jdev - 2022-08-13


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  221. r4v3r23 hello
  222. r4v3r23 are there any XMPP clients that enforce OMEMO?
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  224. MSavoritias (fae,ve) Profanity and conversations and forks have an option to do so
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  227. r4v3r23 MSavoritias (fae,ve): they block any non-OMEMO messages?
  228. MSavoritias (fae,ve) They will basically make every 1:1 chat and private group chat you are in to be omemo. Which makes everybody forced to use omemo with you. Thats the idea at least. Xmpp being a federated system clients may ignore it
  229. jonas’ last time I checked conversations accepted inbound unencrypted messages just fine
  230. r4v3r23 jonas’: I think I noticed the same
  231. jonas’ (which is good)
  232. jonas’ (which is good, IMO)
  233. r4v3r23 is it possible to create a client that enforces all conversations to use OMEMO over Tor?
  234. lovetox no
  235. lovetox clients can not enforce anything on other clients
  236. lovetox if you want to enforce stuff, you should probably look at server mods
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  238. r4v3r23 meaning only users of that app will communicate over omemo/tor
  239. Link Mauve r4v3r23, what do you want to happen when I send you a message not using OMEMO?
  240. Link Mauve Do you want to be able to read it to get the chance to tell me to enable OMEMO, or do you want it to plain not be shown to you?
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  245. r4v3r23 reject it. only allow comms using OMEMO
  246. techmetx11 forcing OMEMO when sending your messages is cool, but rejecting all messages that aren't OMEMO-encrypted is stupid
  247. r4v3r23 why?
  248. r4v3r23 I'm not asking if its stupid. is it possible?
  249. MSavoritias (fae,ve) No because you dont control everybodys clients
  250. techmetx11 yes
  251. techmetx11 sometimes you have to tell them to enable OMEMO
  252. techmetx11 and they'll probably happily do it for you :)
  253. lovetox r4v3r23, it depends what your goal is
  254. lovetox if a user sends you a unencrypted message, and your client simply does not show it to you
  255. r4v3r23 my goal is OMEMO to OMEMO chats only
  256. lovetox for outsiders a unencrypted message with a specific content was still sent to your device and was received there
  257. r4v3r23 with no option to have it disabled
  258. techmetx11 then ask them to enable OMEMO :)
  259. lovetox r4v3r23, of course you can write your own client that does not allow to disable omemo
  260. lovetox still you would need to force people to use it, and you basically cannot find out if they dont
  261. techmetx11 yes
  262. lovetox if your goal is, "I want all communication encrypted" you dont need omemo
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  265. lovetox simply set up your own server, register an account for all users you want to chat with, and force TLS connections on the server
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  267. lovetox then you can be sure all traffic from all accounts to other accounts on the same server is encrypted, and no client has a possibility to circumvent that
  268. r4v3r23 and if I wanted to build an app that any one can use?
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  270. flow r4v3r23, then you dan do that too, but it will obviously cause problems if you want to federate with other implementations outside of your control
  271. r4v3r23 like an XMPP version of signal
  272. lovetox why not use signal?
  273. r4v3r23 flow: it wouldn't, it would just be for users of that app
  274. lovetox you want to create a walled garden messenger service
  275. lovetox why not use one of the existing ones?
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  277. flow I think there a very valid reasons for not using signal
  278. techmetx11 such as, phone number requirement
  279. lovetox there is no need for you to guess what potential reasons could be to not use signal, it was a question to r4v3r23 why he doesnt use it
  280. lovetox seems he needs a app that always is E2E encrypted, does not support unencrypted communication, and all users should use the same app
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  282. lovetox until now all boxes are checked for signal :)
  283. flow r4v3r23's questions seemed to be more from a developers perspective than a users one
  284. r4v3r23 I don't like signals phone number requirement
  285. r4v3r23 and prefer onion to onion addresses
  286. techmetx11 i wonder, should there be an XEP for requesting the other party to enable encryption
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  288. Stefan :) I have to reject all the time :)
  289. techmetx11 :)
  290. Stefan OMEMO is not working for me.
  291. techmetx11 omemo just works for me
  292. lovetox r4v3r23, i would start with forking some mobile client like cnversations, add all your requirements, like TOR connection, and always OMEMO
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  295. r4v3r23 yeah that's what I think I'll do
  296. lovetox then you need to setup servers, and reject all communication that does not come from your app
  297. lovetox and last step you need to convince users to download your app
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  300. Martin But then non-e2ee messages still go from normal users client to normal userser server and from normal users server to r4v3r23 server without e2ee and are only dropped at r4v3r23 server.
  301. lovetox > and reject all communication that does not come from your app
  302. lovetox and his app does only register accounts on his server
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  304. Martin Still people can write from normal clients using normal servers as long as s2s is not disabled.
  305. lovetox no, because his app does only connect to his server
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  307. Martin Building a silo like WhatsApp does you can of course enforce everything.
  308. lovetox and the server accepts only connection from the app
  309. lovetox so there is no s2s
  310. Martin Ah, I only got the c2s limitation and the implied disabling of s2s was not clear to me.
  311. Martin But I really dislike the idea of building silos. Rather tell the people to use omemo when they don't than simply blocking communication.
  312. Martin Wasn't there a terrible server which didn't deliver messages without otr.
  313. Martin Wasn't there a terrible server which didn't deliver messages without otr?
  314. techmetx11 i think it's better to tell people to use omemo
  315. techmetx11 i mean you only do it once per user
  316. techmetx11 after that it should stay enabled
  317. Martin https://modules.prosody.im/mod_require_otr.html mod_require_omemo when?
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  319. r4v3r23 Martin: yeah, I'm basically looking for a way to automate the ignoring of non-OMEMO messages
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  324. MattJ I don't understand why you would want to just ignore them
  325. MattJ That will just lead people to think you are ignoring their messages, and you won't even know they tried to contact you
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  328. lovetox When i change my nickname in a MUC
  329. lovetox does the MUC Service on sending the new presence for the new nick, include all the presence attributes like show and status?
  330. lovetox or better said, if i include show/status in my nickname change presence, then i can depend on it beeing broadcasted also for the new nickname presence?
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  506. adx what's more common in the wild rn: legacy bookmarks or the pep ones?
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  510. emus basphemic question, right? 🙂
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  515. emus not that I dont like it 🙂
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