jdev - 2022-08-08

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  262. pulkomandy nav, thanks for the patch to xmpp-doap, it looks like it should work, but when rendering the xml in a browser, it doesn't work because of cross site resource loading. I don't know enough about web dev to see if this could be fixed by allowing it, from one side or the other
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  265. lovetox why is there something loaded from other sites? i thought the xml is transformed with the xsl once and a html file is generated
  266. Zash browsers can do the xslt transform
  267. Zash e.g. if you go to the XML file https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0453.xml
  268. nav pulkomandy: Hi, no bother. For the XML to render in the browser what it's needed is to send `Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *` CORS headers with the `https://xmpp.org/extensions/*.xml` files.
  269. Zash so yeah, external resources needed for the xml stylesheet is subject to CORS rules as if they were scripts
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  272. lovetox yeah, but there are 400 xeps, how is that implemented right now? we cannot query 400 xml files everytime someone looks at the page what our client supports
  273. nav lovetox: you can do it either way: generate an .html from the .xml during the site's build stage (via the Makefile) and/or have the browser do it. The XEPs on xmpp.org currently do both as Zash says.
  274. nav lovetox: a) you don't. You only visit those which are mentioned in the DOAP file; b) you're overoptimising ☺
  275. pulkomandy let the browser cache handle it? or put the xeps behind a CDN?
  276. pulkomandy so, who can I ask to see if it's possible to add this header to the xeps on xmpp.org?
  277. lovetox of course we add now more infrastructure to xmpp.org so people can look at doaps ... oooor maybe we get the information we need from a single xml file instead of hundreds
  278. pulkomandy yes that works too, the more general question is, is there a better place than here to discuss it?
  279. nav pulkomandy: What are the traffic figures on xmpp.org? I have difficulty believing that a few hundred / thousand extra requests a day would be a problem. Anyway, if it were up to me I would generate the .htmls in the Makefile *and* add the CORS header so that visiting the XML directly also works, if nothing else to be consistent with the XEPs.
  280. nav It seems to me that wurstsalat has access to the xmpp.org repo and would be the one to ask.
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  283. nav lovetox: You could, and collecting DOAPs and adding them to the relevant sections of https://xmpp.org/software/ would probably not be a bad idea. However, I'd still set the CORS headers.
  284. nav For instance, I may want to host my own DOAP and apply my own stylesheet, as Gajim do.
  285. wurstsalat nav: /extensions/xep-xxxx is populated by the xsf/xeps repo. There is xeplist.xml, which holds the name already. Maybe it's time to upgrade that file or add another xeplist-revision-history.xml for your needs?
  286. nav In that case, if I can just put the XML somewhere accessible to the public and don't have to bother with a build step, which I almost certainly wouldn't anyway.
  287. nav wurstsalat: what is the problem you're trying to solve?
  288. wurstsalat nav, accessing 100-200 files for viewing a single doap file
  289. wurstsalat adding the header rule wouldn't be the problem, I guess
  290. nav wurstsalat: `saxon8 -o $DOAP.html $DOAP.xml style.xsl`
  291. nav Put that (or similar) in the Makefile and serve the .html files.
  292. nav Assuming that you'll be hosting DOAPs in xsf/repo.
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  295. wurstsalat they are available during build, so that wouldn't be a problem.
  296. wurstsalat but it would require every project which wants to display their doap file to make/render it. for me, it was appealing that this simply isn't necessary, because browsers do the rendering themselves
  297. pulkomandy yes that's the idea for using xslt
  298. nav Anyway, I don't know what the traffic stats are for xmpp.org, but I very much doubt that accessing the entire XEP collection on DOAP styled views would be a problem at all. It's only a few hundred fairly small files, so they'll probably end up in the disk / nginx cache anyway and not generate any significant extra load, assuming that the site does not get millions of hits per hour.
  299. nav To be clear, I would still generate .html at build time, but only because it's easy to do and secondarily because you don't have to depend on the vagaries of XSLT implementation on every different browser out there.
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  301. pulkomandy well if there's a single file with all the info available I'm happy to use that instead
  302. nav pulkomandy: You can, if you're happy with not having the publication date of the implemented version of each XEP or the change history since.
  303. nav Also, denormalisation. ☺
  304. wurstsalat there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xeplist.xml (but nav wants to display the date of the implemented revision, which is not available in that file)
  305. Link Mauve nav, the issue isn’t about xmpp.org, but about users who suddenly have to do so many requests to somewhat big files when a single one would be enough.
