jdev - 2022-08-09

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  300. nav

    A couple of patches to the DOAP XSLT.

  301. nav

    Only the first patch is important-ish

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  303. nav

    The others should apply relatively cleanly in a pick and choose basis, i.e., if wanting to leave some of it out. In particular the last one.

  304. nav


  305. nav


  306. nav

    (that one is a bit of a judgment call, but I figure in production the CSS may not always be exactly one level up)

  307. nav


  308. nav

    The main change there is that XEP number and title are inside a single <a href=""> as opposed to two.

  309. nav


  310. nav


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  312. nav

    jonas’ About https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/tools/extract-metadata.py – I'm confused as to why it converts the XML to text and then back to XML.

  313. nav

    That causes loss of info: mixed content, entities, directives (and comments) will not be translated.

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  315. jonas’

    that's intentional to provide a fixed schema for xeplist.xml

  316. jonas’

    (and other tools in the directory need plain text)

  317. nav

    For email and such?

  318. nav

    Take for instance the abstract of XEP-0099 (https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0099.xml)

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  321. jonas’

    is that not handled correctly?

  322. nav

    What's also bizarre is that some XML entities are translated and others aren't. Take for instance <remark/> on XEP-0234 (correctly translates an em dash, versus XEP-0106 (missing dashes).

  323. jonas’

    nice, it's indeed not

  324. jonas’

    then I need to exchange minidom for something saner

  325. nav

    Nope, it's missing a couple of words.

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  330. jonas’

    but I recall that that caused issues with our .ent and .dtd files -.-

  331. nav

    Yeah I would expect so.

  332. nav

    Why not run the output through a proper HTML→plain text converter?

  333. jonas’

    because it's not HTML?

  334. jonas’

    (which output, anyway?)

  335. jonas’

    if anything, extract-metadata.py should probably be an XSL file…

  336. nav

    Technically not, but it looks like it should do the job. I'm not talking about the entire XML, obs ☺ but rather the mixed content that you'd like to be pure text.

  337. nav

    For instance <abstract/>, <remark/> and so on, where people sometimes use markup.

  338. nav

    Yeah, I did write an XSLT stylesheet that creates a xeplist.xml, that's how I found the differences.

  339. nav

    I should have a diff file somewhere…

  340. jonas’

    oh, interesting

  341. jonas’

    I'd take that I guess.

  342. nav

    …I'll generate one quickly

  343. jonas’

    no I mean, the xsl I'd take

  344. jonas’

    as a pull request or whatever

  345. nav


  346. nav

    > no I mean, the xsl I'd take Yeah I understood that 😁

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  348. nav

    Maybe take a look at the diff first see if there is anything that might cause issues downstream?

  349. nav

    …which there probably will, as I see that the content is used for emails, right?

  350. nav

    but that aspect of things could probably be addressed by running the content going into the emails through an HTML → text converter.

  351. nav

    …or just accept that some spurious markup is going to show up.

  352. nav

    Anyway, I'll prepare a quick patch and you can play with it.

  353. nav

    The background to this is that I was wanting to add the entire revision history to xeplist.xml

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  404. Millesimus

    No xmpp dev room at FrOSCon '22?

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  407. Ge0rG

    Millesimus: it looks like there'll be a stand at least

  408. Millesimus

    Ge0rG: Ah yes, Dino has a stand.

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  411. nav

    jonas’ Diff against xsf/xeps master:

  412. nav


  413. nav


  414. nav


  415. jonas’

    nav, any chance to put that in a github PR?

  416. nav


  417. jonas’

    or at least as emails to editor@

  418. jonas’

    or at least as emails to editor@xmpp.org

  419. jonas’

    otherwise I'll lose track

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  421. Ge0rG might suddenly appear at FrOSCon as well

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  429. adx

    do i understand correctly that the roster is for storing user JIDs only and bookmarks are for the groupchats?

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  431. jonas’

    adx, yes

  432. jonas’

    storing groupchat JIDs in the roster is going to cause fun

  433. jonas’

    unless you're using MIX, then it's both likely to cause fun, but also the standard way of doing things

  434. adx

    hmm, fun you say... 🙂

  435. adx

    yeah, I was talking about MUCs

  436. adx

    does anything even implement MIX groupchats?

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  464. Wojtek

    @adx tigase-server and BeagleIM/SiskinIM ;-)

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  509. pulkomandy

    I wild be at FrOSCon too so I hope there will be some kind of devroom in one way or another

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  539. john-machan

    Hello! Do we know of FOSS clients supporting [ephemeral messages](https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0466.html)?

