jdev - 2022-08-13

hello

are there any XMPP clients that enforce OMEMO?

Profanity and conversations and forks have an option to do so

MSavoritias (fae,ve): they block any non-OMEMO messages?

They will basically make every 1:1 chat and private group chat you are in to be omemo. Which makes everybody forced to use omemo with you. Thats the idea at least. Xmpp being a federated system clients may ignore it

last time I checked conversations accepted inbound unencrypted messages just fine

jonas’: I think I noticed the same

(which is good, IMO) ✏

is it possible to create a client that enforces all conversations to use OMEMO over Tor?

no

clients can not enforce anything on other clients

if you want to enforce stuff, you should probably look at server mods

meaning only users of that app will communicate over omemo/tor

r4v3r23, what do you want to happen when I send you a message not using OMEMO?

Do you want to be able to read it to get the chance to tell me to enable OMEMO, or do you want it to plain not be shown to you?

reject it. only allow comms using OMEMO

forcing OMEMO when sending your messages is cool, but rejecting all messages that aren't OMEMO-encrypted is stupid

why?

I'm not asking if its stupid. is it possible?

No because you dont control everybodys clients

yes

sometimes you have to tell them to enable OMEMO

and they'll probably happily do it for you :)

r4v3r23, it depends what your goal is

if a user sends you a unencrypted message, and your client simply does not show it to you

my goal is OMEMO to OMEMO chats only

for outsiders a unencrypted message with a specific content was still sent to your device and was received there

with no option to have it disabled

then ask them to enable OMEMO :)

r4v3r23, of course you can write your own client that does not allow to disable omemo

still you would need to force people to use it, and you basically cannot find out if they dont

yes

if your goal is, "I want all communication encrypted" you dont need omemo

simply set up your own server, register an account for all users you want to chat with, and force TLS connections on the server

then you can be sure all traffic from all accounts to other accounts on the same server is encrypted, and no client has a possibility to circumvent that

and if I wanted to build an app that any one can use?

r4v3r23, then you dan do that too, but it will obviously cause problems if you want to federate with other implementations outside of your control

like an XMPP version of signal

why not use signal?

flow: it wouldn't, it would just be for users of that app

you want to create a walled garden messenger service

why not use one of the existing ones?

I think there a very valid reasons for not using signal

such as, phone number requirement

there is no need for you to guess what potential reasons could be to not use signal, it was a question to r4v3r23 why he doesnt use it

seems he needs a app that always is E2E encrypted, does not support unencrypted communication, and all users should use the same app

until now all boxes are checked for signal :)

r4v3r23's questions seemed to be more from a developers perspective than a users one

I don't like signals phone number requirement

and prefer onion to onion addresses

i wonder, should there be an XEP for requesting the other party to enable encryption

:) I have to reject all the time :)

:)

OMEMO is not working for me.

omemo just works for me

r4v3r23, i would start with forking some mobile client like cnversations, add all your requirements, like TOR connection, and always OMEMO

yeah that's what I think I'll do

then you need to setup servers, and reject all communication that does not come from your app

and last step you need to convince users to download your app

But then non-e2ee messages still go from normal users client to normal userser server and from normal users server to r4v3r23 server without e2ee and are only dropped at r4v3r23 server.

> and reject all communication that does not come from your app

and his app does only register accounts on his server

Still people can write from normal clients using normal servers as long as s2s is not disabled.

no, because his app does only connect to his server

Building a silo like WhatsApp does you can of course enforce everything.

and the server accepts only connection from the app

so there is no s2s

Ah, I only got the c2s limitation and the implied disabling of s2s was not clear to me.

But I really dislike the idea of building silos. Rather tell the people to use omemo when they don't than simply blocking communication.

Wasn't there a terrible server which didn't deliver messages without otr? ✏

i think it's better to tell people to use omemo

i mean you only do it once per user

after that it should stay enabled

https://modules.prosody.im/mod_require_otr.html mod_require_omemo when?

Martin: yeah, I'm basically looking for a way to automate the ignoring of non-OMEMO messages

I don't understand why you would want to just ignore them

That will just lead people to think you are ignoring their messages, and you won't even know they tried to contact you

When i change my nickname in a MUC

does the MUC Service on sending the new presence for the new nick, include all the presence attributes like show and status?

or better said, if i include show/status in my nickname change presence, then i can depend on it beeing broadcasted also for the new nickname presence?

what's more common in the wild rn: legacy bookmarks or the pep ones?

basphemic question, right? 🙂

not that I dont like it 🙂