  306. Link Mauve Not everyone got fiber, even in 2022.
  307. nav Link Mauve: why would users be accessing the .xml instead of the pre-rendered .html version?
  308. Link Mauve Plus xmpp.org is hosted in the USA, depending on where you are it adds a whole bunch of latency.
  309. Link Mauve nav, why not?
  310. nav Good point about the traffic size from the *client's* point of view.
  311. pulkomandy yes personally I don't plan to serve generated html when the browser can do it
  312. pulkomandy unless the generation becomes heavy and complicated (in terms of network or computation) but then I wouldn't be using xslt to do it
  313. Link Mauve nav, there are only three browsers left, you can probably rely on their XSLT processors.
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  315. pulkomandy they probably all use libxml
  316. nav That's what is being currently done with XEP XMLs
  317. Link Mauve No, Firefox uses transformiix instead.
  318. nav Link Mauve: Interesting.
  319. pulkomandy wurstsalat, ok, so can we get xmpp.org to allow cross source access on xeplist.xml? meanwhile I can download a local copy to experiment and update the xslt to use it
  320. nav But yes, if you'll be serving primarily (or only) the .xml version then yes, I see how hitting a single other file would be better from the client's point of view.
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  323. nav wurstsalat: I second pulkomandy's request. ✔
  324. Link Mauve pulkomandy, nav, you can do it too, modify that file here: https://github.com/SamWhited/xmpp.org/blob/master/deploy/xsf.conf
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  326. Zash There is another
  327. Link Mauve pulkomandy, nav, you can do it too, modify that file here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/deploy/xsf.conf
  328. wurstsalat That's Sam's fork
  329. wurstsalat but:
  330. Link Mauve (Corrected my message, sorry.)
  331. Link Mauve (I had it loaded somewhere in my tabs.)
  332. Zash There are 7 layers of proxies.
  333. wurstsalat looking at the infra, maybe it would be wise to do nginx rules per repo, as I see "xeps" also sets some nginx rule here: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/Dockerfile#L22
  334. Link Mauve Alright, while we’re at it: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/1159
  335. wurstsalat thanks!
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  339. wurstsalat Zash, should we have an /deploy/xsf.conf (like there is for xsf/xmpp.org) also for xsf/xeps ?
  340. Zash Not opposed. Just be aware that there's an outer ngnix too
  341. wurstsalat I don't have further insights here, but I'd like to avoid setting nginx rules via the xmpp.org repo to /extensions/xeplist.xml, which is fed by xsf/xeps
  342. wurstsalat jonas’, what do you think? ^
  343. nav FYI, this is why I think being able to access the xep*.xml is a good idea: https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap.html (the question marks open a pop-up with the list of missing changes). With that say, I'm not advocating putting that much info in something intended for users. On the other hand, as an implementor, I find it handy to see at a glance what I am missing and if I need to bring my implementation up to date (e.g., if it's just an editorial change or something significant).
  344. nav Anyhow, I'll knock something up that uses xeplist. ☕ first though.
  345. wurstsalat that's impressive :)
  346. wurstsalat nav, could be achieved with a single file, if there was a xeplist.xml with all revisions included
  347. Link Mauve Cute!
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  350. nav Q: Why does style.xsl refer to "../style.css" when style.css is in the same directory?
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  352. Zash Guess: Because they're built into a `builds/` subdirectory
  353. Zash Alternative guess: Historical reasons lost in time.
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  355. Zash Wait what are we talking about?
  356. nav Zash: `sed -n 12p style.xsl`
  357. nav <link href="../style.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"/>
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  359. nav Can I change that to <link href="style.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"/> ?
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  361. nav (i.e., get rid of ../)
  362. Zash I'm looking at the xeps repo and have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.
  363. nav Zash: Sorry I was in my own little world. :) I'm talking about this: https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/blob/master/style.xsl#L12
  364. nav I'd like to change that to ./style.css to be consistent with the actual (and in deployment, likely) location of the .css file.
  365. nav And while at it, also add the DOCTYPE declaration to the XSLT output.
  366. Zash What I would do: Check the history of that line, see there are any reasons for it to be that way mentioned when it was added, or if it made sense at the time but not now etc
  367. Zash I.e. https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/commit/edcdf12c244b34e89d63f47f3788cde3d175cd2f
  368. Zash Hm, because the `samples/` dir?
  369. Zash So, not completely unlike `xeps/build/` then.
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  371. pulkomandy so, does this look good? (using a local copy of xeplist.xml for testing): https://pulkomandy.tk/drop/xmpp-doap/samples/poezio.xml
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  375. Zash 👍️
  376. nav pulkomandy: Looks good apart from the styling of “version implemented” (smaller font than “latest version”).
