant has left

  28. dezant has joined

  29. dezant has left

  30. dezant has joined

  31. jgart has left

  32. kikuchiyo has left

  33. SouL has left

  34. al has joined

  35. dezant has left

  36. dezant has joined

  37. qrpnxz has left

  38. qrpnxz has joined

  39. qrpnxz has left

  40. qrpnxz has joined

  41. dezant has left

  42. dezant has joined

  43. Apollo has left

  44. kikuchiyo has joined

  45. dezant has left

  46. dezant has joined

  47. Maranda has left

  48. kikuchiyo has left

  49. Maranda has joined

  50. dezant has left

  51. dezant has joined

  52. SouL has joined

  53. jgart has joined

  54. aram has joined

  55. aram has left

  56. msavoritias has joined

  57. sonny has left

  58. sonny has joined

  59. al has left

  60. Yagizа has joined

  61. al has joined

  62. raghavgururajan has joined

  63. 9lakes has left

  64. bung has left

  65. me9 has joined

  66. al has left

  67. pasdesushi has joined

  68. hiran has joined

  69. goffi has joined

  70. raghavgururajan has left

  71. goffi has left

  72. goffi has joined

  73. sander has left

  74. me9 has left

  75. wurstsalat has joined

  76. Apollo has joined

  77. malthe has joined

  78. emus has joined

  79. goffi has left

  80. goffi has joined

  81. marc0s has left

  82. marc0s has joined

  83. pulkomandy has left

  84. pulkomandy has joined

  85. debacle has joined

  86. pulkomandy has left

  87. Alex has joined

  88. goffi has left

  89. marc0s has left

  90. malthe has left

  91. huhn has joined

  92. marc0s has joined

  93. goffi has joined

  94. marmistrz has joined

  95. kikuchiyo has joined

  96. jgart has left

  97. sonny has left

  98. sonny has joined

  99. Kev has left

  100. Kev has joined

  101. sonny has left

  102. sonny has joined

  103. jgart has joined

  104. marmistrz has left

  105. defanor has left

  106. mac has joined

  107. atomicwatch has joined

  108. marc0s has left

  109. marc0s has joined

  110. sonny has left

  111. sonny has joined

  112. sonny has left

  113. sonny has joined

  114. defanor has joined

  115. jubalh has left

  116. rafasaurus has left

  117. rafasaurus has joined

  118. mac has left

  119. Kev has left

  120. Kev has joined

  121. 9lakes has joined

  122. mac has joined

  123. Kev has left

  124. Kev has joined

  125. marmistrz has joined

  126. antranigv has joined

  127. marmistrz has left

  128. inky has joined

  129. inky has left

  130. eta has left

  131. eta has joined

  132. antranigv has left

  133. antranigv has joined

  134. jubalh has joined

  135. antranigv has left

  136. mac has left

  137. mac has joined

  138. inky has joined

  139. PapaTutuWawa has joined

  140. marmistrz has joined

  141. Kev has left

  142. Kev has joined

  143. jgart has left

  144. Wojtek has joined

  145. inky has left

  146. Sam

    Is there anyone who has done an implementation of Message Styling that would be interested in using a shared set of unit tests to ensure compatibility?