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  541. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    john-machan: This was approved just recently and also there is a change that author wants to do already. So no. Too early still.

  542. techmetx11

    MSavoritias (fae,ve): unless there's a developer who's watching very carefully

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  548. techmetx11

    does the server also have to exclude the message from the MAM when sending?

  549. techmetx11

    does the server also have to exclude the message from the MAM (if the timer is expired) when sending a MAM request

  550. Zash

    you can't do that

  551. Zash

    it is forbidden

  552. Zash

    you can replace it with a tombstone however

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  554. techmetx11

    yeah a tombstone

  555. Zash

    so, treat it as a delayed-effect https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0424.html

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  558. techmetx11

    there's a stickers XEP?

  559. Zash

    XMPP - There's a XEP for that!

  560. Zash

    techmetx11, was that a question?

  561. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    > techmetx11 wrote: > there's a stickers XEP? Yes

  562. Zash

    We need a XEP that encodes whether a message contains a question or a surprised statement!

  563. Zash

    Wasn't there a XEP from before it was even called "stickers" ?

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  565. Zash

    Obsolete now, but https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.html

  566. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    > Zash wrote: > We need a XEP that encodes whether a message contains a question or a surprised statement! We have :D

  567. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    But it was rejected

  568. techmetx11


  569. techmetx11

    now would there be a XEP for a marketplace

  570. techmetx11

    or video sharing

  571. techmetx11

    i don't think so

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  574. techmetx11

    except the video sharing

  575. Zash

    don't think "marketplace" would be a XEP

  576. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    There is no need for specifically video sharing. Just video streaming

  577. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    Which there is

  578. Link Mauve

    There were five or so attempts at MSN-style shared folders though.

  579. Link Mauve

    Which might be that.

  580. techmetx11

    shared folders

  581. techmetx11


  582. techmetx11

    XEP for nudging?

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  584. Link Mauve


  585. Zash

    ITYM https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0132.html ;)

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  587. Link Mauve

    Or that yeah.

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  608. nav

    jonas’: Sent

  609. jonas’


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  618. nav

    pulkomandy If interested in displaying the revision history for outdated XEPs in the DOAP files, here's a patch (goes on top of the ones I sent earlier today)

  619. nav


  620. pulkomandy

    thanks, not much time for that today (trying to port a C compiler to a new architecture for a project I should finish this weekend for my vacations :p) but I'll try to have a look

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  623. nav

    Nae bother. Sample output here btw: https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap/poezio.html https://labs.navlost.eu/pub/doap/movim.html

  624. nav

    Needless to say, the styling needs some love.

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  626. nav

    Good luck with the compiler 👍

  627. wurstsalat

    nav, nice, I'd really like to see that happen! I can work on styling the elements when these changes are merged :)

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  707. nav

    Link Mauve: Broken link in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0453.html#rules (https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/data/README.rst 404s)

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  709. Link Mauve

    Ah, wurstsalat broke it in de3d82527a7b3fda3b0cf89e147a14fde801a472.

  710. Link Mauve

    In the move to hugo.

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  713. Link Mauve

    Did anyone else have any issue with it? Otherwise I’ll probably ask to advance it soon and gather actual experience with it.

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  715. Link Mauve

    nav, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1199

  716. nav

    Thanks, I tried to find the link but couldn't.

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  718. nav


  719. nav

    May I point out that it's missing a _components_ section? It's kind of an important part of XMPP. ☺

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  722. Link Mauve

    Feel free to contribute that, I’m going to sleep. :)

  723. nav

    > and then make a Pull Request on GitHub. Seriously? Using a GAFAM product for what's supposed to be an open protocol? Process-wise that's a bit substandard.

  724. Link Mauve

    No, you can use the mailing list if you prefer so.

  725. Link Mauve

    Send a patch over there, or to the editor IIRC.

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  728. nav

    A catalogue of machine readable software definitions is a great idea though. Enables lots of interesting things, such as comparing XEP support across products, finding the popularity (or otherwise) of different XEPs, etc.

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  730. nav

    Roger. It'd be good to make those contribution workflows more explicit though? I don't recall them being documented, maybe I didn't look in the right places.

  731. nav

    (I'm working on an XMPP based way to submit Git patches to repositories anyway, should work with popular forges + email)

  732. Link Mauve

    Have you talked with goffi already? I think he was working on such things in the past.

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  737. nav

    I recall a talk by someone about this, which was kind of the inspiration.

  738. nav

    Is goffi here?

  739. nav

    I'll see about hitting him up during the day. Bonne nuit !

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