jdev - 2022-01-05

  1. marc0s has left
  2. marc0s has joined
  3. FireFly has left
  4. larma has left
  5. PapaTutuWawa has left
  6. larma has joined
  7. larma has left
  8. emus has left
  9. pulkomandy has left
  10. pulkomandy has joined
  11. xnamed has joined
  12. pulkomandy has left
  13. pulkomandy has joined
  14. debacle has left
  15. xnamed has left
  16. xnamed has joined
  17. paul has joined
  18. paul has left
  19. paul has joined
  20. sonny has left
  21. sonny has joined
  22. SouL has left
  23. sonny has left
  24. raghavgururajan has joined
  25. xnamed has left
  26. marmistrz has left
  27. bung has left
  28. raghavgururajan has left
  29. marc0s has left
  30. marc0s has joined
  31. doge has joined
  32. mac has joined
  33. Yagizа has joined
  34. Sam has left
  35. Sam has joined
  36. SouL has joined
  37. pasdesushi has joined
  38. marc0s has left
  39. marc0s has joined
  40. SouL has left
  41. emus has joined
  42. msavoritias has joined
  43. SouL has joined
  44. jgart has left
  45. FireFly has joined
  46. Martin has joined
  47. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  48. homebeach has left
  49. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  50. homebeach has joined
  51. FireFly has left
  52. wurstsalat has joined
  53. FireFly has joined
  54. sonny has joined
  55. sonny has left
  56. sonny has joined
  57. doge has left
  58. doge has joined
  59. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  60. homebeach has left
  61. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  62. homebeach has joined
  63. jubalh has joined
  64. doge has left
  65. marc has joined
  66. marmistrz has joined
  67. Kev has joined
  68. doge has joined
  69. mac has left
  70. FireFly has left
  71. FireFly has joined
  72. SouL has left
  73. SouL has joined
  74. larma has joined
  75. rafasaurus has left
  76. bung has joined
  77. rafasaurus has joined
  78. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  79. homebeach has left
  80. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  81. homebeach has joined
  82. doge has left
  83. huhn has joined
  84. huhn has left
  85. huhn has joined
  86. doge has joined
  87. debacle has joined
  88. debacle has left
  89. nephele has joined
  90. nephele has left
  91. nephele has joined
  92. marc0s has left
  93. marc0s has joined
  94. marmistrz has left
  95. marc0s has left
  96. marc0s has joined
  97. goffi has joined
  98. nephele has left
  99. nephele has joined
  100. goffi has left
  101. goffi has joined
  102. nephele has left
  103. nephele has joined
  104. inky has left
  105. nephele has left
  106. marc0s has left
  107. marc0s has joined
  108. marc0s has left
  109. marc0s has joined
  110. huhn has left
  111. huhn has joined
  112. PapaTutuWawa has joined
  113. mac has joined
  114. PapaTutuWawa has left
  115. PapaTutuWawa has joined
  116. xnamed has joined
  117. debacle has joined
  118. marc0s has left
  119. marc0s has joined
  120. inky has joined
  121. antranigv has left
  122. antranigv has joined
  123. Wojtek has joined
  124. nephele has joined
  125. nephele has left
  126. nephele has joined
  127. nephele has left
  128. xecks has left
  129. xecks has joined
  130. nephele has joined
  131. nephele has left
  132. nephele has joined
  133. marc0s has left
  134. marc0s has joined
  135. atomicwatch has joined
  136. nephele has left
  137. PapaTutuWawa has left
  138. dezant has joined
  139. larma has left
  140. larma has joined
  141. larma has left
  142. larma has joined
  143. mac has left
  144. mac has joined
  145. larma has left
  146. larma has joined
  147. Wojtek has left
  148. Wojtek has joined
  149. nephele has joined
  150. nephele has left
  151. me9 has joined
  152. marc0s has left
  153. marc0s has joined
