jdev - 2022-08-04

hi! I want to implement a basic xmpp client as a learning project (just plain text chat for now), what docs / XEPs should I read for that? I expect to struggle with XML a bit since I've never used it

spiral: do you want to learn the xmpp protocol or designing user-facing applications?

the xmpp protocol, I'll adapt a chat app I was working on already

I do want to actually use it as my primary xmpp client one day, but I'm very far from being able to do that

spiral: I've learned the xmpp protocol by using and extending (a little bit) the smack xmpp library. I think it's always a good idea to look for an open-source library that you can use, and you'll still learn enough about the protocol itself without having a very hard time at the beginning

implementing xmpp from scratch for a chat client is a long shot

what Ge0rG said

I tried looking at that, but xmpp libraries for dart/flutter don't seem to be very maintained

an no, not because he mentioned Smack, but I also believe that you learn XMPP best if you look at any reasonable XMPP client library

I might start in a different language just to learn the protocol, and then port to dart

is it really a lot of effort just to send plain text messages?

spiral, yes

spiral: maybe those libraries were developed by people like you, who wanted to learn xmpp by doing it all from scratch, and didn't complete the task?

mostly because of the initial connection establishment

Ge0rG that makes sense

you could take some shortcuts, e.g. by sacrificing security and only implementing SASL-PLAIN

I see

spiral, you may want to look at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6120#section-9.1

spiral: you need to establish an xml stream over a network socket, then establish encryption and restart the xml stream, then perform authentication and restart the xml stream etc etc.

and there are some implementation pitfalls that the RFC does not mention (because the RFC describes the protocol and not the implementation)

and for a mobile client you should also consider XEP-0198 from day 1

hm all of this seems more of a chore than anything that's really hard to do... but I guess I'll see when I try it

the dart-xmpp library looks like it's a 20% solution

https://github.com/vukoye/xmpp_dart seems like it's not completely abandoned

also has XEP-0198 integrated

I'll look at that then

I'm reading through the rfc right now

thanks for the pointers

Honestly, if you just want something working quickly, start with XMPP over websockets, or at least do direct TLS

You won't be compatible with 100% of XMPP servers that way, but you'll be compatible with most of them with a lot less effort

If the goal is to learn XMPP the (slightly less) hard way, and not to just implement a chat app

Even if just implementing a chat app, if you ask me

I'd suggest looking at the XML console in e.g. Gajim. That was how I started anyway.

I think a lot of you all use gitlab, heads up: https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/04/gitlab_data_retention_policy/

more "update copyright year" commits to come?

But yeah they're certainly right to be wary of the opposition

Obligatory Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1150/

inactive accounts wouldn't be so bad, but how many repos do you have that you "finished" and no longer touch? I know I have a ton

anyway, just your often-reminder to run your own services :D

^

Zash, yes and no. They actually benefit from you having your stuff there

Unlike Chad

It's not just taking up space ✏

Close Enough. https://xkcd.com/2347/ might be relevant too, except it being them kicking that brick out because the person from Nebraska has been busy with child care for the last year