jdev - 2022-05-16

hm is it allowed to store full jids in the roster?

makes not alot of sense for me, but do i need to expect that?

lovetox: it's not allowed

hm i dont find it in the rfc

its not mentioned in the description of the JID attribute

Yeah, I was surprised as well. Not sure if there is something about that in the presence management section

not explicitly forbidden IIRC

Yeah, iirc it says that presence management is done with bare JIDs

Zash would prosody allow if i push a jid with a resource?

or throw an error

:shrug:

that said, full (domain) JIDs in roster is probably something to consider forbidding in XMPP 2.0

and in general, everytime a spec says "put JID here" it should explicitly mention which jid types are allowed

lovetox, it's likely to either error or silently strip the resource, but I haven't tested

Looking at the code, looks like it'll return modify, bad-request

+1 for the return-error behavior

ok so, if i silently skip full jids in a roster and just log a warning, i dont break some stuff

then i will add that

lovetox, why not show the roster entries but forbid adding full jid roster entries?

of course Gajim does not add full roster jids, its about what other servers and clients do, and what Gajim receives and how to deal with it

i dont know what you mean with "show the roster entry"

what exactly should i show in case of a full jid?

treat it as a bare jid?

lovetox, no simply show the full jid

where you would normally show the bare jid ✏

why "skip full jids" in roster if you have allready received them? couldn't you just show the full-jid roster item as any other item?

the jid is not just metadata text, its a roster item object in my application, the jid is important, its a object a lot of code operates with, it cant just be sometimes a full jid and sometimes a bare jid, otherwise i need to change all my code to expect both

ok

Is there a use-case for a fulljid in the roster?

(explicitely not asking if it's allowed)

not the I am aware of, the best I could came up with ad-hoc is a contrived case where something puts a full jid in the roster and uses pubsub roster access model

but such an approach appears insecure in the first place

Well for example when using biboumi we're encouraged to add users in our roster. It's still a barejid (user%network@gateway) but I could see gateways doing this as well with a lesser format? (such as discussed here a few days ago) :/

Even though gateway-interaction stuff is probably better

lesser format?

Something like skype@component/user was mentioned

does anyone know, is it possible to PM contacts on irc via biboumi?

Yeah it is

Or it was at least

lovetox, yea their bare JID is username%irc.whatever.com@yourbiboumi

yeah its super weird

so actually you cannot pm someone

not in the xmpp pm way

Hm?

its just like a non-anon chat

Pretty sure Biboumi handles #chan%irc.example/nickname too

where every user has a real jid ✏

and/or exposes "real" JIDs of the user%irc.net@biboumi shape

ah but gajim prefers the real one

MUC PMs are weird anyway, doesn't everyone agree on that?

yea looks like they are non-anonymous MUCs so if you "PM" someone you just get the real JID

it gets weirder

if i write to the resource

"and then it got weirder"

story of XMPP? 🙂

biboumi seems to translate that and sends it from the user acc

so actually if send to the resource, you never get an answer

Yeah I uess the weird thing is that there's no way to go from one to the other in clients

or you do but form another jid

not?

I guess Biboumi would have to remember which channel you PM'd via since that info doesn't exist in IRC

And that's where I said "haha nope" and never touched IRC ever again

Does biboumi give us the realjid when talking to the PM-jid?

Is there a way to know a make the change in the client ourselves

Presence isn't a thing also so..

Or is it

Not even talking about biboumi, is that doable in MUC. If one wanted to automatically switch to realjids when possible

Even though in MUC you'd be joined so you would have the info if it's there.

that info doesn't need to exist because "bob" is the same person in all channels

just in general in non-anonymous mucs why would you ever message anything *but* the real JID ?

Well biboumi could tell us somehow

moparisthebest, because your client allows you to

Because we're not all XMPP protocol nerds

Tell us what?

Zash, the associated realjid

That #chan%irc.net@irc.gw/user == user%irc.net@irc.gw ?

Didn't we establish that it does that already?

No, that it's exactly the same thing

Oh, you want aliases. We don't do aliases here.

aliases no. That'd be a hint for the client that it can do the switch if it wants to

pep., I'm saying clients should never allow that, it's silly

what possible reason would a client have for doing it?

That is, it can start talking to the realjid instead

It already can

ignore biboumi for a second

It wouldn't know in a generic way

in non-anonymous mucs, the client knows the real JID, and should only ever send messages to that

it has this info

meh moparisthebest

Sure, in the meantime, it's a thing

I don't think so, all my clients already behave like this...

i heard people say, they like that conversations are separated that way

When you get contacted via PM, you generally answer via PM

also if you are admin in an anon room

you have the real jid of everyone

lovetox, yeah but you know it's an anon room

but you propbably dont want to message them to the real jid

in gajim you can choose if gajim prefers the real jid or not

So I guess we "just" need to implement this automatic switch in clients?

Biboumi already gives us realjid info in MUCs right?

It's just weird if one directly contacts a PM-jid

Because biboumi makes this possible without being joined, I think?

next question about roster, i guess no client should add a muc to the roster or?

lovetox, some want to add MIX rooms to the roster

would it be evident that it is a mix room?

like from receiving the roster

You'd need to disco certainly

thats absolutely horrible

https://doc.biboumi.louiz.org/user.html#roster biboumi also encourages that

not really

these are JIDs, that support presence

and you dont need to interact with them like a groupchat

so fine by me

the problem for me is, if someone sends me a contact in the roster, and then i need to interact with it as a muc

I think it was the only way to do something because the other way was removed, but I don't remember what exactly.. (not useful, I know)