  154. PapaTutuWawa has joined
  155. nephele has joined
  156. larma has left
  157. larma has joined
  158. dezant has left
  159. dezant has joined
  160. larma has left
  161. Wojtek has left
  162. Wojtek has joined
  163. larma has joined
  164. larma has left
  165. larma has joined
  166. larma has left
  167. larma has joined
  168. larma has left
  169. larma has joined
  170. Wojtek has left
  171. Wojtek has joined
  172. atomicwatch has left
  173. atomicwatch has joined
  174. larma has left
  175. larma has joined
  176. Kiwi has left
  177. marc0s has left
  178. x51 has joined
  179. larma has left
  180. larma has joined
  181. larma has left
  182. larma has joined
  183. goffi has left
  184. goffi has joined
  185. thomaslewis has left
  186. marc0s has joined
  187. Kiwi has joined
  188. thomaslewis has joined
  189. thomaslewis has left
  190. larma has left
  191. thomaslewis has joined
  192. thomaslewis has left
  193. marc0s has left
  194. marc0s has joined
  195. larma has joined
  196. Wojtek has left
  197. Wojtek has joined
  198. marc0s has left
  199. marc0s has joined
  200. Wojtek has left
  201. doge has left
  202. doge has joined
  203. mac has left
  204. bung has left
  205. Wojtek has joined
  206. marc0s has left
  207. marc0s has joined
  208. emus has left
  209. qy What do you think about using message colours to denote encryption type in weechat?
  210. qy Alternatively, what would work well as a one character indicator for {plain,pgp,otr,omemo}
  211. Ge0rG I think that might be confusing, at least if color is the only indicator.
  212. Ge0rG A padlock with different letters / symbols in it?
  213. qy I considered: 🔏 pgp 🔐 otr 🔒 omemo 🔓 plain
  214. qy But it's a bit small
  215. qy I suppose if i add a letter after it, it could disambiguate, just leaves even less room per line
  216. Sam omemo and plain look basically identical to me on Snikket which has a mustard looking background
  217. qy Yeah
  218. catphone has joined
  219. qy Irritatingly not much seems to respect unicode variant 15 selector FE0E anymore, or i'd make the padlocks grayscale and then just colour them
  220. qy ⚿ has left
  221. qy⚿ has left
  222. qy Neat, ok ⚿ works
  223. catphone has left
  224. flow qy, are you working on an xmpp plugin for weechat?
  225. qy I am, yes
  226. qy Typing from it now actually
  227. qy https://0x0.st/ozeN.jpg
  228. jubalh has left
  229. flow qy, source or it didn't happen :)
  230. qy https://github.com/bqv/weechat-xmpp but have an alka-seltzer ready
  231. jubalh has joined
  232. flow ha :)
  233. edhelas that font-size 🔍
  234. Wojtek has left
  235. Wojtek has joined
  236. qy Yeah i like it small, more to see
  237. Link Mauve qy, fyi, in my libvte3-based terminal I get a tofu character instead.
  238. Link Mauve Maybe just because I haven’t installed a needed font; I do see the PNG emojis though.
  239. Link Mauve Maybe just because I haven’t installed a needed font; I do see the PNG emoji though.
  240. qy Link Mauve: with ⚿?
  241. qy Ack, that would be a pain
  242. Link Mauve Yes.
  243. alacer has left
  244. Wojtek has left
  245. Wojtek has joined
  246. alacer has joined
  247. xecks has left
  248. jubalh has left
  249. homebeach has left
  250. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  251. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  252. homebeach has joined
  253. Wojtek has left
  254. nephele I'm already confused by Gajim anotationg every public chat with a padlock and a "warning" sign next to it, as if something was wrong with my TLS setup, do you suppose more icons would help users much? :)
  255. Sam Is that some plugin thing? I don't think gajim does that for me (but I also don't use it except to test things on occasion)
  256. Alex has left
  257. qy Sam: how does mcabber indicate enc?
