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lovetox
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hm is it allowed to store full jids in the roster?
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lovetox
15:54:19
makes not alot of sense for me, but do i need to expect that?
Ge0rG
15:54:28
lovetox: it's not allowed
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lovetox
15:58:26
hm i dont find it in the rfc
lovetox
15:58:36
its not mentioned in the description of the JID attribute
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Ge0rG
15:59:31
Yeah, I was surprised as well. Not sure if there is something about that in the presence management section
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flow
16:00:45
not explicitly forbidden IIRC
Zash
16:02:42
Yeah, iirc it says that presence management is done with bare JIDs
lovetox
16:03:26
Zash would prosody allow if i push a jid with a resource?
lovetox
16:03:29
or throw an error
Zash
16:03:33
:shrug:
flow
16:03:41
that said, full (domain) JIDs in roster is probably something to consider forbidding in XMPP 2.0
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flow
16:04:10
and in general, everytime a spec says "put JID here" it should explicitly mention which jid types are allowed
MattJ
16:04:25
lovetox, it's likely to either error or silently strip the resource, but I haven't tested
Zash
16:05:30
Looking at the code, looks like it'll return modify, bad-request
flow
16:05:54
+1 for the return-error behavior
lovetox
16:06:05
ok so, if i silently skip full jids in a roster and just log a warning, i dont break some stuff
lovetox
16:06:17
then i will add that
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flow
16:06:46
lovetox, why not show the roster entries but forbid adding full jid roster entries?
lovetox
16:08:34
of course Gajim does not add full roster jids, its about what other servers and clients do, and what Gajim receives and how to deal with it
lovetox
16:08:48
i dont know what you mean with "show the roster entry"
lovetox
16:08:56
what exactly should i show in case of a full jid?
lovetox
16:09:06
treat it as a bare jid?
flow
16:09:14
lovetox, no simply show the full jid
flow
16:09:18
where you would normall show the bare jid ✎
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flow
16:09:41
where you would normally show the bare jid ✏
flow
16:10:21
why "skip full jids" in roster if you have allready received them? couldn't you just show the full-jid roster item as any other item?
lovetox
16:10:55
the jid is not just metadata text, its a roster item object in my application, the jid is important, its a object a lot of code operates with, it cant just be sometimes a full jid and sometimes a bare jid, otherwise i need to change all my code to expect both
flow
16:11:28
ok
pep.
16:17:31
Is there a use-case for a fulljid in the roster?
pep.
16:17:56
(explicitely not asking if it's allowed)
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flow
16:31:19
not the I am aware of, the best I could came up with ad-hoc is a contrived case where something puts a full jid in the roster and uses pubsub roster access model
flow
16:31:40
but such an approach appears insecure in the first place
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pep.
16:38:20
Well for example when using biboumi we're encouraged to add users in our roster. It's still a barejid (user%network@gateway) but I could see gateways doing this as well with a lesser format? (such as discussed here a few days ago) :/
pep.
16:38:31
Even though gateway-interaction stuff is probably better
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flow
16:53:00
lesser format?
pep.
16:53:55
Something like skype@component/user was mentioned
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lovetox
17:50:02
does anyone know, is it possible to PM contacts on irc via biboumi?
pep.
17:53:34
Yeah it is
pep.
17:53:38
Or it was at least
moparisthebest
17:54:36
lovetox, yea their bare JID is username%irc.whatever.com@yourbiboumi
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lovetox
18:06:03
yeah its super weird
lovetox
18:06:20
so actually you cannot pm someone
lovetox
18:06:32
not in the xmpp pm way
Zash
18:06:51
Hm?
lovetox
18:07:06
its just like a non-anon chat
lovetox
18:07:12
where every user has a real id ✎
Zash
18:07:13
Pretty sure Biboumi handles #chan%irc.example/nickname too
lovetox
18:07:14
where every user has a real jid ✏
Zash
18:07:40
and/or exposes "real" JIDs of the user%irc.net@biboumi shape
lovetox
18:07:52
ah but gajim prefers the real one
Zash
18:07:54
MUC PMs are weird anyway, doesn't everyone agree on that?
moparisthebest
18:09:29
yea looks like they are non-anonymous MUCs so if you "PM" someone you just get the real JID
lovetox
18:16:03
it gets weirder
lovetox
18:16:10
if i write to the resource
Zash
18:16:18
"and then it got weirder"
Zash
18:16:23
story of XMPP? 🙂
lovetox
18:16:24
biboumi seems to translate that and sends it from the user acc
lovetox
18:16:44
so actually if send to the resource, you never get an answer
pep.
