jdev - 2022-08-08

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  262. pulkomandy

    nav, thanks for the patch to xmpp-doap, it looks like it should work, but when rendering the xml in a browser, it doesn't work because of cross site resource loading. I don't know enough about web dev to see if this could be fixed by allowing it, from one side or the other

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  265. lovetox

    why is there something loaded from other sites? i thought the xml is transformed with the xsl once and a html file is generated

  266. Zash

    browsers can do the xslt transform

  267. Zash

    e.g. if you go to the XML file https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0453.xml

  268. nav

    pulkomandy: Hi, no bother. For the XML to render in the browser what it's needed is to send `Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *` CORS headers with the `https://xmpp.org/extensions/*.xml` files.

  269. Zash

    so yeah, external resources needed for the xml stylesheet is subject to CORS rules as if they were scripts

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  272. lovetox

    yeah, but there are 400 xeps, how is that implemented right now? we cannot query 400 xml files everytime someone looks at the page what our client supports

  273. nav

    lovetox: you can do it either way: generate an .html from the .xml during the site's build stage (via the Makefile) and/or have the browser do it. The XEPs on xmpp.org currently do both as Zash says.

  274. nav

    lovetox: a) you don't. You only visit those which are mentioned in the DOAP file; b) you're overoptimising ☺

  275. pulkomandy

    let the browser cache handle it? or put the xeps behind a CDN?

  276. pulkomandy

    so, who can I ask to see if it's possible to add this header to the xeps on xmpp.org?

  277. lovetox

    of course we add now more infrastructure to xmpp.org so people can look at doaps ... oooor maybe we get the information we need from a single xml file instead of hundreds

  278. pulkomandy

    yes that works too, the more general question is, is there a better place than here to discuss it?

  279. nav

    pulkomandy: What are the traffic figures on xmpp.org? I have difficulty believing that a few hundred / thousand extra requests a day would be a problem. Anyway, if it were up to me I would generate the .htmls in the Makefile *and* add the CORS header so that visiting the XML directly also works, if nothing else to be consistent with the XEPs.

  280. nav

    It seems to me that wurstsalat has access to the xmpp.org repo and would be the one to ask.

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  283. nav

    lovetox: You could, and collecting DOAPs and adding them to the relevant sections of https://xmpp.org/software/ would probably not be a bad idea. However, I'd still set the CORS headers.

  284. nav

    For instance, I may want to host my own DOAP and apply my own stylesheet, as Gajim do.

  285. wurstsalat

    nav: /extensions/xep-xxxx is populated by the xsf/xeps repo. There is xeplist.xml, which holds the name already. Maybe it's time to upgrade that file or add another xeplist-revision-history.xml for your needs?

  286. nav

    In that case, if I can just put the XML somewhere accessible to the public and don't have to bother with a build step, which I almost certainly wouldn't anyway.

  287. nav

    wurstsalat: what is the problem you're trying to solve?

  288. wurstsalat

    nav, accessing 100-200 files for viewing a single doap file

  289. wurstsalat

    adding the header rule wouldn't be the problem, I guess

  290. nav

    wurstsalat: `saxon8 -o $DOAP.html $DOAP.xml style.xsl`

  291. nav

    Put that (or similar) in the Makefile and serve the .html files.

  292. nav

    Assuming that you'll be hosting DOAPs in xsf/repo.

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  295. wurstsalat

    they are available during build, so that wouldn't be a problem.

  296. wurstsalat

    but it would require every project which wants to display their doap file to make/render it. for me, it was appealing that this simply isn't necessary, because browsers do the rendering themselves

  297. pulkomandy

    yes that's the idea for using xslt

  298. nav

    Anyway, I don't know what the traffic stats are for xmpp.org, but I very much doubt that accessing the entire XEP collection on DOAP styled views would be a problem at all. It's only a few hundred fairly small files, so they'll probably end up in the disk / nginx cache anyway and not generate any significant extra load, assuming that the site does not get millions of hits per hour.

  299. nav

    To be clear, I would still generate .html at build time, but only because it's easy to do and secondarily because you don't have to depend on the vagaries of XSLT implementation on every different browser out there.

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  301. pulkomandy

    well if there's a single file with all the info available I'm happy to use that instead

  302. nav

    pulkomandy: You can, if you're happy with not having the publication date of the implemented version of each XEP or the change history since.