  258. Sam I don't know, I don't use e2e encryption (except on occasion in Gajim for testing things, as I mentioned)
  259. qy I think i'll just leave it to what i have now if there's no easier way, weechat users are power users, they'll notice anyway
  260. nephele Sam: No idea it's "whatever ubuntu ships", I've never used e2ee in XMPP really, but Gajim shows this in every chat
  261. Sam nephele: screenshot? I'd just be curious what it is since I don't think I've ever seen it
  262. Alex has joined
  263. nephele https://xmpp.gryphno.de/upload/OLhuL6uQL3wSQu_h/gajim.png
  264. nephele That's with the hover text visible, I've never used that option and clicking it does nothing (It doesn't behave like a button, but then it's incredibly hard to tell because the rest doesn't look like a button either...)
  265. jgart has joined
  266. doge has left
  267. Sam oh yah, I do have that button but it's so low contrast on my theme at least that I can't even see it. It just looks like a blank spot on the panel.
  268. Sam *slowclap* for GTK themes, I guess.
  269. Sam Or that icon, rather (it definitely should be a button being there in the middle of other buttons and it's surprising that it does nothing unlike everything around it)
  270. nephele I always assumed that it's supposed to be a button of sorts, but then... I also don't know what the rest does. There is a smiley which I assume is an emoji picker, a B that i assumed... is one too (it's probably formatted text, but it reminded me too much of blood type B) and then a plus and a clip thing which both mean "upload file" to me, but presumeably do different things..
  271. Martin Because here is a public semi anon muc.
  272. Martin You can't activate omemo or PGP.
  273. Martin It should work in 1-1 I guess.
  274. nephele It might work, yes. But showing this button when there is no use just trains me as a user to ignore it
  275. Sam Seems to not do anything in any 1-1 for me, but maybe this is its greyed out mode and I just don't have any compatible contact or something
  276. Martin Or no e2ee plugin.
  277. Martin > It might work, yes. But showing this button when there is no use just trains me as a user to ignore it Maybe to remind you that it's not e2e encrypted. No idea, I'm no gajim dev.
  278. emus has joined
  279. jgart has left
  280. xecks has joined
  281. wurstsalat The orange exclamation mark comes from your theme. It should be an open padlock. The button is most likely disabled because there are no encryption plugins installed. And you cannot enable omemo for example if it's a public group chat. We're looking into whether it's a good idea to hide that button completely in public group chats
  282. qy Oh, i wouldnt be so sure
  283. qy Wait, ignore that
  284. qy 1
  285. Martin 2
  286. qy Martin: 3
  287. qy [PGP encrypted message (XEP-0027)]
  288. qy [PGP encrypted message (XEP-0027)]
  289. Link Mauve Who did you encrypt those to?
  290. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/t3ObGgBLg8yoprbYTCCV1Aze/deec6ed5-0077-4c2d-96c8-87b5833dbc75.png
  291. nephele wurstsalat‎: I don't really know what theme it is, i assume the gnome default one... but then ubuntu randomly changes stuff sometimes
  292. qy [PGP encrypted message (XEP-0027)]
  293. qy Link Mauve: * ellenor@umbrellix.net
  294. qy Only person in my keyring atm
  295. qy Tried larma but then remembered don't have their key
  296. qy --> larma (https://dino.im#xmJ5qsm8JMe65pw0zN5qmUNgjPk) entered jdev@muc.xmpp.org as participant with PGP:072E9235DB996F2A
  297. qy Anyway, point was, pgp does work in mucs, its just pointless outside of muc pms :p
  298. antranigv has left
  299. antranigv has joined
  300. Zash It can work. Awkwardly and with scaling issues tho.
  301. goffi has left
  302. goffi has joined
  303. Ge0rG PGP over xmpp has a bunch of significant security issues, doesn't it? Like lack of replay protection...
  304. qy Yeah...
