jdev - 2022-02-10

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  264. Sam

    There was a discussion in another room earlier about bookmarks support so I asked around and made a summary of current support for the various specs people are using. Here it is, if anyone else is interested: https://mellium.im/issue/258

  265. Sam

    TL;DR please go update your servers to support the PEP Native Bookmarks conversion, it's very low right now and having every client implement 3 specs and all in slightly different ways is going to make the upgrade path difficult.

  266. Link Mauve

    Sam, are you aware of this documentation btw? https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/groupchat/#bookmarks

  267. Sam

    I was not, thank you!

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  269. Zash

    Prosody 0.12 (Soon™) will ship with it included and most likely enabled by default. How fare the other servers?

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  272. Sam

    Ejabberd has no support, as far as I can tell

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  275. Sam

    (those are the only two I looked into since I assume the vast majority of services use one of those two and the other servers will likely follow suit)

  276. Link Mauve

    Sam, note that the upgrade thingy isn’t about converting from old to new, it is about exposing all three protocols to access a single data store.

  277. Sam

    Also Tigase presumably supports it since their clients only use PEP Native

  278. Link Mauve

    So when you modify one using one client, it gets broadcasted to all other resources.

  279. Sam


  280. Link Mauve

    Still an important distinction I think, which “conversion” doesn’t convey.

  281. Sam

    I'd be very curious to see what happens to the compliance checker if prosody 0.12 is released; I suspect it would be a pretty big bump.

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  284. Zash

    FWIW mod_bookmarks in Prosody does both XEP-0402 conversion and XEP-0411 conversions, in the same module.

  285. Link Mauve

    Sam, nah, all of the Debian users will only use it five years later when the current distribution becomes oldoldstable.

  286. Sam

    Fair point.

  287. Zash

    Link Mauve, outch

  288. Zash

    Don't remind me about the oldoldoldstable users

  289. Link Mauve sings in ArchLinux servers~

  290. Sam

    That sort of thing might be addressable though; eg. we could ask Debian to include the module by default and ask large services to upgrade

  291. Link Mauve

    Debian doesn’t touch existing releases, except for very important security issues..

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  296. Link Mauve

    Debian doesn’t touch existing releases, except for very important security issues.

  297. Zash

    and backports

  298. Zash

    modulo backports

  299. Link Mauve

    Which approximately nobody uses.

  300. Sam

    backports is what I was thinking

  301. Zash

    Appropriately nobody uses XMPP to begin with, so surely a lot of those use backports too! 😀

  302. Sam

    But yah, I have no idea how widespread debian is or how widespread backports is in there. May or may not be an issue.

  303. Zash

    Link Mauve, also, [citation needed]

  304. Sam

    Is anyone aware of any clients other than converse.js that *only* support Bookmarks v1.1 and not PEP Native or Private XML?

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  306. Link Mauve

    Movim used to do that, so its older versions.

  307. Sam

    I assume web stuff gets updated fast, so unless that's wide spread that's probably fine

  308. Sam

    I'm torn. I don't want to implement yet another thing just for one client, but I feel like web stuff is important to retain compatibility with

  309. Zash

    Tell that to Electron apps installed into /opt

  310. Link Mauve

    Sam, my recommendation on modernxmpp was based on client support btw.

  311. Link Mauve

    Sam, Converse is often combined with Prosody, which will soon have mod_bookmarks enabled.

  312. Sam

    *nods* I came to a similar conclusion. Although for other reasons I want to implement privatexml based stuff even less because I have basic pep/pubsub and it's somewhat re-usable, but don't have any private XML and it would require a lot more boilerplate work

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  314. Link Mauve

    So I stand by my recommendation in modernxmpp. :)

  315. Link Mauve

    Maybe in a few years we can fully deprecate Private XML.

  316. Link Mauve

    Maybe in a few decades we can fully deprecate Private XML.

  317. Zash

    There was the idea of just translating it server-side to XEP-0223

  318. Link Mauve

    Yay for a fourth storage method!

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  353. nephele

    is pep native the bookmarks 2 stuff or is that yet something else?

  354. Link Mauve

    Yes, it is that one.

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  356. Link Mauve

    It got renamed when it got made Stable IIRC.

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  360. nephele

    still no dark mode for modern xmpp :(

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  366. moparisthebest

    nephele, what do you mean ?

  367. Link Mauve

    moparisthebest, when the browser requests a dark theme, modernxmpp still serves light CSS.

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  369. Zash

    patches welcome?

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  371. Link Mauve

    IIRC I already experimented once.

  372. Link Mauve

    Or maybe it was for prosody.im?

  373. Zash


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