  303. nav

    Also, denormalisation. ☺

  304. wurstsalat

    there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xeplist.xml (but nav wants to display the date of the implemented revision, which is not available in that file)

  305. Link Mauve

    nav, the issue isn’t about xmpp.org, but about users who suddenly have to do so many requests to somewhat big files when a single one would be enough.

  306. Link Mauve

    Not everyone got fiber, even in 2022.

  307. nav

    Link Mauve: why would users be accessing the .xml instead of the pre-rendered .html version?

  308. Link Mauve

    Plus xmpp.org is hosted in the USA, depending on where you are it adds a whole bunch of latency.

  309. Link Mauve

    nav, why not?

  310. nav

    Good point about the traffic size from the *client's* point of view.

  311. pulkomandy

    yes personally I don't plan to serve generated html when the browser can do it

  312. pulkomandy

    unless the generation becomes heavy and complicated (in terms of network or computation) but then I wouldn't be using xslt to do it

  313. Link Mauve

    nav, there are only three browsers left, you can probably rely on their XSLT processors.

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  315. pulkomandy

    they probably all use libxml

  316. nav

    That's what is being currently done with XEP XMLs

  317. Link Mauve

    No, Firefox uses transformiix instead.

  318. nav

    Link Mauve: Interesting.

  319. pulkomandy

    wurstsalat, ok, so can we get xmpp.org to allow cross source access on xeplist.xml? meanwhile I can download a local copy to experiment and update the xslt to use it

  320. nav

    But yes, if you'll be serving primarily (or only) the .xml version then yes, I see how hitting a single other file would be better from the client's point of view.

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  323. nav

    wurstsalat: I second pulkomandy's request. ✔

  324. Link Mauve

    pulkomandy, nav, you can do it too, modify that file here: https://github.com/SamWhited/xmpp.org/blob/master/deploy/xsf.conf

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  326. Zash

    There is another

  327. Link Mauve

    pulkomandy, nav, you can do it too, modify that file here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/deploy/xsf.conf

  328. wurstsalat

    That's Sam's fork

  329. wurstsalat


  330. Link Mauve

    (Corrected my message, sorry.)

  331. Link Mauve

    (I had it loaded somewhere in my tabs.)

  332. Zash

    There are 7 layers of proxies.

  333. wurstsalat

    looking at the infra, maybe it would be wise to do nginx rules per repo, as I see "xeps" also sets some nginx rule here: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/Dockerfile#L22

  334. Link Mauve

    Alright, while we’re at it: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/1159

  335. wurstsalat


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  339. wurstsalat

    Zash, should we have an /deploy/xsf.conf (like there is for xsf/xmpp.org) also for xsf/xeps ?

  340. Zash

    Not opposed. Just be aware that there's an outer ngnix too

  341. wurstsalat

    I don't have further insights here, but I'd like to avoid setting nginx rules via the xmpp.org repo to /extensions/xeplist.xml, which is fed by xsf/xeps

  342. wurstsalat

    jonas’, what do you think? ^

  343. nav

    FYI, this is why I think being able to access the xep*.xml is a good idea: https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap.html (the question marks open a pop-up with the list of missing changes). With that say, I'm not advocating putting that much info in something intended for users. On the other hand, as an implementor, I find it handy to see at a glance what I am missing and if I need to bring my implementation up to date (e.g., if it's just an editorial change or something significant).

  344. nav

    Anyhow, I'll knock something up that uses xeplist. ☕ first though.

  345. wurstsalat

    that's impressive :)

  346. wurstsalat

    nav, could be achieved with a single file, if there was a xeplist.xml with all revisions included

  347. Link Mauve


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  350. nav

    Q: Why does style.xsl refer to "../style.css" when style.css is in the same directory?

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  352. Zash

    Guess: Because they're built into a `builds/` subdirectory

  353. Zash

    Alternative guess: Historical reasons lost in time.

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  355. Zash

    Wait what are we talking about?

  356. nav

    Zash: `sed -n 12p style.xsl`

  357. nav

    <link href="../style.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"/>

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  359. nav

    Can I change that to <link href="style.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"/> ?

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  361. nav

    (i.e., get rid of ../)

  362. Zash

    I'm looking at the xeps repo and have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

  363. nav

    Zash: Sorry I was in my own little world. :) I'm talking about this: https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/blob/master/style.xsl#L12

  364. nav

    I'd like to change that to ./style.css to be consistent with the actual (and in deployment, likely) location of the .css file.

  365. nav

    And while at it, also add the DOCTYPE declaration to the XSLT output.