  305. Ge0rG qy: how much is rich xmpp support limited by weechat's internal protocol? i.e. XEP-0184 message delivery receipts or media uploads?
  306. Ge0rG qy: also your paste of larma's join has the https://dino.im#xmJ5qsm8JMe65pw0zN5qmUNgjPk URL embedded as an oob element, meaning it's supposed to be an inline file ;)
  307. qy Delivery reports i send on activity, but don't really have a way to receive, but they're indicated in a sense by chatstate anyway. Media uploads, work fine with weechat-android at least, as you see earlier, i just hackily scan the message for http links and oob them
  308. qy Yeah that has somehow gone wrong
  309. qy But AIUI thanks to conversations, embeds are ignored unless the body matches them anyway
  310. Ge0rG qy: s/thanks to conversations/in conversations/
  311. Ge0rG yaxim will embed OOB URLs if they are *contained in* the body
  312. qy Oh, just them? I should fix it then
  313. Ge0rG the whole oob mess is horrible
  314. Zash OOB also supports inclusion of a description in a `<desc/>`, but nothing supports that
  315. Zash And then we have SIMS and XEP-0447
  316. qy Ge0rG: whats the ui like? If inline file, does it still show the body?
  317. Link Mauve Zash, Gajim used to support it, until it aligned to Conversations’s lack of support.
  318. Ge0rG qy: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-October/037828.html for context
  319. Ge0rG qy: if body==url, only show the inline element, unless downloading fails, in which case show the url
  320. Ge0rG qy: if body.contains(url), show body and embed url
  321. Ge0rG qy: else: show body only
  322. qy Thats what i first expected, much better than what C does
  323. qy Good
  324. qy I'll aim for that
  325. Ge0rG qy: but you need to be compatible with conversations because it's the standard™️
  326. nephele I heard the "mood" stuff is getting removed from Gajim aswell?
  327. qy True... I think i'll go with the logic that if the url is at the start, embed it, otherwise don't. Then, even just a space can block that
  328. jubalh has joined
  329. Zash embed :- body == ${oob.desc}\s{oob.url} || ${oob.url}\s${oob.desc} || ${oob.url} maybe?
  330. qy But then C users would always miss the desc
  331. qy No, they'd miss the embed if there's a desc
  332. Zash Yes
  333. lovetox mood makes not much sense in a world where you can put 3000 emojis into your status message to express your mood, rather then choosing from 40 possible moods
  334. nephele Well, funnily enough I wanted to see if using emoji was possible for the mood stuff, but... it really isn't, there is only a couple emoji that are for a specific emotion :)
  335. nephele but then with the ones in gajim i can't tell from the pictures what they would be either, i suppose the thing is too complex
  336. lovetox it its, give people a simple text field, and they can put in there all the emojis they want and some text
  337. lovetox its enough, no need for complicated protocol
  338. lovetox and we already have that with normal presence status message
  339. nephele There are no emoji for most moods, and you'd make the /exact/ same argument for smileys, so why was mood okay then but not so much now?
  340. lovetox there were no emojis back then, or like 20
  341. lovetox the word emoji was not even in existence probably
  342. nephele text emotiocons were widely used then already, no?
  343. lovetox yeah of course everybody used like 5
  344. lovetox smile, sad, lol
  345. lovetox thats about it
  346. nephele So, if 5 were sufficient. why were then 80 moods defined?
  347. lovetox in that world, providing a xe with 40 emotions
  348. lovetox seems to be nice
  349. nephele Anyhow. I was talking about the status message
  350. lovetox why are there now 3000?
  351. nephele I don't think I even know how to make an UI to attach a mood to a message
  352. nephele emoji you mean?
  353. homebeach has left
  354. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  355. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  356. homebeach has joined
  357. nephele The answer is simple: emoji don't convey just emotions, emoji are an non-phonetic alphabet by themselves
  358. lovetox its pretty easy, ever used teams?
