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lovetox
hm is it allowed to store full jids in the roster?
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lovetox
makes not alot of sense for me, but do i need to expect that?
15:54:28
Ge0rG
lovetox: it's not allowed
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lovetox
hm i dont find it in the rfc
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lovetox
its not mentioned in the description of the JID attribute
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Ge0rG
Yeah, I was surprised as well. Not sure if there is something about that in the presence management section
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flow
not explicitly forbidden IIRC
16:02:42
Zash
Yeah, iirc it says that presence management is done with bare JIDs
16:03:26
lovetox
Zash would prosody allow if i push a jid with a resource?
16:03:29
lovetox
or throw an error
16:03:33
Zash
:shrug:
16:03:41
flow
that said, full (domain) JIDs in roster is probably something to consider forbidding in XMPP 2.0
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flow
and in general, everytime a spec says "put JID here" it should explicitly mention which jid types are allowed
16:04:25
MattJ
lovetox, it's likely to either error or silently strip the resource, but I haven't tested
16:05:30
Zash
Looking at the code, looks like it'll return modify, bad-request
16:05:54
flow
+1 for the return-error behavior
16:06:05
lovetox
ok so, if i silently skip full jids in a roster and just log a warning, i dont break some stuff
16:06:17
lovetox
then i will add that
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flow
lovetox, why not show the roster entries but forbid adding full jid roster entries?
16:08:34
lovetox
of course Gajim does not add full roster jids, its about what other servers and clients do, and what Gajim receives and how to deal with it
16:08:48
lovetox
i dont know what you mean with "show the roster entry"
16:08:56
lovetox
what exactly should i show in case of a full jid?
16:09:06
lovetox
treat it as a bare jid?
16:09:14
flow
lovetox, no simply show the full jid
16:09:18
flow
where you would normall show the bare jid ✎
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flow
where you would normally show the bare jid ✏
16:10:21
flow
why "skip full jids" in roster if you have allready received them? couldn't you just show the full-jid roster item as any other item?
16:10:55
lovetox
the jid is not just metadata text, its a roster item object in my application, the jid is important, its a object a lot of code operates with, it cant just be sometimes a full jid and sometimes a bare jid, otherwise i need to change all my code to expect both
16:11:28
flow
ok
16:17:31
pep.
Is there a use-case for a fulljid in the roster?
16:17:56
pep.
(explicitely not asking if it's allowed)
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flow
not the I am aware of, the best I could came up with ad-hoc is a contrived case where something puts a full jid in the roster and uses pubsub roster access model
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flow
but such an approach appears insecure in the first place
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pep.
Well for example when using biboumi we're encouraged to add users in our roster. It's still a barejid (user%network@gateway) but I could see gateways doing this as well with a lesser format? (such as discussed here a few days ago) :/
16:38:31
pep.
Even though gateway-interaction stuff is probably better
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flow
lesser format?
16:53:55
pep.
Something like skype@component/user was mentioned
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lovetox
does anyone know, is it possible to PM contacts on irc via biboumi?
17:53:34
pep.
Yeah it is
17:53:38
pep.
Or it was at least
17:54:36
moparisthebest
lovetox, yea their bare JID is username%irc.whatever.com@yourbiboumi
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lovetox
yeah its super weird
18:06:20
lovetox
so actually you cannot pm someone
18:06:32
lovetox
not in the xmpp pm way
18:06:51
Zash
Hm?
18:07:06
lovetox
its just like a non-anon chat
18:07:12
lovetox
where every user has a real id ✎
18:07:13
Zash
Pretty sure Biboumi handles #chan%irc.example/nickname too
18:07:14
lovetox
where every user has a real jid ✏
18:07:40
Zash
and/or exposes "real" JIDs of the user%irc.net@biboumi shape
18:07:52
lovetox
ah but gajim prefers the real one
18:07:54
Zash
MUC PMs are weird anyway, doesn't everyone agree on that?
18:09:29
moparisthebest
yea looks like they are non-anonymous MUCs so if you "PM" someone you just get the real JID
18:16:03
lovetox
it gets weirder
18:16:10
lovetox
if i write to the resource
18:16:18
Zash
"and then it got weirder"
18:16:23
Zash
story of XMPP? 🙂
18:16:24
lovetox
biboumi seems to translate that and sends it from the user acc
18:16:44
lovetox
so actually if send to the resource, you never get an answer
18:16:49
pep.
