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pep.
13:36:05
singpolyma, poking here as you're not in movim@, I'm curious what's the use for 0033 in Movim.
pep.
13:37:23
Or this isn't MUC-related at all?
pep.
13:37:38
Just some unspecced-group thing?
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singpolyma
13:42:18
It could be used in MUC, though it's more common to just put the jid in presence and make the client look it up that way. We do use it outside of MUC context as well yes
singpolyma
13:42:39
For the email and MMS bridges (MMS is just email anyway so these are similar)
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nicoco
14:07:22
Is this correct? (not a quizz, just want to make sure I get it right ^^)
> I am a pubsub server; I should keep track of which event I've sent to which entity. When an entity comes online, I should only send them events that I haven't sent them previously.
Related question: how bad is it if I send all my pubsub events everytime an entity comes online, not keeping track of whether I've already sent them the same event?
(in practice, this is about PEP avatars (metadata) and nicknames)
MattJ
14:09:50
Only send the last published item
MattJ
14:10:05
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0163.html#notify-when
MattJ
14:10:11
See those two sections
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nicoco
14:11:55
the last item, no matter if I've already sent it before? xxx@xxx/dinoYY comes online 50 times in a row, I sent the pep nickname 50 times, that's OK?
I guess this makes sense because I have no guarantee that dinoYY is actually the same client, and also it may have cleared its local cache between two "getting online" events. ✎
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nicoco
14:12:02
the last item, no matter if I've already sent it before? xxx@xxx/dinoYY comes online 50 times in a row, I sens the pep nickname 50 times, that's OK?
I guess this makes sense because I have no guarantee that dinoYY is actually the same client, and also it may have cleared its local cache between two "getting online" events. ✏
MattJ
14:12:56
Yes, you send it anyway
MattJ
14:13:25
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0312.html is an optimization for that, but nobody uses it
nicoco
14:14:17
Thanks MattJ, I think this the section I needed to read indeed. XEP-0312 is the type of optimisation I feared was part of pubsub or pep.
Cool! Less keeping track of stuff, and easier to comply to the spec than I feared :)
MattJ
14:14:35
:)
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pep.
14:20:12
singpolyma, could be used in MUC but server/component-side, no?
singpolyma
14:20:48
You mean it would need component support? Yes
pep.
14:20:53
I mean the benefits of 0033 to me are the possibility to send one instead of multiple payloads
pep.
14:21:04
Movim doesn't need to be exposed to 033 at all
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singpolyma
15:30:06
0033 always has a server and a client component
singpolyma
15:30:43
The client sees who the other recipients of the message are and what the ofrom/replyto/replyroom etc addresses are
singpolyma
15:31:31
Very similar to SMTP, which is why it maps so well for SMTP and MMS gateways
pep.
15:33:28
hmm ok that's not what I had in mind for MUC usage. I would have had the component put 0033 for users on the same server and have the server split it
pep.
15:33:50
Which is why I was confused
singpolyma
15:34:01
Yes, sure, that is the server part
pep.
15:34:14
Well this doesn't require client support
singpolyma
15:34:20
But the client still gets the context of who the stanza was delivered to
pep.
15:34:36
Which client
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Zash
15:34:43
ones understanding '33
singpolyma
15:34:45
It doesn't require it if your client UX doesn't care about any of the other addresses sure
pep.
15:35:07
singpolyma, well in MUC "it knows" already
singpolyma
15:35:44
Sure, in MUC mostly the client would only care about ofrom or replyto stuff likely
singpolyma
15:35:55
But this is down to the UX of the client dev
pep.
15:36:08
Yes. Actually disclosing who else on their server is receiving the message is probably some kind of leak
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singpolyma
15:36:48
You mean if you used 0033 for groupchat from semianon? Yeah, that wouldn't work
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pep.
15:37:17
Well yes it would, for the use-case I said. Just that the component needs to ensure server support
pep.