  359. lovetox or facebook?
  360. nephele You mean like group sports?
  361. lovetox you can attach all kind of emojis to all posts on facebook
  362. nephele I don't use facebook, no
  363. nephele the UI of a multi user chat and a facebook post seem widely different to me, each "post" is given much more room in that paradigm, no?
  364. flow > Ge0rG> PGP over xmpp has a bunch of significant security issues, doesn't it? Like lack of replay protection.. only if you use the old pgp xep, mind
  365. nephele And in that context it seems that the emoji are for /other/ people to attach, not for yourself to express the mood of a post
  366. lovetox https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/AvQnLoiUsLsATtV4/aa0707da-7530-4b61-af69-38b0a6408a2d.png
  367. lovetox there you go, thats how UI looks like to attach a mood to a message
  368. xecks has left
  369. nephele That only looks to work if you give each message much more room than in a chat :)
  370. COM8 has joined
  371. lovetox no, it works fine, microsoft teams does it for each chat message
  372. lovetox just imagine the smilies half that size
  373. COM8 has left
  374. COM8 has joined
  375. COM8 has left
  376. nephele So if teams does it and facebook, then I am even more confused why you use the existence of emoji /against/ moods
  377. lovetox https://blog.simbiox.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/emoji_chat_teams-1024x640.png
  378. nephele You managed to fit 12 lines of text on the screen :)
  379. nephele Krock: http://iteroni.com/watch?v=uKRAcBjn0Gs
  380. nephele wrong channel, sorry
  381. mac has joined
  382. nephele I don't suppose xmpp has an equivalent to a redaction request?
  383. lovetox yes it has
  384. Sam (but nothing supports it)
  385. lovetox but you cant do it, only moderators
  386. lovetox Sam with Gajim unreleased you can
  387. nephele Heh, doesn't seem very usefull if only moderators can do that, oh well
  388. lovetox its against spam
  389. lovetox not against accidental sending a message
  390. nephele In matrix you can use this for your own messages, it's undestood to "only" be a request, but it works fairly well for that usecase in my experience
  391. lovetox the mood xep allows you to attach a mood to your own message
  392. lovetox which is useless becasue you can just attach as many emojis as you want, without any xep
  393. lovetox so this has nothing to do with what facebook and teams can do
  394. nephele But... they do exactly that: allow you to "attach" stuff that isn't in the message body directly, no?
  395. lovetox to messages of *other* people
  396. lovetox the mood xep allows you only to attach stuff to a message you are currently sending
  397. lovetox not even afterwards
  398. Zash You don't need to "attach" at all, just add emojis like 🙂 😉 😭️
  399. nephele Lovetox: Yes, I said that I don't see any good UI to display that, you contered with the teams UI.. so it's not that after all?
  400. nephele Anyhow: I still don't think there is any good way to implement this UI way in the chat, but i don't see why it would have to go for the status stuff
  401. Zash Pretty sure retraction (what you call redaction) aka XEP-0424 is supported by some clients, I think the Tigase ones maybe?
  402. lovetox then i misunsterstood
  403. Zash While XEP-0425 is about moderator-invoked message redaction
  404. lovetox but mood is not your status
  405. lovetox status is one thing where people put in there mood, and then there is the mood xep which puts it at another place
  406. lovetox so oyu have 2 places where you can publish that
  407. lovetox and thats ... nobody needs it
  408. nephele Zash: Neat, I'll add that to my list of stuff to implement
  409. nephele lovetox: In theory having a selector for emotions could be funky, but every such thing lives and dies with the UI :) I wonder if it would have gotten more exposure or more useage if the UI was any better
  410. nephele Maybe XMPP will get more of that stuff the discord api uses to display ingame status, hmm.
