jdev - 2022-07-10

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22:18:26 rom1dep do you guys know if there's anything in the pipes for XMPP that'd be akin to matrix spaces/discord servers (as in, a way to join and then discover a collection of related MUCs)?
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22:24:13 rom1dep it is an absolute UX nightmare on matrix, IMO (and quite broken at the moment). If that's something being considered for XMPP, I'd be interested to see how it compares (I do think it's a worthy feature to have, especially when more and more communities organize themselves around multiple rooms)
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22:27:11 Zash Yes, no, maybe. We've had conference servers per project since forever, which could be described as spaces, if you squint at it. There was some sort of working group started but I haven't followed it for some time.
22:28:01 thomaslewis Could Gajim’s workspaces be extended and standardized into something like spaces/servers?
22:28:41 thomaslewis PubSub could be used for setting up the groups server-side…
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22:32:20 lovetox is this something people on matrix use much and like?
22:32:27 lovetox personally i never had the need
22:33:07 Zash It's of course the most critical feature, without which XMPP can never succeed.
22:33:15 lovetox ~~the problem here would probably be, how hosts the space list, and how do you discover it~~ ✎
22:33:22 lovetox the problem here would probably be, who hosts the space list, and how do you discover it ✏
22:34:50 Zash Having seen this discussion repeat, I would suggest someone write some stuff down in a ProtoXEP, or at the very least a problem statement of some sort.
22:36:03 Zash Or even better, write some code
22:36:39 lovetox this would be a huge xep
22:37:42 lovetox discover spaces, invite, join, create a space, delete a space, roles within the spaces ..
22:38:06 lovetox it is like a meta-muc
22:39:00 lovetox and what is the gain of all that complexity? you have to send one invite instead of 4
22:40:02 Zash I'm pretty sure whatever it is you have in mind, it's not the same as what thomaslewis has in mind.
22:40:22 lovetox or we could make it more p2p
22:40:25 Zash Hence, problem statement. As in, agree on what the problem is.
22:40:42 lovetox a user creates local in its client a space and puts 4 mucs in it, and just sends that information to another client
22:43:30 Zash Since I am a server developer, I will leave you to it.
22:44:08 lovetox or we make the one and only global xmpp pubsub server
22:44:15 lovetox where we can publish this information 🤤
22:44:34 lovetox or we create a pubsub sync protocol s2s
22:45:29 lovetox after all these great ideas, iam tired now and im going to bed
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22:48:58 rom1dep By the time I moved to mine there were two dozen replies :)
22:49:37 Zash and now back to ignoring all this for another couple of years
22:50:26 rom1dep It could be a pubsub node that contains a list of MUC URIs, wouldn't that make it sensible and good enough from a permissions point of view?
22:52:59 rom1dep (I don't think P2P is warranted, I don't think it's important that spaces are centrally discoverable, just like MUC aren't)
22:57:12 pulkomandy I would consider imhlementing it the other way around: tag each mesage sent to a muc with a "subroom" name. Then you have a single muc to join/leave/manage, which is probably simpler
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23:02:48 rom1dep That would probably mess up every client out there without helping in any way with the problems of who gets to define/delete/manage those tags (which, to some extent, would need to be known to the MUC server for obvious syncability, which means messing with MUC and MAM), not sure it's simpler
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