jdev - 2022-12-15

XSF Announcement We are interested for volunteers to support automation of our tooling to manage the standard documents and allow a more efficient processing of editorial work! Overview: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Editor+Tooling%22 Contact: editor@muc.xmpp.org Reach out if you are interested or have questions! This is based on: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board-Meeting-2022-12-14 Spread the word: https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/109519363570575768 https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1603473596105560079

hey all! is that a valid JID? -\20̗̀\20cucu\20𓆩♡𓆪\20̖́-#2332@discord.localhost/slidge

Prosody votes no

prosody the software or prosody the humans behind it? ^^

cause it sure seems to me like the software doesn't mind the horrorshow that this JID is

wait, sorry, wrong string syntax

Prosody votes unknown

Apparently here's what RFC7564 says:

prosody's OK, clients are more or less happy with it. movim and conversation don't particularly mind. gajim is in denial, just wont even mention anything in its logs, understandably. probably in shock.

o Code points traditionally used as letters and numbers in writing > systems, i.e., the LetterDigits ("A") category first defined in > [RFC5892] and listed here under Section 9.1. > > o Code points in the range U+0021 through U+007E, i.e., the > (printable) ASCII7 ("K") category defined under Section 9.11. > These code points are "grandfathered" into PRECIS and thus are > valid even if they would otherwise be disallowed according to the > property-based rules specified in the next section.

Messed up the quoting but anyways...

Check what Unicode version U+131A9 and U+131AA is in

Those are rejected by Prosody in strict mode

mmm some day I should try to understand some of these words

Prosody lives in the magical past where Unicode 3.2 is the latest one

ok, apart from the "validity" of the JID, it's a bad idea to use these, isn't it?

RFC7622 refers to RFC7613, which in turn refers to RFC7654, but essentially the local part is any UTF-8 character in the Letter class?

Which doesn't include hearts with wings

Heh

the heart with wings is actually not the worse part. unescaped with rules frop XEP-0106, this is what it looks like: - ̗̀ cucu 𓆩♡𓆪 ̖́-

Cute1!!11

Based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode#Versions it looks like Unicode 5.2

I actually find that it's some sort of piece of art. anyway these discord usernames are also case sensitive so it's probably looking for trouble to try and map them to jids directly. nicoco#1234@discord.example.com looks nicer than 1457984984684681681684@discord.example.com though

Yeeeeeeeeeah, good luck with that

Stuff the fancy thing in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0172.html and do Something™ for JIDs

XEP-0106 doesn't do anything for case sensitiveness right? I find nothing

that's already what I'm doing, but for a while I dreamt that "puppets" could have a nice looking JID. when PEP username is used, most clients just hide the JID though, so it's not that bad.

Usernames can change on Discord, right? Not user IDs though

JIDs can _never_ change

So it's likely better to not have the username in the JID

case sensitiveness is not adressed by xep-0106, which is in itself a good reason to forget the nice-looking JIDs

So '172 the fancy nicknames (it's existence is motivated by mutable fancy nicknames after all) and pray that clients mostly hide ugly JIDs from users :)

I had worked around it by keeping a map of lowercase to CaseSensitive usernames , and it worked for me though :) It only took a second person to try my thing and boom they broke it.

A XEP-0106 variant for arbitrary unicode might be useful in some cases tho...

For gateways specifically, I'd vote for keeping the JID typeable since it's much easier to map between XMPP and the legacy protocol if discovery fails on the XMPP side for whatever reason

Like those case sensitive Matrix IDs

what do you mean typeable?

overlap with keyboards?

oh right. was thinking types like in "type system", and didn't get the point

Nah just something you can either write or copy-paste

Networks like Discord don't care so much because discovery works well in most cases and the focus isn't 1:1 chats anyways

(Which don't exist in Discord AFAIK, 1:1 chats are modeled as group chats with 2 participants)

discord integers ID are not trivial to get from the official discord clients though, unlike username#1234

but I guess we should use jabber:iq:gateway for that. such a pleasant surprise to see it implemented in cheogram

I thought you could hover over a person's avatar and get it?

deuill, not the same as being easy for "bots" or whatever to get

Oh right yeah, that's where discovery comes in, or ad-hoc commands for searching etc.

"I'd vote for keeping the JID typeable" < on which layout with which IME?

I just tried and no, the ID is never exposed just the "username#4865" thing - at least I couldn't find it

ASCII 4 life

Westerners :)

Land of the lowest common denominator! Obviously having sane JIDs wouldn't matter if discovery is guaranteed to work, but it doesn't always work and sometimes you have to resort to copypasta

Though I'm Greek and am still deathly afraid of IDN

Don't make me write a witty retort in runes on a 90kg stone and have it delivered to you via trebuchet

ascii is not "common" at all. If you want the common denominator you get… whitespace? Maybe?

or maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_writing_systems#List_of_writing_systems_by_adoption

Nice, so XMPP can go back to ASCII only and the Cyrillic users can just use telegram, problem solved