jdev - 2021-11-13


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  103. nephele xml namespaces is one reason I don't like using xml much, conceptually having just a second nested element if neccesary would work too, but namespaces have yet another way to represent the same conceptual data in it : /
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  105. MattJ Namespaces aren't quite the same as just having another element, because they allow you to identify elements and prevent conflicts when people extend
  106. nephele They are not exactly the same, no, but conceptually there is not that much difference
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  242. Squeaky Latex Folf It's nice knowing where some features in a stanza come from
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  244. Squeaky Latex Folf Do you know how hard it is to get search engines to find what you're looking for?
  245. Squeaky Latex Folf Especially if you don't know the name of something
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  250. lovetox i hate when the data you search is the name of the tag
  251. lovetox like in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0108.html
  252. lovetox i find that bad design
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  254. lovetox under the assumption that every element is exendable, this means i have to iter the childs, then compare the found tag name against some kind of allowed list
  255. Zash treat it as an enum?
  256. lovetox yes but thats actually not what i want in an extendable protocol
  257. lovetox someone maybe wants to introduce a new element
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  260. lovetox long story short, this makes things unnecessary error prone
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  263. lovetox instead do <activity> <general>relaxing</general> <specific>reading</specific> </activiy>
  264. lovetox this way i dont need to iterate through childs, i can just tell, get me that element text
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  267. lovetox it does not matter what other client stuff into this, it will never alter my way of finding what i need
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  269. lovetox and its perfectly extendable if someone wants to put some new general activity which is not in the list the XEP defines, i can still take it and present it as an activity
  270. MattJ I know what you're saying, but that's also harder, you can't just stick arbitrary text in there to "extend" it
  271. lovetox on the other side if i find a new child which is not in my list, i dont even know if the goal was to extend the lists of activitys, or if this is some completely different shit
  272. MattJ You wouldn't get an unknown child in the same namespacr
  273. MattJ You wouldn't get an unknown child in the same namespace
  274. MattJ That's the point
  275. lovetox you mean everything in that namespace is an activity
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  278. MattJ Everything defined as an activity, yes
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  280. lovetox .....
  281. MattJ Extending it would use a new namespace (as shown in examples)
  282. lovetox thats not the same thing
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  284. lovetox <activity> <relaxing/> <notanactivity/> </activity>
  285. MattJ That's illegal
  286. Zash That would be an error.
  287. lovetox i can treat this as an protocol violation?
  288. MattJ Yes
  289. lovetox ok thats good
  290. lovetox that makes things more sane
  291. MattJ Just get the first child of <activity> that's in the XEP's namespace, it will always be one of the ones defined in the XEP
  292. MattJ If not, it's invalid
  293. MattJ Ignore stuff in other namespaces
  294. lovetox sadly not MattJ, because there is also a <text> chid
  295. lovetox the xep forces you to Iterate
  296. Zash Something like `getChildSetNS(Set<Name>, Namespace)` would be nice
  297. MattJ Unfortunate
  298. lovetox from a implementor view, i want things i want to query a specific thing, not go start searching for something
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  350. flow lovetox> i find that bad design it is bad design
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  353. MattJ What's a better design?
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  359. lovetox i put both into attributes
  360. lovetox then you can still extend the <activity> tag with childs in other namespaces if you want
  361. lovetox or as i said before, define elements and set the values as data of them
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  364. lovetox i dont understand why the custom extension which is an example in that xep needs to be a child of a specific activity
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  366. lovetox like its a custom extension anyway not defined anywhere so what does it matter if its a child of a specific activity or just the <activity> tag
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  370. MattJ The idea is that it's not an additional activity, but a more specific one of the same type
  371. Zash What if you're doing 3 things at once!
  372. MattJ So if you understand the specific one, you can use that. If not, you still see the outer one
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  380. lovetox MattJ, simply move the name of the activity into an attribute would work then
  381. lovetox <activity xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/activity'> <general name="inactive"> <specific name="sleeping"> <hibernating xmlns='http://www.ursus.info/states'/> </specific> </general> </activity>
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  383. lovetox i would prefer that probably
  384. lovetox <activity xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/activity' general="inactive" specific="sleeping"> <hibernating xmlns='http://www.ursus.info/states'/> </activity>
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