jdev - 2022-05-16

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  270. lovetox hm is it allowed to store full jids in the roster?
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  275. lovetox makes not alot of sense for me, but do i need to expect that?
  276. Ge0rG lovetox: it's not allowed
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  279. lovetox hm i dont find it in the rfc
  280. lovetox its not mentioned in the description of the JID attribute
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  282. Ge0rG Yeah, I was surprised as well. Not sure if there is something about that in the presence management section
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  286. flow not explicitly forbidden IIRC
  287. Zash Yeah, iirc it says that presence management is done with bare JIDs
  288. lovetox Zash would prosody allow if i push a jid with a resource?
  289. lovetox or throw an error
  290. Zash :shrug:
  291. flow that said, full (domain) JIDs in roster is probably something to consider forbidding in XMPP 2.0
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  293. flow and in general, everytime a spec says "put JID here" it should explicitly mention which jid types are allowed
  294. MattJ lovetox, it's likely to either error or silently strip the resource, but I haven't tested
  295. Zash Looking at the code, looks like it'll return modify, bad-request
  296. flow +1 for the return-error behavior
  297. lovetox ok so, if i silently skip full jids in a roster and just log a warning, i dont break some stuff
  298. lovetox then i will add that
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  303. flow lovetox, why not show the roster entries but forbid adding full jid roster entries?
  304. lovetox of course Gajim does not add full roster jids, its about what other servers and clients do, and what Gajim receives and how to deal with it
  305. lovetox i dont know what you mean with "show the roster entry"
  306. lovetox what exactly should i show in case of a full jid?
  307. lovetox treat it as a bare jid?
  308. flow lovetox, no simply show the full jid
  309. flow where you would normall show the bare jid ✎
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  311. flow where you would normally show the bare jid ✏
  312. flow why "skip full jids" in roster if you have allready received them? couldn't you just show the full-jid roster item as any other item?
  313. lovetox the jid is not just metadata text, its a roster item object in my application, the jid is important, its a object a lot of code operates with, it cant just be sometimes a full jid and sometimes a bare jid, otherwise i need to change all my code to expect both
  314. flow ok
  315. pep. Is there a use-case for a fulljid in the roster?
  316. pep. (explicitely not asking if it's allowed)
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  327. flow not the I am aware of, the best I could came up with ad-hoc is a contrived case where something puts a full jid in the roster and uses pubsub roster access model
  328. flow but such an approach appears insecure in the first place
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  333. pep. Well for example when using biboumi we're encouraged to add users in our roster. It's still a barejid (user%network@gateway) but I could see gateways doing this as well with a lesser format? (such as discussed here a few days ago) :/
  334. pep. Even though gateway-interaction stuff is probably better
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  338. flow lesser format?
  339. pep. Something like skype@component/user was mentioned
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  356. lovetox does anyone know, is it possible to PM contacts on irc via biboumi?
  357. pep. Yeah it is
  358. pep. Or it was at least
  359. moparisthebest lovetox, yea their bare JID is username%irc.whatever.com@yourbiboumi
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  365. lovetox yeah its super weird
  366. lovetox so actually you cannot pm someone
  367. lovetox not in the xmpp pm way
  368. Zash Hm?
  369. lovetox its just like a non-anon chat
  370. lovetox where every user has a real id ✎
  371. Zash Pretty sure Biboumi handles #chan%irc.example/nickname too
  372. lovetox where every user has a real jid ✏
  373. Zash and/or exposes "real" JIDs of the user%irc.net@biboumi shape
  374. lovetox ah but gajim prefers the real one
  375. Zash MUC PMs are weird anyway, doesn't everyone agree on that?
  376. moparisthebest yea looks like they are non-anonymous MUCs so if you "PM" someone you just get the real JID
  377. lovetox it gets weirder
  378. lovetox if i write to the resource
  379. Zash "and then it got weirder"
  380. Zash story of XMPP? 🙂
  381. lovetox biboumi seems to translate that and sends it from the user acc
  382. lovetox so actually if send to the resource, you never get an answer
  383. pep. Yeah I uess the weird thing is that there's no way to go from one to the other in clients
  384. lovetox or you do but form another jid
  385. Zash not?
  386. Zash I guess Biboumi would have to remember which channel you PM'd via since that info doesn't exist in IRC
  387. Zash And that's where I said "haha nope" and never touched IRC ever again
  388. pep. Does biboumi give us the realjid when talking to the PM-jid?
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  390. pep. Is there a way to know a make the change in the client ourselves
  391. pep. Presence isn't a thing also so..
  392. pep. Or is it
  393. pep. Not even talking about biboumi, is that doable in MUC. If one wanted to automatically switch to realjids when possible
  394. pep. Even though in MUC you'd be joined so you would have the info if it's there.
  395. moparisthebest that info doesn't need to exist because "bob" is the same person in all channels
  396. moparisthebest just in general in non-anonymous mucs why would you ever message anything *but* the real JID ?
  397. pep. Well biboumi could tell us somehow
  398. pep. moparisthebest, because your client allows you to
  399. pep. Because we're not all XMPP protocol nerds
  400. Zash Tell us what?
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  402. pep. Zash, the associated realjid
  403. Zash That #chan%irc.net@irc.gw/user == user%irc.net@irc.gw ?
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  405. Zash Didn't we establish that it does that already?
  406. pep. No, that it's exactly the same thing
  407. Zash Oh, you want aliases. We don't do aliases here.
  408. pep. aliases no. That'd be a hint for the client that it can do the switch if it wants to
  409. moparisthebest pep., I'm saying clients should never allow that, it's silly
  410. moparisthebest what possible reason would a client have for doing it?
  411. pep. That is, it can start talking to the realjid instead
  412. Zash It already can
  413. moparisthebest ignore biboumi for a second
  414. pep. It wouldn't know in a generic way
  415. moparisthebest in non-anonymous mucs, the client knows the real JID, and should only ever send messages to that
  416. moparisthebest it has this info
  417. lovetox meh moparisthebest
  418. pep. Sure, in the meantime, it's a thing
  419. moparisthebest I don't think so, all my clients already behave like this...
  420. lovetox i heard people say, they like that conversations are separated that way
  421. pep. When you get contacted via PM, you generally answer via PM
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  423. lovetox also if you are admin in an anon room
  424. lovetox you have the real jid of everyone
  425. pep. lovetox, yeah but you know it's an anon room
  426. lovetox but you propbably dont want to message them to the real jid
  427. lovetox in gajim you can choose if gajim prefers the real jid or not
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  429. pep. So I guess we "just" need to implement this automatic switch in clients?
  430. pep. Biboumi already gives us realjid info in MUCs right?
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  433. pep. It's just weird if one directly contacts a PM-jid
  434. pep. Because biboumi makes this possible without being joined, I think?
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  460. lovetox next question about roster, i guess no client should add a muc to the roster or?
  461. pep. lovetox, some want to add MIX rooms to the roster
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  463. lovetox would it be evident that it is a mix room?
  464. lovetox like from receiving the roster
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  466. pep. You'd need to disco certainly
  467. lovetox thats absolutely horrible
  468. pep. https://doc.biboumi.louiz.org/user.html#roster biboumi also encourages that
  469. lovetox not really
  470. lovetox these are JIDs, that support presence
  471. lovetox and you dont need to interact with them like a groupchat
  472. lovetox so fine by me
  473. lovetox the problem for me is, if someone sends me a contact in the roster, and then i need to interact with it as a muc
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  475. pep. I think it was the only way to do something because the other way was removed, but I don't remember what exactly.. (not useful, I know)
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