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lovetox
hm is it allowed to store full jids in the roster?
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lovetox
makes not alot of sense for me, but do i need to expect that?
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Ge0rG
lovetox: it's not allowed
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lovetox
hm i dont find it in the rfc
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lovetox
its not mentioned in the description of the JID attribute
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Ge0rG
Yeah, I was surprised as well. Not sure if there is something about that in the presence management section
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flow
not explicitly forbidden IIRC
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Zash
Yeah, iirc it says that presence management is done with bare JIDs
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lovetox
Zash would prosody allow if i push a jid with a resource?
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lovetox
or throw an error
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Zash
:shrug:
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flow
that said, full (domain) JIDs in roster is probably something to consider forbidding in XMPP 2.0
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flow
and in general, everytime a spec says "put JID here" it should explicitly mention which jid types are allowed
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MattJ
lovetox, it's likely to either error or silently strip the resource, but I haven't tested
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Zash
Looking at the code, looks like it'll return modify, bad-request
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flow
+1 for the return-error behavior
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lovetox
ok so, if i silently skip full jids in a roster and just log a warning, i dont break some stuff
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lovetox
then i will add that
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flow
lovetox, why not show the roster entries but forbid adding full jid roster entries?
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lovetox
of course Gajim does not add full roster jids, its about what other servers and clients do, and what Gajim receives and how to deal with it
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lovetox
i dont know what you mean with "show the roster entry"
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lovetox
what exactly should i show in case of a full jid?
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lovetox
treat it as a bare jid?
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flow
lovetox, no simply show the full jid
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flow
where you would normall show the bare jid✎ -
flow
where you would normally show the bare jid ✏
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flow
why "skip full jids" in roster if you have allready received them? couldn't you just show the full-jid roster item as any other item?
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lovetox
the jid is not just metadata text, its a roster item object in my application, the jid is important, its a object a lot of code operates with, it cant just be sometimes a full jid and sometimes a bare jid, otherwise i need to change all my code to expect both
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flow
ok
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pep.
Is there a use-case for a fulljid in the roster?
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pep.
(explicitely not asking if it's allowed)
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flow
not the I am aware of, the best I could came up with ad-hoc is a contrived case where something puts a full jid in the roster and uses pubsub roster access model
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flow
but such an approach appears insecure in the first place
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pep.
Well for example when using biboumi we're encouraged to add users in our roster. It's still a barejid (user%network@gateway) but I could see gateways doing this as well with a lesser format? (such as discussed here a few days ago) :/
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pep.
Even though gateway-interaction stuff is probably better
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flow
lesser format?
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pep.
Something like skype@component/user was mentioned
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lovetox
does anyone know, is it possible to PM contacts on irc via biboumi?
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pep.
Yeah it is
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pep.
Or it was at least
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moparisthebest
lovetox, yea their bare JID is username%irc.whatever.com@yourbiboumi
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lovetox
yeah its super weird
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lovetox
so actually you cannot pm someone
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lovetox
not in the xmpp pm way
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Zash
Hm?
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lovetox
its just like a non-anon chat
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lovetox
where every user has a real id✎ -
Zash
Pretty sure Biboumi handles #chan%irc.example/nickname too
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lovetox
where every user has a real jid ✏
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Zash
and/or exposes "real" JIDs of the user%irc.net@biboumi shape
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lovetox
ah but gajim prefers the real one
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Zash
MUC PMs are weird anyway, doesn't everyone agree on that?
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moparisthebest
yea looks like they are non-anonymous MUCs so if you "PM" someone you just get the real JID
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lovetox
it gets weirder
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lovetox
if i write to the resource
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Zash
"and then it got weirder"
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Zash
story of XMPP? 🙂
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lovetox
biboumi seems to translate that and sends it from the user acc
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lovetox
so actually if send to the resource, you never get an answer
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pep.
Yeah I uess the weird thing is that there's no way to go from one to the other in clients
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lovetox
or you do but form another jid
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Zash
not?
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Zash
I guess Biboumi would have to remember which channel you PM'd via since that info doesn't exist in IRC
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Zash
And that's where I said "haha nope" and never touched IRC ever again
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pep.
Does biboumi give us the realjid when talking to the PM-jid?
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pep.
Is there a way to know a make the change in the client ourselves
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pep.
Presence isn't a thing also so..
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pep.
Or is it
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pep.
Not even talking about biboumi, is that doable in MUC. If one wanted to automatically switch to realjids when possible
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pep.
Even though in MUC you'd be joined so you would have the info if it's there.
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moparisthebest
that info doesn't need to exist because "bob" is the same person in all channels
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moparisthebest
just in general in non-anonymous mucs why would you ever message anything *but* the real JID ?
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pep.
Well biboumi could tell us somehow
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pep.
moparisthebest, because your client allows you to
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pep.
Because we're not all XMPP protocol nerds
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Zash
Tell us what?
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pep.
Zash, the associated realjid
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Zash
That #chan%irc.net@irc.gw/user == user%irc.net@irc.gw ?
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Zash
Didn't we establish that it does that already?
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pep.
No, that it's exactly the same thing
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Zash
Oh, you want aliases. We don't do aliases here.
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pep.
aliases no. That'd be a hint for the client that it can do the switch if it wants to
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moparisthebest
pep., I'm saying clients should never allow that, it's silly
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moparisthebest
what possible reason would a client have for doing it?
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pep.
That is, it can start talking to the realjid instead
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Zash
It already can
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moparisthebest
ignore biboumi for a second
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pep.
It wouldn't know in a generic way
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moparisthebest
in non-anonymous mucs, the client knows the real JID, and should only ever send messages to that
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moparisthebest
it has this info
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lovetox
meh moparisthebest
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pep.
Sure, in the meantime, it's a thing
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moparisthebest
I don't think so, all my clients already behave like this...
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lovetox
i heard people say, they like that conversations are separated that way
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pep.
When you get contacted via PM, you generally answer via PM
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lovetox
also if you are admin in an anon room
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lovetox
you have the real jid of everyone
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pep.
lovetox, yeah but you know it's an anon room
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lovetox
but you propbably dont want to message them to the real jid
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lovetox
in gajim you can choose if gajim prefers the real jid or not
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pep.
So I guess we "just" need to implement this automatic switch in clients?
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pep.
Biboumi already gives us realjid info in MUCs right?
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pep.
It's just weird if one directly contacts a PM-jid
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pep.
Because biboumi makes this possible without being joined, I think?
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lovetox
next question about roster, i guess no client should add a muc to the roster or?
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pep.
lovetox, some want to add MIX rooms to the roster
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lovetox
would it be evident that it is a mix room?
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lovetox
like from receiving the roster
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pep.
You'd need to disco certainly
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lovetox
thats absolutely horrible
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pep.
https://doc.biboumi.louiz.org/user.html#roster biboumi also encourages that
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lovetox
not really
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lovetox
these are JIDs, that support presence
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lovetox
and you dont need to interact with them like a groupchat
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lovetox
so fine by me
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lovetox
the problem for me is, if someone sends me a contact in the roster, and then i need to interact with it as a muc
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pep.
I think it was the only way to do something because the other way was removed, but I don't remember what exactly.. (not useful, I know)