jdev - 2022-08-11


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  250. flow nav, assuming that "that" is what I think it is, then yes
  251. flow I've left a comment
  252. flow I've left a comment on https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/1173
  253. nav flow: 👍 – Good point about the versions. Would versioned XMLs + symlink to latest address some of the drawbacks?
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  269. flow nav some yes, but the main problem is that if you refer to a XEP of e.g. version 1.2.1, then you most likely actually want to refer to 1.2 instead
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  271. flow I think ideally XEP versions are coupled with the XEPs namespace (if any), and minor versions of XEP are increment on namespace change
  272. flow but I am not aware that we have such a policy
  273. flow ideally it would be easy to establish one
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  275. Zash Does the XEP on versioned namespaces say anything on that?
  276. flow Zash, not sure, but IIRC the other XEP mentions that the XEP version should be raised when the XEP status changes from experimental to stable
  277. flow which would be not ideal, because we can't couple XEP versions to the XEP state *and* to the XEPs namespace
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  285. Kev We can't couple it to the XEP's namespace anyway, because XEPs have several namespaces, deliberately independent.
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  287. flow some XEPs have that
  288. flow I guess bumping the, probably minor version, of a XEP once any namespace of ther XEP is bumped would work
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  290. flow the point is, as soon as any namespace the XEP uses is bumped, the XEP is not longer the same XEP as before. and if you want stable references, which is always what you want, then you should take that into consideration
  291. flow and we as bibliography providing entity should ensure that it is possible that this is accounted for
  292. Kev Any change to a namespace forces a version bump of the XEP.
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  294. flow who forces the bump? i may have read something like that in some procedure XEP, but I am not sure. and what kind of version bump are we talking about? major version?
  295. Kev Major is only bumped on status change.
  296. flow which is kind of odd
  297. Kev But also makes sense.
  298. flow just because the status changed doesn't mean that it is a different XEP
  299. flow I don't think I aggree that a major version bump on xep status change is sensible
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  301. Zash It follows some kind of SemVer, right?
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  303. flow "You need to implement XEP-0123 version 1.0" "oh, damn, I only implemented XEP-0123 Version 1.0"
  304. flow "ahh wait, it's the exact same protocol and XEP"
  305. Zash What's even the problem here?
  306. Kev Zash: "some kind"
  307. Kev 0 - experimental, 1 - draft, 2 - final
  308. Kev For x
  309. Kev For y, every change is breaking.
  310. Kev For z, no change is breaking.
  311. flow Zash, I write an paper which references XEP-0123
  312. flow but without mentioning the XEPs version, a future reader may look at a totally different XEP
  313. flow take OMEMO as a prime example
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  316. Zash "At the time of this writing, the latest version of XEP-0123 is 0.3" in a footnote?
  317. flow Zash, sure, but then my example above
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  319. flow "You need to implement XEP-0123 version 2.0" "oh, damn, I only implemented XEP-0123 Version 1.0" "ahh wait, it's the exact same protocol and XEP"
  320. flow (now with fixed versions ;))
  321. flow + we don't have stable links to versioned XEPs
  322. flow which would be kinda nice to have
  323. Zash I think that's just something you have to deal with.
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  325. flow "that" being?
  326. Zash RFC style documents set in stone forever is nice, until a change is needed.
  327. Zash flow, the "living specification" thing
  328. flow I think it would be possilbe to hit a sweet spot between what we do know and RFC-style-set-in-stone documents
  329. flow that is, publish every version of the XEP + don't bump versions of XEP status changes
  330. flow xmpp.org/extensions/0123/version/1.0
  331. flow and xmpp.org/extensions/0123/namespace/1 for single namespace XEPs
  332. Zash The version changes with typo corrections too.
  333. flow and xmpp.org/extensions/0123/diff/by-version/1.0/1.3
  334. flow and of course, get rid of the stupid numbers and use the unique short names of xeps
  335. flow xmpp.org/extensions/0123/mam/version/1.0
  336. flow xmpp.org/extensions/mam/version/1.0
  337. flow Zash, that's perfectly fine, versions are cheap
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  399. nav > and of course, get rid of the stupid numbers and use the unique short names of xeps Numbers are convenient.
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  401. nav Same as with RFCs, we tend to remember them by number, for the ones we use more often.
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  403. nav Also, I often short links are best. Both because of quoting in code comments and because they're easier to type.
  404. nav As for the issue of citations, just assign a unique number (such as a DOI) to each published version and cite that.
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  406. nav s/unique number/unique identifier/
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  431. flow I certainly don't remember XEPs by numbers but by short names. XEP CSI, what number was it again?
  432. flow I now the numbers of a few XEPs, but I certainly know more XEPs by their short name
  433. flow I don't think there is a reason to use a number instead of the short name in most places
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  450. Kev I think it's a great idea to use shortnames in references. Particularly because XEP numbers are immutable, and that's just a bore in a reference. Mutable things like shortnames work much better.
  451. flow I don't think of shortnames as mutable, granted, not sure if this is specified
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