  411. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0196.html
  412. lovetox for what, people dont care about the protocol, there is a textfield and an emoji chooser, every client has that
  413. lovetox so put in your mood in textform and if you want add 20 emojis
  414. Zash 2006 called, but you couldn't answer because you only support Jingle+WebRTC
  415. lovetox every client can do this now, without any XEP
  416. jubalh has left
  417. nephele I defy you on the grounds that Renga has no emoji picker :P
  418. qy > lovetox wrote: > so put in your mood in textform and if you want add 20 emojis 👌
  419. qy ^ Look, a reaction!
  420. lovetox ah that reminds me, we even have that reactions xep somewhere
  421. nephele Anyhow: The custom status message does work for this case indeed. But it's not the same as publishing game status
  422. larma https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0444.html
  423. Zash Hamming distance("reaction", "retraction") 😕
  424. Sam That reaction generates the same alert as any other message and demands my attention. Lots of identical ones will also take up a lot of vertical screen space and be confusing as opposed to "👌 2+" or whatever on the message which won't necessarily generate an alert or anything because clients know it's less important than a real message.
  425. nephele as for the other things the activity stuff had... I honestly don't know anyone who spends enough time infront of their chat client that they need to set and unset a status of showering or making breakfast :)
  426. Zash qy: What did you do?!
  427. nephele Sam: In matrix that was my only real reason to support reactions aswell, it gives people an outlet for their smappy messages and i can more easily ignore them :D
  428. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/4fv4DtV65v71aOW1wYUoDCLE/2ea95475-2d23-49e7-ba1c-c77de16d54f9.png
  429. qy Haha
  430. Sam Yah, when GitHub added reactions the number of "+1" emails I got went down *drastically* (note that it did not eliminate them, but I probably get 1 a week instead of dozens every day)
  431. nephele Zash: why does your client not display my avatar?
  432. Zash 🤷️
  433. qy Mine doesnt either
  434. nephele Ah... I see the "ressource" of my account for the iOS client has leaked my device name also... that's cool...
  435. Zash mutters something about using resources for device identity instead of temporary random session identifiers
  436. qy Ressource?
  437. Zash qy, localpart@hostpart/resourcepart ?
  438. nephele Not sure what the thing is called exactly, the part after the slash of the bare jid
  439. qy oh, leaked privately
  440. Martin Resource in englisch, Ressource in german…
  441. qy I thought you meant here
  442. Zash Reßource?
  443. Sam huh, that's new "New OpenPGP messages found" and then if I hit decrypt it goes away but also I can't see any new messages or anything, congrats to whomever broke this chat :)
  444. qy Hahaha
  445. qy Sorry
  446. Martin Reßørce…
  447. jgart has joined
  448. nephele If you put RTL unicode chars into the iOS device name apple will send emails with the device name with it included and mess up the rendering... but then again I'm only messing up my own emails with such shenanigans
  449. nephele but maybe I can inject trash into the ressource siskin uses that way, hehe
  450. nephele qy: Isn't that visible generally? Atleast in the buddy list I can see the ressource of other peopls devices
  451. qy Yeah, but not to us
  452. qy Muc hides jids
  453. qy So unless you add me, i cant see it
  454. nephele I see. For most people Here I do see avatars, I'm wondering if there is some configuration thing on my end that makes my avatar not shared or something
  455. qy I can differentiate devices on weechat, but only by abusing caps identifiers
  456. nephele Well, I can't find anything in Gajim about sharing avatars if that is the reason. Oh well
  457. mac has left
  458. Zash Server? Config?
  459. nephele No Idea, I'd have to ask what server it is :)
  460. Zash Gajim version?
  461. nephele 1.3.3
  462. Zash Did this thing exist then?
  463. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/QO8Ym6mEk4GGpYq2wG_lJhVB/4713a6eb-59db-407c-9d6a-b4c746f1928d.png
  464. nephele Uhh, I don't see any material style buttons anywhere?