18:16:49
Yeah I uess the weird thing is that there's no way to go from one to the other in clients
lovetox
18:16:52
or you do but form another jid
Zash
18:17:06
not?
Zash
18:17:24
I guess Biboumi would have to remember which channel you PM'd via since that info doesn't exist in IRC
Zash
18:17:42
And that's where I said "haha nope" and never touched IRC ever again
pep.
18:17:59
Does biboumi give us the realjid when talking to the PM-jid?
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pep.
18:18:15
Is there a way to know a make the change in the client ourselves
pep.
18:18:43
Presence isn't a thing also so..
pep.
18:18:58
Or is it
pep.
18:19:38
Not even talking about biboumi, is that doable in MUC. If one wanted to automatically switch to realjids when possible
pep.
18:20:25
Even though in MUC you'd be joined so you would have the info if it's there.
moparisthebest
18:22:12
that info doesn't need to exist because "bob" is the same person in all channels
moparisthebest
18:22:43
just in general in non-anonymous mucs why would you ever message anything *but* the real JID ?
pep.
18:22:43
Well biboumi could tell us somehow
pep.
18:22:56
moparisthebest, because your client allows you to
pep.
18:23:15
Because we're not all XMPP protocol nerds
Zash
18:23:17
Tell us what?
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pep.
18:23:41
Zash, the associated realjid
Zash
18:23:47
That #chan%irc.net@irc.gw/user == user%irc.net@irc.gw ?
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Zash
18:23:55
Didn't we establish that it does that already?
pep.
18:24:00
No, that it's exactly the same thing
Zash
18:24:23
Oh, you want aliases. We don't do aliases here.
pep.
18:24:42
aliases no. That'd be a hint for the client that it can do the switch if it wants to
moparisthebest
18:24:51
pep., I'm saying clients should never allow that, it's silly
moparisthebest
18:25:00
what possible reason would a client have for doing it?
pep.
18:25:03
That is, it can start talking to the realjid instead
Zash
18:25:10
It already can
moparisthebest
18:25:19
ignore biboumi for a second
pep.
18:25:28
It wouldn't know in a generic way
moparisthebest
18:25:33
in non-anonymous mucs, the client knows the real JID, and should only ever send messages to that
moparisthebest
18:25:40
it has this info
lovetox
18:26:05
meh moparisthebest
pep.
18:26:14
Sure, in the meantime, it's a thing
moparisthebest
18:26:26
I don't think so, all my clients already behave like this...
lovetox
18:26:32
i heard people say, they like that conversations are separated that way
pep.
18:26:42
When you get contacted via PM, you generally answer via PM
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lovetox
18:26:53
also if you are admin in an anon room
lovetox
18:27:00
you have the real jid of everyone
pep.
18:27:10
lovetox, yeah but you know it's an anon room
lovetox
18:27:11
but you propbably dont want to message them to the real jid
lovetox
18:27:57
in gajim you can choose if gajim prefers the real jid or not
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pep.
18:28:19
So I guess we "just" need to implement this automatic switch in clients?
pep.
18:28:31
Biboumi already gives us realjid info in MUCs right?
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pep.
18:28:47
It's just weird if one directly contacts a PM-jid
pep.
18:29:13
Because biboumi makes this possible without being joined, I think?
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lovetox
19:29:37
next question about roster, i guess no client should add a muc to the roster or?
pep.
19:30:15
lovetox, some want to add MIX rooms to the roster
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lovetox
19:30:57
would it be evident that it is a mix room?
lovetox
19:31:04
like from receiving the roster
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pep.
19:31:26
You'd need to disco certainly
lovetox
19:31:37
thats absolutely horrible
pep.
19:32:40
https://doc.biboumi.louiz.org/user.html#roster biboumi also encourages that
lovetox
19:33:56
not really
lovetox
19:34:04
these are JIDs, that support presence
lovetox
19:34:18
and you dont need to interact with them like a groupchat
lovetox
19:34:21
so fine by me
lovetox
19:34:52
the problem for me is, if someone sends me a contact in the roster, and then i need to interact with it as a muc
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pep.
19:35:02
I think it was the only way to do something because the other way was removed, but I don't remember what exactly.. (not useful, I know)
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