  377. Zash Maybe show a (latest $latestversion) after version implemented where relevant instead of a separate column?
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  385. pulkomandy yes, done, is it better now?
  386. pulkomandy also merged the XEP and Name columns
  387. Zash Hm, I was thinking that the latest version is a bit redundant when it is equal to the implemented one, so one could hide it or just show (latest) maybe?
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  389. Zash Oh, obviously this requires ... ✅️ GREEN CHECKMARKS
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  393. nav Zash: How about either a ✅️ or a (something else) with a tooltip to the effect that there is a newer version of that XEP?
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  395. wurstsalat What I had in mind was a yellow box with an exclamation mark for only those which are not up to date (less clutter). But that's bike shedding, and I'd implement that myself later, if needed :)
  396. nav wurstsalat: What shade of yellow? 😇
  397. wurstsalat nav: the same as for the "partial" tag
  398. wurstsalat (which works on both light and dark themes)
  399. Zash The bikeshed should be painted $(shuf -n 1 /etc/X11/rgb.txt) !
  400. nav Shouldn't a committee decide that?
  401. nav likes building bike sheds
  402. nav Anyway, the yellow box kind of thing only for outdated revisions makes sense.
  403. wurstsalat No, seriously, just add the "partial" class
  404. nav Less clutter.
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  408. nav https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap/doap.html ?
  409. Zash Mmmmmm
  410. nav Zash: I can add green checkmarks 🙂
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  412. nav Are the abstracts guaranteed to be pure text content?
  413. nav I guess they can have mixed content also?
  414. pulkomandy ok I have green checkmarks now :)
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  419. pulkomandy maybe a further improvement is checking if at least the major version number matches, but I think it's enough xslt for today
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  422. Zash Hmmm, but 0.x → 1.0 can happen without any changes
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  425. pulkomandy yes, if it's not semver it doesn't make sense to do things like that
  426. Zash Hm, isn't semver that way too?
  427. pulkomandy sort of
  428. Zash No guarantees when it's 0.x until one day you just get tired of the "0." and slap a 1.0 on it
  429. pulkomandy "Major version zero (0.y.z) is for initial development. Anything MAY change at any time. The public API SHOULD NOT be considered stable."
  430. al has left
  431. Zash Tho here 1.0 happens when it moves forward in the process
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  434. Zash Now if only we still had the xep diff thing :(
  435. Zash (or if I found motivation for building a new one)
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  437. Zash Hello `./tools/md-diff.sh xep-0363.xml xep-0363-v1.0.0 xep-0363-v1.1.0`
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  449. nav Oops. Forgot to send the patches
  450. nav https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/mkLfrhTDkBbUQsKhIDJSchMICuEMWq5M9sO5THXc/0001-Add-DOCTYPE-declaration.patch
  451. nav https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/nhIcPrJZy3Xb8kHTkHL8owSpJsBONH7wydGEmoBV/0002-Assume-that-style.css-is-in-the-same-directory-as-th.patch
  452. nav https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/IxsflwdXkoOp8XSiqwMiD9emgFBTZeeUY95G6sQn/0003-Add-XEP-name-and-latest-available-version.patch
  453. nav https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/7oI7ukpvWiBEUbRpKSqGkmHeKB2kma2YtOp4v5JQ/0004-Add-abstract-info.patch
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  459. pulkomandy I already pushed my own changes to use xeplist.xml and tweak a few other things, can you rebase tours?
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  472. nav pulkomandy: Oh I hadn't noticed. In theory, the abstract could have mixed content, right?
  473. pulkomandy I don't kniw, but in that case putting it in the title could create some problems I guess
  474. nav Because if that's the case, then title="{$xep-descriptor/abstract/text()}" is not going to work.
  475. nav Exactly
  476. nav OTOH, this is now coming from xeplist.xml
  477. nav Which appears to convert XML elements to text and then back to XML (not quite sure why?)
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  479. nav So in that case, I guess it _should_ work. I'll check.
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  481. nav Yeah ok, the problem would actually manifest itself in ./tools/extract-metadata.py in https://github.com/xsf/xeps
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  488. nav This function https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/tools/extract-metadata.py#L26 looks a bit brittle
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