jdev - 2022-05-12

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  38. Stefan

    larma: I think I will be there.

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  131. deuill

    Hey all, I've got a bit of an open-ended question -- I'm working on building a gateway for legacy protocols (the rocks on which many a ships have found their final resting place) specific to XMPP, and am wondering what the best JID schema might be. This will allow for running multiple gateways on the same component, so there needs to be some way of differentiating between "legacy" protocols.

  132. Ge0rG

    deuill: is there a real need for running different protocols on the same component domain?

  133. Ge0rG

    There is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0106.html but it has mixed client support

  134. deuill

    Mainly ease-of-deployment and other such operational concerns -- I don't want to have to deploy multiple versions of essentially the same binary just to get separate components.

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  136. Ge0rG

    my gut feeling is that having one domain per legacy protocol would be the cleaner design, probably at least with dedicated config files

  137. deuill

    Well, that's not 100% true -- I can have the same deployment bind/be exposed on separate DNS domains, which might do the trick.

  138. Ge0rG

    deuill: does it have to be reachable via s2s?

  139. Ge0rG

    a component will be running behind an xmpp server anyway, and you can use SRV records to reach all the domains on one IP/actual hostname

  140. deuill

    For my uses, it would be a component running somewhere locally (resolvable only by the XMPP server)

  141. Ge0rG

    in that case you don't need anything but local TCP ports

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  143. deuill

    Indeed yeah, though you would need DNS/host entries for this kind of multi-domain approach.

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  145. deuill

    (I'm running stuff under Podman, which does DNS resolution for containers joined in the same network, but which makes adding arbitrary network aliases somewhat harder)

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  148. deuill

    There's basically three reasonable choices, in my mind: - Use a separate domain part for each protocol, and use the local part for the "legacy" protocol user name, e.g. `someuser@skype.gateway.example.com`. - Use the same domain part, but splice "legacy" network and user names in the local part, e.g. `someuser%skype@gateway.example.com` - Use the same domain part, set the local part to the "legacy" network name, and use the resource part for the user name, e.g. `skype@gateway.example.com/someuser`.

  149. deuill

    For me, the latter of the three is cleaner since you mostly don't need JID escaping, and it makes operationalization somewhat simpler -- however I'm wondering if this is abuse of the resource part that might end up causing issues?

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  151. Ge0rG

    deuill: you don't need any DNS for only-locally-reachable components, see eg. https://prosody.im/doc/components

  152. Ge0rG &

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  155. deuill

    Hmmm the main issue with using SRV records, in my case, is that components are registered against Prosody automatically as they come up (and using the hostnames Podman gives you works automatically). This is sort of a tangent, however, and likely specific to how I've got Prosody set up.

  156. MattJ

    deuill, also I didn't see this pointed out yet, but one binary can still serve multiple domains

  157. MattJ

    One process, even

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  161. deuill

    This would depend on the domain part of the JID resolving to the same host, right? Which means you either need SRV records to that effect, or (local) DNS should resolve correctly.

  162. deuill

    Apart from JID escaping concerns with using the local part for the legacy username, I think the separate domain part setup looks cleaner, though having to wrangle with DNS is definitely not the favourite part of my day...

  163. Zash

    Bit late but it would have been nice if addressing used URIs

  164. deuill

    Like, a hierarchical scheme?

  165. Zash

    Like `<message to="mailto:whoever@example.com"/>`

  166. deuill

    Ah where the legacy protocol is part of the URI scheme

  167. deuill

    Yeah that'd be cool as well.

  168. MattJ

    deuill, also note that the DNS part is only needed if you want to serve the gateways to users on other servers. Which is sometimes the case, but often not.

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  171. deuill

    Oh, wait, I think I've misunderstood how this works -- the XMPP server knows to route traffic to a specific component by domain part because of how components register against the XMPP server -- the domain part doesn't have to be a valid, resolvable DNS name from the perspective of the XMPP server, right?

  172. MattJ


  173. deuill

    Then the subdomain scheme is viable, though I still don't like needing to potentially escape legacy usernames in the local part...

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  175. deuill

    Using the resource part feels... risky, though, as my impression is that it's typically expected that you can message a bare JID across resources and get a reasonable result.

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  180. MattJ

    You can't subscribe to the presence of full JIDs, which limits the usefulness of using the resource to identify users

  181. MattJ

    If someone added that JID to their roster, the subscribe would go to the bare JID

  182. MattJ

    and if multiple resources responded as online, they would be shown as a single contact in clients

  183. MattJ

    So it's definitely going against the way things would be expected to work

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  186. deuill

    That's great context, thanks Matt! Reading the JID RFC made it look like a viable option (as far as not bending semantics goes), but it's great to have confirmation of the gut feeling here.

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  188. MattJ

    JID escaping should be performed, ideally, automatically by clients. The gateway can also offer a helper protocol to perform JID translation: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0100.html#addressing-iqgateway

  189. MattJ

    (you can probably ignore most of the rest of XEP-0100 though)

  190. deuill

    Hmmm *that's* what Ge0rG meant -- apologies for misreading that.

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  202. Mx2

    Its possible that a client in an open muc get stanzas to send the complete contact list?

  203. Mx2

    To anyone who make the request?

  204. Mx2

    (If the server just relay data or does some processing, or its client related)

  205. jonas’

    I don't understand the question

  206. Mx2

    What exactly

  207. Mx2

    I am in an open muc

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  210. Mx2

    And send XML commands to someone else, to get information about his client

  211. Mx2

    Is the server involved or just relays the stream?

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  214. Zash

    Servers relay stanzas.

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  225. Mx2

    Even malformed?

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  227. flow

    depends on the kind fo malformedness

  228. flow

    and on the server

  229. pep.

    `skype@gateway/user` will only appear as one participant in MUC (single barejid) and you'll have a hard time talking to fulljids in 1:1 with popular clients, most address only the barejid nowadays.

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  231. pep.

    (Catching up on logs)

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  250. deuill

    Indeed yeah, I think the way I'll go is protocol name is in the domain-part, and legacy username is in the local part, and maybe if there's multiple dimensions to care about (such as IRC server) I'll do as biboumi does and either use an allowed character (such as `%`) or just rely on JID escaping.

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  253. deuill

    Another semi-relevant question: assuming a VirtualHost of `example.chat`, service discovery only works automatically for components that are direct subdomains, e.g. `irc.example.chat`, but not anything under that, e.g. `irc.gateway.example.chat`, right?

  254. deuill

    Not sure if the behaviour here is server-specific, but I'm on Prosody 0.12 if that counts.

  255. Zash


  256. Zash

    Nothing stops the server from adding whatever items it wishes to the listing it returns to the client.

  257. deuill

    Indeed yeah, I'm trying to think which JID schema helps with operationalizing this without too much faff

  258. deuill

    As the component needs to parse the domain part somehow to derive the legacy protocol name

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  260. deuill

    So whatever is commonly accepted use-case (and it seems that components that are direct subdomains is one of these things) would probably be the best way to go

  261. deuill

    I'll pick this thread up in the Prosody room and read ejabberd docs

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