jdev - 2022-08-09

A couple of patches to the DOAP XSLT.

Only the first patch is important-ish

The others should apply relatively cleanly in a pick and choose basis, i.e., if wanting to leave some of it out. In particular the last one.

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/jLWUdjRIe7YFi5iLyILE8RqWxEv5p3lHywac5uHT/0001-Add-DOCTYPE-declaration.patch

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/SxCkoHM4Kx0F4puePiPbLpuuxHVWVzQtRh8b0oGC/0002-Assume-that-style.css-is-in-the-same-directory-as-th.patch

(that one is a bit of a judgment call, but I figure in production the CSS may not always be exactly one level up)

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/WPOHkfJZ3zCaHN0YD94bhrqE0RVTyYPZY2g25IQu/0003-Add-XEP-name-and-latest-available-version.patch

The main change there is that XEP number and title are inside a single <a href=""> as opposed to two.

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/Uo25pTx4uF2elC7V907IkZJ0NCxqqYGvGVXtv4MS/0004-Add-anchors-to-XEPs.patch

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/jJYvC7OI5QvIvMS1v4J8idgYCMavSgufFjYm2kxd/0005-Add-abstract-info.patch

jonas’ About https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/tools/extract-metadata.py – I'm confused as to why it converts the XML to text and then back to XML.

That causes loss of info: mixed content, entities, directives (and comments) will not be translated.

that's intentional to provide a fixed schema for xeplist.xml

(and other tools in the directory need plain text)

For email and such?

Take for instance the abstract of XEP-0099 (https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0099.xml)

is that not handled correctly?

What's also bizarre is that some XML entities are translated and others aren't. Take for instance <remark/> on XEP-0234 (correctly translates an em dash, versus XEP-0106 (missing dashes).

nice, it's indeed not

then I need to exchange minidom for something saner

Nope, it's missing a couple of words.

but I recall that that caused issues with our .ent and .dtd files -.-

Yeah I would expect so.

Why not run the output through a proper HTML→plain text converter?

because it's not HTML?

(which output, anyway?)

if anything, extract-metadata.py should probably be an XSL file…

Technically not, but it looks like it should do the job. I'm not talking about the entire XML, obs ☺ but rather the mixed content that you'd like to be pure text.

For instance <abstract/>, <remark/> and so on, where people sometimes use markup.

Yeah, I did write an XSLT stylesheet that creates a xeplist.xml, that's how I found the differences.

I should have a diff file somewhere…

oh, interesting

I'd take that I guess.

…I'll generate one quickly

no I mean, the xsl I'd take

as a pull request or whatever

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/gIVWrOV35jf6hJkfbrJUITh55qcElR0PyBEKf7eR/xeplist.diff

> no I mean, the xsl I'd take Yeah I understood that 😁

Maybe take a look at the diff first see if there is anything that might cause issues downstream?

…which there probably will, as I see that the content is used for emails, right?

but that aspect of things could probably be addressed by running the content going into the emails through an HTML → text converter.

…or just accept that some spurious markup is going to show up.

Anyway, I'll prepare a quick patch and you can play with it.

The background to this is that I was wanting to add the entire revision history to xeplist.xml

No xmpp dev room at FrOSCon '22?

Millesimus: it looks like there'll be a stand at least

Ge0rG: Ah yes, Dino has a stand.

jonas’ Diff against xsf/xeps master:

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/JFHPqKyqvOWi2KZcmLuK6SG729aoXXoK83SzrdYE/0001-Add-script-and-XSLT-stylesheet-to-generate-xeplist.x.patch

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/GXd5QLcks8lxCyJ1ttxdnZX3chntgXBYbYfA4eeC/0002-Replace-the-script-used-for-creating-xeplist.xml.patch

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/0qISEWyTkKMl1PMyIO250WMLqVWX2cZQJybMGfqf/0003-Remove-.-tools-extract-metadata.py.patch

nav, any chance to put that in a github PR?