  147. hiran has left

  148. debacle has left

  149. Yagizа has left

  150. Yagizа has joined

  151. sonny has left

  152. sonny has joined

  153. marmistrz has left

  154. eta has left

  155. eta has joined

  156. mac has left

  157. marc0s has left

  158. marc0s has joined

  159. antranigv has joined

  160. marc0s has left

  161. marc0s has joined

  162. marc0s has left

  163. marc0s has joined

  164. sonny has left

  165. sonny has joined

  166. jubalh has left

  167. huhn has left

  168. xecks has left

  169. marc0s has left

  170. marc0s has joined

  171. antranigv has left

  172. homebeach has left

  173. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left

  174. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has left

  175. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has joined

  176. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined

  177. homebeach has joined

  178. x51 has joined

  179. emus has left

  180. antranigv has joined

  181. antranigv has left

  182. antranigv has joined

  183. PapaTutuWawa has left

  184. marc0s has left

  185. pasdesushi has left

  186. Maranda has left

  187. antranigv has left

  188. xecks has joined

  189. Maranda has joined

  190. pasdesushi has joined

  191. x51 has left

  192. pasdesushi has left

  193. pasdesushi has joined

  194. x51 has joined

  195. emus has joined

  196. mac has joined

  197. marc0s has joined

  198. marmistrz has joined

  199. x51 has left

  200. al has joined

  201. x51 has joined

  202. malthe has joined

  203. stpeter has joined

  204. sonny has left

  205. lovetox has left

  206. sonny has joined

  207. sonny has left

  208. sonny has joined

  209. lovetox has joined

  210. malthe has left

  211. marmistrz has left

  212. x51 has left

  213. mac has left

  214. mac has joined

  215. inky has joined

  216. huhn has joined

  217. malthe has joined

  218. malthe has left

  219. nephele has joined

  220. antranigv has joined

  221. al has left

  222. jubalh has joined

  223. nephele

    Sam: What do the unit tests do, check the rendering of items or so?

  224. antranigv has left

  225. antranigv has joined

  226. sonny has left

  227. sonny has joined

  228. sonny has left

  229. sonny has joined

  230. antranigv has left

  231. marmistrz has joined

  232. Apollo has left

  233. inky has left

  234. al has joined

  235. pulkomandy has joined

  236. qrpnxz has left

  237. qrpnxz has joined

  238. x51 has joined

  239. antranigv has joined

  240. qrpnxz has left

  241. qrpnxz has joined

  242. debacle has joined

  243. me9 has joined

  244. atomicwatch has left

  245. mac has left

  246. pulkomandy has left

  247. pulkomandy has joined

  248. x51 has left

  249. Apollo has joined

  250. antranigv has left

  251. Maranda has left

  252. inky has joined

  253. Maranda has joined

  254. Apollo has left

  255. test1 has joined

  256. test1 has left

  257. antranigv has joined

  258. Sam

    nephele: yah, they take in a message and spit out what parts of the message should have what styles

  259. nephele

    Ah, so it's unit tests for the parser part

  260. inky has left

  261. sonny has left

  262. antranigv has left

  263. sonny has joined

  264. nephele

    Are these for https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0393.html ?

  265. Sam


  266. al has left

  267. nephele

    I am reading it, I'm quite lost on what a child block is, is this only in reference to nested quotes?

  268. debacle has left

  269. nephele

    Anyway, I want to implement message formatting for Renga at some point or another, If i can figure out how to include unit tests that could be quite neat to have the same ones

  270. pulkomandy

    you can have unit tests in Renga by comparing the text_run_array in a BView with the expected output from the test, I guess? Sounds possible to do at least

  271. antranigv has joined

  272. marmistrz has left

  273. nephele

    I'm not sure if something like quotes could be represented with a text_run_array

  274. qrpnxz has left

  275. qrpnxz has joined

  276. qrpnxz has left

  277. qrpnxz has joined

  278. goffi has left

  279. qrpnxz has left

  280. qrpnxz has joined

  281. PapaTutuWawa has joined

  282. marmistrz has joined

  283. al has joined

  284. Kev has left

  285. Kev has joined

  286. qrpnxz has left

  287. qrpnxz has joined

  288. x51 has joined

  289. qrpnxz has left

  290. qrpnxz has joined

  291. Kev has left

  292. Kev has joined

  293. Kev has left

  294. Kev has joined

  295. Kev has left

  296. jubalh has left

  297. sander has joined

  298. Kev has joined

  299. me9 has left

  300. me9 has joined

  301. Kev has left

  302. Apollo has joined

  303. Kev has joined

  304. Kev has left

  305. Kev has joined

  306. inky has joined

  307. xecks has left

  308. antranigv has left

  309. antranigv has joined

  310. jubalh has joined

  311. me9 has left

  312. antranigv has left

  313. inky has left

  314. al has left

  315. xecks has joined

  316. malthe has joined

  317. pulkomandy has left

  318. pulkomandy has joined

  319. qrpnxz has left

  320. qrpnxz has joined

  321. Kev has left

  322. x51 has left

  323. Yagizа has left

  324. Kev has joined

  325. inky has joined

  326. qrpnxz has left

  327. qrpnxz has joined

  328. qrpnxz has left

  329. qrpnxz has joined

  330. marmistrz has left

  331. Սամուէլ has joined

  332. lovetox

    the more i look into python xml libs the more i believe xmpps decision to not use prefixes is actually the weird thing that nobody does