  366. Zash

    What I would do: Check the history of that line, see there are any reasons for it to be that way mentioned when it was added, or if it made sense at the time but not now etc

  367. Zash

    I.e. https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/commit/edcdf12c244b34e89d63f47f3788cde3d175cd2f

  368. Zash

    Hm, because the `samples/` dir?

  369. Zash

    So, not completely unlike `xeps/build/` then.

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  371. pulkomandy

    so, does this look good? (using a local copy of xeplist.xml for testing): https://pulkomandy.tk/drop/xmpp-doap/samples/poezio.xml

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  375. Zash


  376. nav

    pulkomandy: Looks good apart from the styling of “version implemented” (smaller font than “latest version”).

  377. Zash

    Maybe show a (latest $latestversion) after version implemented where relevant instead of a separate column?

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  385. pulkomandy

    yes, done, is it better now?

  386. pulkomandy

    also merged the XEP and Name columns

  387. Zash

    Hm, I was thinking that the latest version is a bit redundant when it is equal to the implemented one, so one could hide it or just show (latest) maybe?

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  389. Zash

    Oh, obviously this requires ... ✅️ GREEN CHECKMARKS

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  393. nav

    Zash: How about either a ✅️ or a (something else) with a tooltip to the effect that there is a newer version of that XEP?

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  395. wurstsalat

    What I had in mind was a yellow box with an exclamation mark for only those which are not up to date (less clutter). But that's bike shedding, and I'd implement that myself later, if needed :)

  396. nav

    wurstsalat: What shade of yellow? 😇

  397. wurstsalat

    nav: the same as for the "partial" tag

  398. wurstsalat

    (which works on both light and dark themes)

  399. Zash

    The bikeshed should be painted $(shuf -n 1 /etc/X11/rgb.txt) !

  400. nav

    Shouldn't a committee decide that?

  401. nav likes building bike sheds

  402. nav

    Anyway, the yellow box kind of thing only for outdated revisions makes sense.

  403. wurstsalat

    No, seriously, just add the "partial" class

  404. nav

    Less clutter.

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  408. nav

    https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap/doap.html ?

  409. Zash


  410. nav

    Zash: I can add green checkmarks 🙂

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  412. nav

    Are the abstracts guaranteed to be pure text content?

  413. nav

    I guess they can have mixed content also?

  414. pulkomandy

    ok I have green checkmarks now :)

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  419. pulkomandy

    maybe a further improvement is checking if at least the major version number matches, but I think it's enough xslt for today

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  422. Zash

    Hmmm, but 0.x → 1.0 can happen without any changes

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  425. pulkomandy

    yes, if it's not semver it doesn't make sense to do things like that

  426. Zash

    Hm, isn't semver that way too?

  427. pulkomandy

    sort of

  428. Zash

    No guarantees when it's 0.x until one day you just get tired of the "0." and slap a 1.0 on it

  429. pulkomandy

    "Major version zero (0.y.z) is for initial development. Anything MAY change at any time. The public API SHOULD NOT be considered stable."

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  431. Zash

    Tho here 1.0 happens when it moves forward in the process

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  434. Zash

    Now if only we still had the xep diff thing :(

  435. Zash

    (or if I found motivation for building a new one)

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  437. Zash

    Hello `./tools/md-diff.sh xep-0363.xml xep-0363-v1.0.0 xep-0363-v1.1.0`

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  449. nav

    Oops. Forgot to send the patches

  450. nav


  451. nav


  452. nav


  453. nav


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  459. pulkomandy

    I already pushed my own changes to use xeplist.xml and tweak a few other things, can you rebase tours?

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  472. nav

    pulkomandy: Oh I hadn't noticed. In theory, the abstract could have mixed content, right?

  473. pulkomandy

    I don't kniw, but in that case putting it in the title could create some problems I guess

  474. nav

    Because if that's the case, then title="{$xep-descriptor/abstract/text()}" is not going to work.

  475. nav


  476. nav

    OTOH, this is now coming from xeplist.xml

  477. nav

    Which appears to convert XML elements to text and then back to XML (not quite sure why?)

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  479. nav

    So in that case, I guess it _should_ work. I'll check.

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  481. nav

    Yeah ok, the problem would actually manifest itself in ./tools/extract-metadata.py in https://github.com/xsf/xeps

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  488. nav

    This function https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/tools/extract-metadata.py#L26 looks a bit brittle

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  588. nav

    How / where is xeplist.xml used?

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