Nope

or at least as emails to editor@xmpp.org ✏

otherwise I'll lose track

do i understand correctly that the roster is for storing user JIDs only and bookmarks are for the groupchats?

adx, yes

storing groupchat JIDs in the roster is going to cause fun

unless you're using MIX, then it's both likely to cause fun, but also the standard way of doing things

hmm, fun you say... 🙂

yeah, I was talking about MUCs

does anything even implement MIX groupchats?

@adx tigase-server and BeagleIM/SiskinIM ;-)

I wild be at FrOSCon too so I hope there will be some kind of devroom in one way or another

Hello! Do we know of FOSS clients supporting [ephemeral messages](https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0466.html)?

john-machan: This was approved just recently and also there is a change that author wants to do already. So no. Too early still.

MSavoritias (fae,ve): unless there's a developer who's watching very carefully

does the server also have to exclude the message from the MAM (if the timer is expired) when sending a MAM request ✏

you can't do that

it is forbidden

you can replace it with a tombstone however

yeah a tombstone

so, treat it as a delayed-effect https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0424.html

there's a stickers XEP?

XMPP - There's a XEP for that!

techmetx11, was that a question?

> techmetx11 wrote: > there's a stickers XEP? Yes

We need a XEP that encodes whether a message contains a question or a surprised statement!

Wasn't there a XEP from before it was even called "stickers" ?

Obsolete now, but https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.html

> Zash wrote: > We need a XEP that encodes whether a message contains a question or a surprised statement! We have :D

But it was rejected

hmmm

now would there be a XEP for a marketplace

or video sharing

i don't think so

except the video sharing

don't think "marketplace" would be a XEP

There is no need for specifically video sharing. Just video streaming

Which there is

There were five or so attempts at MSN-style shared folders though.

Which might be that.

shared folders

hmm

XEP for nudging?

0224.

ITYM https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0132.html ;)

Or that yeah.

jonas’: Sent

thanks

pulkomandy If interested in displaying the revision history for outdated XEPs in the DOAP files, here's a patch (goes on top of the ones I sent earlier today)

https://xmpp.labs.navlost.eu/upload/4f883a857d1fd410d36f3b5a55395c7b1d631fe5/35mKMMMfUu7CtNlG0SCSmnUHccl31EBLKyl9pNP1/0001-Add-a-popup-with-the-change-history-for-outdated-XEP.patch

thanks, not much time for that today (trying to port a C compiler to a new architecture for a project I should finish this weekend for my vacations :p) but I'll try to have a look

Nae bother. Sample output here btw: https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap/poezio.html https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap/movim.html

Needless to say, the styling needs some love.

Good luck with the compiler 👍

nav, nice, I'd really like to see that happen! I can work on styling the elements when these changes are merged :)

Link Mauve: Broken link in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0453.html#rules (https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/data/README.rst 404s)

Ah, wurstsalat broke it in de3d82527a7b3fda3b0cf89e147a14fde801a472.

In the move to hugo.

Did anyone else have any issue with it? Otherwise I’ll probably ask to advance it soon and gather actual experience with it.

nav, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1199

Thanks, I tried to find the link but couldn't.

https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/tools/README.rst

May I point out that it's missing a _components_ section? It's kind of an important part of XMPP. ☺

Feel free to contribute that, I’m going to sleep. :)

> and then make a Pull Request on GitHub. Seriously? Using a GAFAM product for what's supposed to be an open protocol? Process-wise that's a bit substandard.

No, you can use the mailing list if you prefer so.

Send a patch over there, or to the editor IIRC.

A catalogue of machine readable software definitions is a great idea though. Enables lots of interesting things, such as comparing XEP support across products, finding the popularity (or otherwise) of different XEPs, etc.

Roger. It'd be good to make those contribution workflows more explicit though? I don't recall them being documented, maybe I didn't look in the right places.

(I'm working on an XMPP based way to submit Git patches to repositories anyway, should work with popular forges + email)

Have you talked with goffi already? I think he was working on such things in the past.

I recall a talk by someone about this, which was kind of the inspiration.

Is goffi here?

I'll see about hitting him up during the day. Bonne nuit !