  333. lovetox

    i think one can say there i almost no support in libs for so called "default" namespaces

  334. lovetox

    pythons etree.Element, has no way of setting a default namespace, nor parsing it

  335. lovetox

    lxml supports them better, but it still fills like something which is a second class citizen

  336. PapaTutuWawa has left

  337. Kev has left

  338. Kev has joined

  339. malthe has left

  340. al has joined

  341. marc0s has left

  342. marc0s has joined

  343. marc0s has left

  344. marc0s has joined

  345. marc0s has left

  346. marc0s has joined

  347. xecks has left

  348. marc0s has left

  349. marc0s has joined

  350. debacle has joined

  351. x51 has joined

  352. PapaTutuWawa has joined

  353. xecks has joined

  354. jgart has joined

  355. Wojtek has left

  356. MattJ

    lovetox, I've no idea what you mean... an XML library either supports namespaces or it doesn't. XMPP doesn't do anything weird, and there's not really any such thing as a "default namespace" in XML (actually there is, but let's not go there)

  357. nephele has left

  358. lovetox

    i also thought that, but its not the case, or it depends what you mean by supports

  359. antranigv has joined

  360. lovetox

    if you parse that with pythons included xml lib

  361. lovetox

    '<a xmlns="test" />'

  362. lovetox

    you get an object and if you serialise it back its

  363. lovetox

    '<ns0:a xmlns:ns0="test" />'

  364. Zash

    why the

  365. Kev has left

  366. Trbl

    fk would you implement xmpp in python

  367. flow

    looks like a valid transformation?

  368. Zash

    looks like an excellent way to convince people that xml is scary and to use json instead

  369. flow

    even though not an optimal one

  370. lovetox

    flow how does that help me if xmpp says i should use no prefixes :D

  371. Trbl

    should or must

  372. Trbl

    i'd just say fuck it if its the first case

  373. flow

    probably not much, but then again, I think, at least those kind of prefixes are fine

  374. Kev has joined

  375. flow

    a different (and desirable) kind of prefixes are the ones that a declare in <stream/>

  376. flow

    a different (and desirable) kind of prefixes are the ones that a declared in <stream/>

  377. flow

    those are probably likely to cause issues with certain impelementations

  378. flow

    but not the prefixes that are introduced by the transformation you showed

  379. flow

    assuming they are only done on a sub <stream/> level

  380. lovetox

    so every server will be ok if i send

  381. lovetox

    <ns0:message xmlns:ns0="jabber:client" />

  382. lovetox

    because that would be great :D

  383. Zash

    Prosody will be fine. ``` > util.xml.parse[[<ns0:message xmlns:ns0="jabber:client" />]] <message xmlns='jabber:client'/> ```

  384. malthe has joined

  385. flow

    lovetox, maybe not every server, but chances are high that the XML parser on the receiving end will handle it just fine

  386. flow

    but still, the transformation is not space-efficient, so you may want to avoid it

  387. flow

    maybe there is simple switch to change the behavior of serialiser?

  388. Zash

    space-efficiency would be to stuff a ton of namespace prefixes on the stream header

  389. Zash

    `<sm:r/>` etc

  390. flow

    sure, but let's do baby step and get this fixed first

  391. flow

    sure, but let's do baby steps and get this fixed first

  392. x51 has left

  393. flow

    Zash, would prosody support namespace declartions in <stream/>? if so, announce it as stream feature and I'll implement an optimization in Smack for it

  394. Kev has left

  395. Zash

    All that's handled transparently by libexpat, so should work fine

  396. huhn has left

  397. Zash

    The receiving/parsing side at least.