15:37:27
The client never needs to know 0033 was used
singpolyma
15:37:32
It would not because it would leak, as you say
pep.
15:37:43
I also said the server would split it
singpolyma
15:37:57
Unless you write an extension to 0033 to tell the server not to pass the 0033 payload along
pep.
15:38:03
Send one message from the MUC to serverX, deliver 10 messages to serverX users
pep.
15:38:06
Yes this
singpolyma
15:38:14
Sure, that's something new then
pep.
15:38:52
You may have said it in what you just said, but I still don't understand the other use-cases
pep.
15:39:25
SMS/MMS ok but that's because there's no protocol support so it's just informational I guess
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singpolyma
15:39:45
So, for example, the one I have in my movim PR is just ofrom. That is to say, "this is the jid that really sent this message, I'm just a relay"
pep.
15:40:28
The original JID being.. +0123456789@gateway?
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singpolyma
15:40:56
For an MMS case, yes. Or for SMTP email\40server@gateway
pep.
15:43:35
Actually my use-case for optimizing MUC traffic is already specified, with @type='bcc'
singpolyma
15:43:40
Or in a MUC case the true jid of the sender. Etc etc
singpolyma
15:43:52
pep.: oh right, I forgot BCC was speccd
pep.
15:44:16
Why would one leak their own JID voluntarily in a MUC
singpolyma
15:44:36
It would be a non-anon MUC obviously
pep.
15:44:57
So duplicating info given by MUC?
singpolyma
15:45:02
Or, probably. I mean, I always want my JID attached. I would leak in semi anon if it was a option
Zash
15:45:23
small private group chat without a MUC component
singpolyma
15:45:29
The info would be given by the MUC I would assume. It's just not the timeline we ended up in and we use presence for that instead of 0033
pep.
15:45:36
Zash, yeah, but that's not MUC
pep.
15:45:41
And yeah that's a use-case
singpolyma
15:45:47
Zash: sure, that's a possible use case but needs more than ofrom
pep.
15:46:18
Does prosody support 0033 cc? ✎
pep.
15:46:22
Does prosody support 0033 bcc? ✏
singpolyma
15:46:33
There's a community mod iirc
Zash
15:46:35
https://modules.prosody.im/xeps.html#xep0033
pep.
15:46:52
Ok
pep.
15:48:20
https://hg.prosody.im/prosody-modules/file/f66a08f208ad/mod_addressing/mod_addressing.lua "-- IQ stanzas makes no sense" why?
pep.
15:48:34
You can still split the stanza at the server level
pep.
15:48:57
You've gained multiple stanza over one stream (component->server)
Zash
15:49:03
No, does not make sense
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Zash
15:49:38
Multiple child tags of iq are illegal. Only one request and one response is allowed.
pep.
15:50:55
hmm
pep.
15:51:02
That's meh
Zash
15:51:42
'33 violates symmetry enough as it is
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singpolyma
15:56:25
0033 for iq I'm not sure how replies would work. All with the same I'd? ✎
singpolyma
15:56:34
0033 for iq I'm not sure how replies would work. All with the same ID? ✏
pep.
15:57:13
singpolyma, 0033 would have been stripped so the recipient would just sent to the original sender, the MUC
pep.
15:57:24
But yeah I forgot the one-child constraint of iq
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pep.
15:57:49
send*
Zash
15:58:04
singpolyma, how do *errors* work with 33?
singpolyma
15:58:37
Zash: from the client you mean?
pep.
15:58:47
I'm not sure what's so complicated. 0033 is just an optimisation over one or multiple streams no? :/
Zash
15:58:53
one of the CC's bounce. ????
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singpolyma
15:59:17
> one of the CC's bounce. ????
Would be the same as a normal non 33 . message ↺
singpolyma
15:59:30
from is the sender not the relay
singpolyma
15:59:41
Send error back to them directly
Zash
16:00:15
wait are you talking about using 33 to optimize 45?
singpolyma
16:00:25
pep. is
Zash
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missed that
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