  465. Zash That may just be my theme.
  466. Zash Accounts → Profile anyways
  467. emus has left
  468. jubalh has joined
  469. qy Back to the embeds discussion, why was what i currently do wrong again? If i want to embed something for everything and C, i just send url only, otherwise, if body != url, sensible clients will show embed and body, and C will at least show the full body
  470. qy Isn't that best?
  471. nephele ... How is that different to the account settings? No wonder I didn't find it
  472. nephele Anyhow, supposedly it is now shared :D
  473. Zash I'm on the bleeding edge git version, lots of new stuff and I don't remember when this thing was introduced
  474. nephele Well, I would test but then I don't know if my feedback is that usefull, I don't understand how to use it in the released version either *shrug*
  475. nephele Like how there is two lists of chats and I have to move every chat back to the other list on start... it feels like i'm using it wrong, but i have no idea what I'm supposed to do instead
  476. Zash Looks like your profile picture should be visible now. You might have to poke the status setting or leave and join to make it show for everyone
  477. thomaslewis has joined
  478. thomaslewis has left
  479. thomaslewis has joined
  480. qy I see it
  481. thomaslewis has left
  482. xecks has joined
  483. sonny has left
  484. goffi has left
  485. pulkomandy has left
  486. pulkomandy has joined
  487. sonny has joined
  488. me9 has left
  489. me9 has joined
  490. Sam What is a good set of XMPP features to group SASL EXTERNAL with? I thought about making an "auth" package, but pretty much only EXTERNAL would be in it (since other SASL stuff is already implemented elsewhere), or maybe an "s2s" package (where bidi lives) but EXTERNAL isn't just used for s2s (even if it mostly is)… no idea where to put this.
  491. Sam Maybe I could have some sort of "security" package, I expect that would have other things in it eventually.
  492. Zash Where's the TLS stuff? Why isn't the other SASL stuff in an "auth" package?
  493. Sam Other SASL stuff isn't XMPP specific (whereas EXTERNAL checks the xmpp_address fields and what not) so it lives in the sasl library already
  494. Sam TLS stuff is in the "dialer" package with all the connection options
  495. Zash Is client cert auth (for actual clients) a thing considered?
  496. Zash Maybe split the EXTERNAL stuff into something generic that takes a callback or somesuch that does the specific certificate validation?
  497. Sam I guess I could upstream something like that into the SASL library, but it would be the same problem (where does this callback belong for users to find it easily?)
  498. Sam But yah, this validates both clients and servers
  499. Sam Oh, I lied too, direct TLS is just an option on the dialer, but StartTLS just lives in the base "xmpp" package for <reasons>. Too late to move it now though either way.
  500. Sam I feel like I've been thinking about this on and off for a long time; no idea where users would expect to find this functionality though. Maybe it's an indication that I grouped things badly from the get-go.
  501. COM8 has joined
  502. COM8 has left
  503. Zash API design is hard :)
  504. Zash Isn't SASL EXTERNAL used by email and IRC?
  505. Sam Yes, but it's so generic as to be almost meaningless to call them the same thing. "Validate some other external thing" is the extent of the definition. XMPP's validation will be very different from emails, most likely.
  506. Sam For all you know from the name it's validating ipsec instead of TLS, both are suggested implementations by the RFC IIRC :)
  507. debacle has left
  508. Zash Is this client or server side btw? Or both?
  509. Zash Wouldn't any SASL method have some way to hook it up with something that verifies the credentials?
  510. Sam Both. Sure, this has that
  511. Sam I'm just saying, that's why it's in the XMPP package, almost all the code is very XMPP specific.
  512. Zash Things using channel bindings would also depend on the state of the TLS session, so maybe there's common ground there to design an API around?