  398. flow

    Zash, then we should consider specifying a stream feature for this. so that clients can safely perform this optimization

  399. flow

    as I have heard that other servers bail on it

  400. marc0s has left

  401. marc0s has joined

  402. Kev has joined

  403. Zash


  404. x51 has joined

  405. malthe has left

  406. MattJ

    But the stream feature comes after the client already sent the opening stream header...

  407. Zash

    Save it for the post-sasl stream restart

  408. Zash

    assuming we still have a stream restart in the future

  409. MattJ

    Carry state between the unauthed and authed streams?!

  410. Zash


  411. Zash

    Maybe, one day, we should redesign the whole stream startup thing.

  412. flow

    if it's an non-TLS connection that its fine

  413. flow

    otherwise you have to announce the feature after TLS

  414. flow

    but before auth

  415. flow

    I think this should be safe?

  416. Zash

    Make it client-first, where it sends all the extensions it wants, and the server picks the parts it likes

  417. MattJ


  418. Zash

    Since this is the server telling the client things _after_ it has been authenticated with TLS & certs

  419. Zash

    no wait

  420. Zash

    aaaaargh, everything is backwards

  421. Zash


  422. Zash

    so confused

  423. Zash

    Server does advertise things after it has been authenticated. Then the client authenticates. And then it does the thing.

  424. Zash

    So, should be fine?

  425. x51 has left

  426. marc0s has left

  427. marc0s has joined

  428. flow

    simply in the stream features of step 8 in RFC 6120 § 9.1.1

  429. flow

    then the client can declare the namespaces in step 13

  430. Kev has left

  431. flow

    so besides the <mechanisms/> in <stream:features/> you have a <namespace-prefixes-in-stream/> flag

  432. Zash

    as a bonus, after the restart, throw in a namespaced attribute on the opening stream header to tell the server it's okay to do the same thing

  433. Kev has joined

  434. Zash

    `<stream:stream to="example.com" ns:prefixes="ok" xmlns:ns="urn:xmpp:tbd:namespaces-prefixes">` something something

  435. marc0s has left

  436. marc0s has joined

  437. marc0s has left

  438. marc0s has joined

  439. marc0s has left

  440. marc0s has joined

  441. antranigv has left

  442. Kev has left

  443. emus has left

  444. antranigv has joined

  445. Kev has joined

  446. goffi has joined

  447. antranigv has left

  448. al has left

  449. antranigv has joined

  450. marmistrz has joined

  451. marc0s has left

  452. marc0s has joined

  453. inky has left

  454. al has joined

  455. Kev has left

  456. Kev has joined

  457. pasdesushi has left

  458. pasdesushi has joined

  459. hiran has joined

  460. COM8 has joined

  461. Trbl has left

  462. Trbl has joined

  463. inky has joined

  464. malthe has joined

  465. msavoritias has left

  466. me9 has joined

  467. Trbl has left

  468. Trbl has joined

  469. marmistrz has left

  470. qrpnxz has left

  471. qrpnxz has joined

  472. qrpnxz has left

  473. qrpnxz has joined

  474. qrpnxz has left

  475. qrpnxz has joined

  476. qrpnxz has left

  477. qrpnxz has joined

  478. PapaTutuWawa has left

  479. pulkomandy has left

  480. pulkomandy has joined

  481. jonathan has joined

  482. me9 has left

  483. marc0s has left

  484. marc0s has joined

  485. stpeter has left

  486. Kev has left

  487. Kev has joined

  488. emus has joined

  489. malthe has left

  490. jgart has left

  491. stpeter has joined

  492. wurstsalat has left

  493. marc0s has left

  494. marc0s has joined

  495. jgart has joined

  496. stpeter has left

  497. marc0s has left

  498. marc0s has joined

  499. goffi has left

  500. stpeter has joined

  501. hiran has left

  502. sonny has left

  503. sonny has joined