Yeah I uess the weird thing is that there's no way to go from one to the other in clients
18:16:52
lovetox
or you do but form another jid
18:17:06
Zash
not?
18:17:24
Zash
I guess Biboumi would have to remember which channel you PM'd via since that info doesn't exist in IRC
18:17:42
Zash
And that's where I said "haha nope" and never touched IRC ever again
18:17:59
pep.
Does biboumi give us the realjid when talking to the PM-jid?
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pep.
Is there a way to know a make the change in the client ourselves
18:18:43
pep.
Presence isn't a thing also so..
18:18:58
pep.
Or is it
18:19:38
pep.
Not even talking about biboumi, is that doable in MUC. If one wanted to automatically switch to realjids when possible
18:20:25
pep.
Even though in MUC you'd be joined so you would have the info if it's there.
18:22:12
moparisthebest
that info doesn't need to exist because "bob" is the same person in all channels
18:22:43
moparisthebest
just in general in non-anonymous mucs why would you ever message anything *but* the real JID ?
18:22:43
pep.
Well biboumi could tell us somehow
18:22:56
pep.
moparisthebest, because your client allows you to
18:23:15
pep.
Because we're not all XMPP protocol nerds
18:23:17
Zash
Tell us what?
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pep.
Zash, the associated realjid
18:23:47
Zash
That #chan%irc.net@irc.gw/user == user%irc.net@irc.gw ?
18:23:49
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18:23:55
Zash
Didn't we establish that it does that already?
18:24:00
pep.
No, that it's exactly the same thing
18:24:23
Zash
Oh, you want aliases. We don't do aliases here.
18:24:42
pep.
aliases no. That'd be a hint for the client that it can do the switch if it wants to
18:24:51
moparisthebest
pep., I'm saying clients should never allow that, it's silly
18:25:00
moparisthebest
what possible reason would a client have for doing it?
18:25:03
pep.
That is, it can start talking to the realjid instead
18:25:10
Zash
It already can
18:25:19
moparisthebest
ignore biboumi for a second
18:25:28
pep.
It wouldn't know in a generic way
18:25:33
moparisthebest
in non-anonymous mucs, the client knows the real JID, and should only ever send messages to that
18:25:40
moparisthebest
it has this info
18:26:05
lovetox
meh moparisthebest
18:26:14
pep.
Sure, in the meantime, it's a thing
18:26:26
moparisthebest
I don't think so, all my clients already behave like this...
18:26:32
lovetox
i heard people say, they like that conversations are separated that way
18:26:42
pep.
When you get contacted via PM, you generally answer via PM
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18:26:53
lovetox
also if you are admin in an anon room
18:27:00
lovetox
you have the real jid of everyone
18:27:10
pep.
lovetox, yeah but you know it's an anon room
18:27:11
lovetox
but you propbably dont want to message them to the real jid
18:27:57
lovetox
in gajim you can choose if gajim prefers the real jid or not
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pep.
So I guess we "just" need to implement this automatic switch in clients?
18:28:31
pep.
Biboumi already gives us realjid info in MUCs right?
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pep.
It's just weird if one directly contacts a PM-jid
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pep.
Because biboumi makes this possible without being joined, I think?
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lovetox
next question about roster, i guess no client should add a muc to the roster or?
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pep.
lovetox, some want to add MIX rooms to the roster
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lovetox
would it be evident that it is a mix room?
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lovetox
like from receiving the roster
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pep.
You'd need to disco certainly
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lovetox
thats absolutely horrible
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pep.
https://doc.biboumi.louiz.org/user.html#roster biboumi also encourages that
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lovetox
not really
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lovetox
these are JIDs, that support presence
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lovetox
and you dont need to interact with them like a groupchat
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lovetox
so fine by me
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lovetox
the problem for me is, if someone sends me a contact in the roster, and then i need to interact with it as a muc
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pep.
I think it was the only way to do something because the other way was removed, but I don't remember what exactly.. (not useful, I know)
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