  513. Sam in an XMPP library, not the upstream SASL library I mean.
  514. Sam Hmm, good idea, I hadn't thought of that
  515. Zash And validating a TLS certificate should already support some variations to account for different procedures in different protocols
  516. Sam Right now the channel binding support is just built into the SCRAM mechanisms in the upstream SASL library, but if I added a way to select between them or something that would potentially be a candidate to go in whatever this new package is called
  517. Sam Maybe I'll have a "security" or "auth" package then that includes both EXTERNAL and eventually a mechanism for selecting channel bindings if that ever becomes a thing; at least I'd know there's one other thing in the future so I don't end up with a single package with one tiny thing in it
  518. mac has joined
  519. Sam Thanks; feels like that's the first progress I've made towards a decision in a while, gotta think about that a bit.
  520. Zash np :)
  521. Yagizа has left
  522. xnamed has left
  523. qy Yeah im gonna leave my embeds system as is
  524. qy Not sure anything else is an improvement
  525. larma has left
  526. mac has left
  527. lovetox has left
  528. mac has joined
  529. marmistrz has joined
  530. goffi has joined
  531. lovetox has joined
  532. x51 has left
  533. goffi has left
  534. marmistrz has left
  535. wurstsalat has left
  536. Pete has left
  537. Pete has joined
  538. xnamed has joined
  539. wurstsalat has joined
  540. goffi has joined
  541. larma has joined
  542. Kev has left
  543. Kev has joined
  544. goffi has left
  545. marmistrz has joined
  546. edhelas has left
  547. edhelas has joined
  548. goffi has joined
  549. 9lakes has left
  550. thomaslewis has joined
  551. thomaslewis has left
  552. xnamed has left
  553. xnamed has joined
  554. 9lakes has joined
  555. Neustradamus has joined
  556. Neustradamus has left
  557. xecks has left
  558. xecks has joined
  559. Neustradamus has joined
  560. marmistrz has left
  561. Kev has left
  562. Kev has joined
  563. Link Mauve lovetox, have you thought about suggesting to deprecate User Mood and User Activity as specifications?
  564. Link Mauve “19:12:21 nephele> I don't suppose xmpp has an equivalent to a redaction request?”, XEP-0424?
  565. Link Mauve That’s for your own messages.
  566. Kev has left
  567. Kev has joined
  568. jubalh has left
  569. qrpnxz has left
  570. PapaTutuWawa has left
  571. emus has joined
  572. pulkomandy has left
  573. pulkomandy has joined
  574. pasdesushi has left
  575. Kev has left
  576. Kev has joined
  577. nephele has left
  578. goffi has left
  579. pulkomandy has left
  580. sonny has left
  581. sonny has joined
  582. pulkomandy has joined
  583. Kev has left
  584. Kev has joined
  585. goffi has joined
  586. homebeach has left
  587. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  588. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  589. homebeach has joined
  590. marc0s has left
  591. marc0s has joined
  592. marc0s has left
  593. marc0s has joined
  594. nephele has joined
  595. nephele has left
  596. jubalh has joined
  597. Kev has left
  598. Kev has joined
  599. homebeach has left
  600. Matrix Traveler (bot) has left
  601. Matrix Traveler (bot) has joined
  602. homebeach has joined
  603. debacle has joined
  604. Vaulor has left
  605. Vaulor has joined
  606. lovetox_ has joined
  607. lovetox_ has left
  608. lovetox_ has joined
  609. lovetox_ has left
  610. huhn has left
  611. nephele has joined
  612. nephele has left
  613. marc0s has left
  614. marc0s has joined
  615. thomaslewis has joined
  616. thomaslewis has left
  617. me9 has left
  618. rafasaurus has left
  619. thomaslewis has joined
  620. rafasaurus has joined
  621. thomaslewis has left
  622. msavoritias has left
  623. atomicwatch has left
  624. thomaslewis has joined
  625. thomaslewis has left
  626. wurstsalat has left
  627. thomaslewis has joined
  628. sonny has left
  629. sonny has joined
  630. larma has left
  631. rafasaurus has left
  632. rafasaurus has joined
  633. emus has left