jdev - 2021-11-28

WTH.

Is the date setting on the sending site wrong or did juser take almost one year to deliver that message?

https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/juser/2020-December/007186.html

FWIW, "Received" headers usually contain timestamps, so you may be able to track when it went where, according to the servers adding those headers, and compare to user-set "Date".

I happened to receive a reply to a message from April just yesterday, maybe it's the delayed message delivery day.

Perhaps it was triggered by the configuration change mentioned in https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/council/2021-November/004520.html

> Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com > (mail-dm6nam12olkn2074.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.22.74]) > by atlas.jabber.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBAF089D > for <juser@jabber.org>; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:15:31 +0000 (UTC)

i find it really ugly

that resource binding is done via IQ

YES

why though, i mean there was probably a history or story behind this

Welcome to the sensible camp! Let's give angry stares to those who think everything in session startup should be iq stanzas 😉

lovetox, behold this horror: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0078.html

I remember doing that with telnet 900 years ago

but it makes no sense, reading the rfc, its only nonzas all the way, and then suddenly they start with stanzas BEFORE WE HAVE A JID :D

I think "nonzas" were invented at the time of IETF standardization

title is enough for me, to not read that

Scroll down to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0078.html#example-3 and cry

Tho it was easier to type that into telnet than doing SCRAM in your head 😉

or even PLAIN

lovetox, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0386.html ? ;)

and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0388.html

and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0389.html

the holy trinity of XMPP 2.0 connection establishing

yes, im interested in that, is there some working support in prosody for that?

I had a prototype / WIP somewhere

Hopefully there'll be more time to work on that after Prosody 0.12 gets out the door.

also something very ugly

every stanza has a type attribute with a value

except presence, it can just be absent

message too

only iq is strict

no with message its just an optimization

you can leave it out but that means "normal"

for presence there is no default

Only having to send `<presence/>` to go online is nice tho.

makes writing stanza handlers fun, now you need to add code for the single case, where you want to match on the absence of an attribute

Zash, no problem with that, just assign a default like with message

presence type=normal

or something

how about 'available' to mirror 'unavailable' ?

and then hide that in abstractions so it serializes out to None or whathaveyou

enums! :)

actually i do that, with show

and that broke everything?

boolean?

no works quite well

i simply have a added, Show.AVAILABLE

but yeah this is the next ugly thing with presence

you commnicate your state with show

but not if you are available

then its absent

now you need everytime to check 2 things, actually type must be absent AND show must be absent

and no problem with optimizations on the stream with default values etc

but to have nothing, puts library developers in the situation to add stuff thats not in the standard to make things sane

Abstractions gonna abstract

i really just wonder, that rfc was written over some weeks or months whatever, some inital idea and it was like Presence: Ok most things can be absent, we dont need defaults, just the absence is enough IQ: Nothing is allowed to be absent Message: Lets allow something to be absent, but we define a default

The initial RFCs were written years after Jabber was already a thing

ok so this was like some thing that needed to be backwards compatible from the start

?

Jabber was launched in 1999, the IETF standardization happened around 2002-2005 I think (I wasn't involved in any of this back then)

Historical Reasons, yes 🙂

i found something debatable

prosody answers a bind request with

<iq type='result' id='myid'><bind xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind'><jid>lovetox@jabber.fr/test</jid></bind></iq>

no from on the stanza would mean this iq is from the user account ✏

I've found it safest for my own sanity to not think of those as actual iq stanzas

should it not be instead from the server? so from=jabber.fr

Instead, pretend that's a nonza that just happens to be called <iq xmlns="jabber:client">

to and from are only allowed on real stanzas

before you've bound a resource, those don't even make sense

Prosody even treats it as a nonza

rfc does also not include a from in its example for bind

Oh, there it is

https://modules.prosody.im/mod_sasl2.html

it gets more funny if you consider error cases while binding

in iq errors the original query is not mandatory included

then you dont even have the bind namespace

but i guess the iq stanza id ..

also there can be no other stanza in flight at that point

i hate to break the promise to the application that every iq has a from address

then don't

only because of this one case ...

treat it as a nonza

thats hard

then i need to make an exception at the parser level

but i guess i could do this

so it does not end up as a type IQ

in prosody nothing is a stanza until after resource binding

tho that's handled above the parser, nearer the routing

right now the parser translates parsed elements based on tag and namespace to respective classes

and later i dispatch depending on the type

jonas’, i dont know how much you have typed your lib, but such things are not just a problem because you have to create some exception in your code somewhere

its your IQ object now returns on get_from() suddenly None or JID

lovetox, I register the stream-level elements dynamically

that's why it's not a problem

which is incredibly ugly for applications

becuse they now get lots of typing errors, if they dont always check for None

and from gets rewritten early in the code which knows about stanzas

to be consistent

ok i will try to make it into a weird iq nonza :D

lets see how that works out

okay, I made an https://modules.prosody.im/mod_bind2.html to go with https://modules.prosody.im/mod_sasl2.html

... consisting to 80% of TODOs 🙂

Does it at least function semi-properly?

thomaslewis, you tell me!

ejabberd here, so...